Trade went very bad...need advise

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

aweful...

Okay, is this a REPLY this time?

Anyway, the geckos in that picture look absolutely HORRIBLE!!! Even the original pic from the kingsnake ad, the female looks thin, even for one in the height of breeding season. They should have never been sent out in that condition. The fact that MPI even allowed them to get that far gone is a testament to the fact they don't care.
As a sidenote on the DOA with a crushed head, that MAY not have necessarily been something Aaron/Gavin/Erin/Jimmy John-John did while packing. I have seen snakes and smaller geckos that have wedged their heads between a not-so-tight deli cup lid on their own before, and that MIGHT have happened with that one. But that is a big MIGHT.
So I am forced to repeat questions, Aaron/Gavin/Erin/John Jason Jingleheimerschmidt(hey, that's MY name too , did you receive the snakes and tortoises from David as he AND Airborne Express are saying? Or are they conspiring against you so he can keep those excellent and superb geckos you sent him for himself?
Haven't really seen you make another ANONYMOUS post(gee, what is that, like 5 times you posted with NO freakin' name?! RULES BUDDY!!!)to defend yourself since that little tidbit about the snakes being delivered was brought up. Where'd ya go? Run out to forget to buy crickets again?

Absolutely disgusting. MPIExotics and their owner Aaron/Gavin/Erin/ Jimmy John-John/whatever your NAME is, definitely bad guy(s) to deal with.

 

[HerpVenue]

David.
I will say again.
Yes those geckos are sick looking SPECIALLY the juveniles. The "breeders" look like they just had a clutch....so to them it can go either way. But the main thing is none of them should have been shipped. I agree with that.

The pictures.
Maybe I am blind. But I am not the only one who thinks the first picture you posted of the "breeder" look exactly like one of juveniles. Maybe I am wrong....but that is what it looks like to me

i don't care how many animals you have shipped through airborne my bill is 150 dollars.. but since your so sure if i prove to you your wrong will you pay the bill??

Wow...follow along
1) you just shipped. How can you have your bill already? That is super quick.
2) You say it was 150 and you also say it was 75 both ways. But how can it be 75 both ways when you have not received your snakes yet....
3) You paying 75 both ways should mean your snake shipment should be in your possesion. But according to you...they are not.

you are not as smart as you thing saying the things you are i have not at all tried to trick anyone and if you can't see that in the pics your either dumb or someone has paid you off

Saying I am dumb is okay. But saying I am paid off.....


I am not gonna argue the animal issue...They should not have been shipped. NO ifs and or butts.
My main thing is this $150 airborne bill. You should not have a bill already and your stuff was delivered yesterday.
So go ahead and show me that airborne bill

I may not be as smart as I think I am.
But I am not as dumb as you think I am.
Go ahead and show me that airborne bill that you received on a delivery that just got delivered yesterday. The delivery that is still incomplete at this point in time

 

[HerpVenue]

by the way...David.
my sincere and humble apologies for jumping and saying you tried to trick us. It was my fingers typing faster than my braind can process....but that is no excuse. Again my apologies.

 

[gila7150]

Ritchie,
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but l don't think he was saying that he already paid $150. I believe he meant that he had paid $75 and expected to be billed the same amount when they were shipped back to him.
Before I set up an account with Airborne Express, I paid cash when I dropped off the shipments. (so it is possible that he would already know the amount).
I also think it is very believable that his shipping bill was $75. I paid $61 once for shipping a few colubrids. (because I was stupid and used an over sized box). They charged me based on the dimensions of the box...not the weight. Normally a shipment this size costs me $30-40 with 10:30 delivery.
I can easily see how it could be $75 to ship 4 burmese pythons and 2 tortoises.

I have to respectfully disagree with you about the breeders looking like they just dropped a clutch. Their body weight is nowhere near what a healthy breeder's should be (even after laying eggs).

Could David have misspoke somewhere in this thread or even exaggerated something...sure. But it's pretty clear who the bad guy is in this deal and it's not David.

Chris Raden

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

not quite sure...

Ritchie,

I honestly don't see how you can say that the "breeders" can go "either way" as you put it. Laying a clutch of eggs does NOT turn a healthy gecko into jerky overnight. The animals pictured have been doing poorly for a long time.
The Airborne thing though is kind of wierd, but I have shipped Crested Geckos through Airborne that cost me $65 to ship to FL. I do not have an account, and they charged me an extra "driver" fee to pick up the package from my office. So it is possible that it cost him $75 to ship those animals one way. However, since they haven't come back to him, there would'nt be a return charge you're right.

 

[mpiexotics]

Answer for Seamus Haley

 What was the original deal? How many geckos of what ages and genders for how many of what snakes?
 The deal was for 4 younger, and 3 older female Blizzards. I ended up giving him 3 younger, and 4 older Blizzards. The snakes were 2 Albino Berms, 2 Reg Berms, and 2 Sucatas.
 Was there a stop shipment placed on the delivery of either package?

 According to Airborne Express customer survive, David put a stop on the box before 6:00 am my time, 9:00 his time. The package I sent him arrived at 9:49 his time. They load the trucks at 5:00am, so his box was already on the truck, and once it is on there they do not remove it from the truck until the driver scans delivers it or returns it to the station. The truck left for its deliveries at 8:08 am. At 11:37 the driver scanned the box for delivery and discovered the cancellation, and didn’t deliver.


 Were both packages delivered? What time?

 The package I sent him was delivered at 9:49 am his time. The package he sent me and then stopped was picked up by me at 5:00 PM my time. I had to track it down, and drive about 20 miles to get it. The only reason I tracked it down is because once I was informed that he had stopped shipment before receiving the box I sent him arrived at his house, and the fact that he sent me two photos of the same Gecko (The first claiming that it was dead, and the second claiming it was a sick breeder) I started thinking that he was trying to pull a fast one on me. I was also very surprised at how quickly he jumped on the forum without giving me a chance to do anything. I read the response and saw commits like – Burn the Guy --- Keep his Geckos --- Give me his Geckos --- Take his Geckos, and charge him for shipping. Things were getting out of control, and remember not once did I say that I wasn’t going to make things right by him. It never should have gone to this level. At this point he was holding all the cards, and it was looking like I was going to get burned. So I found out where that box was and got it. I was not going to get ripped off if I could help it. If you were in my boat you would want to protect yourself also.

 Do you both agree that the picture containing all seven animals is of the animals shipped?

 At this point I am not really sure what to think. I want to trust people, but with everything that has happened on this trade, I am at a loss. I think it is possible that I may have accidentally crushed one during packaging. I was talking on the phone when I was putting them in the shoe boxes maybe one had his head in the wrong place, and when I closed the lid it was crushed. I would have really had to put a lot of pressure on the lid to do that, I think I would have noticed, but weirder things have been known to happen. The animals I sent him were not sick animals. As with all packages I take photos beforehand for verification, and my photos are a lot more flattering than the ones I am seeing him post. They had fat reserves, and I sent him ones that I knew had laved eggs in the last 5-10 days. Granted they were not as nice as Kelly Hammocks’, but they were not as bad off as they are being presented by David.
The photo I have seen of the one he claims is a 12-gram breeder that looks awful.
None of the animals I sent looked that bad when I sent them. If that is truly my animal then I am at a loss for words because I wouldn’t send out an animal that is sick knowingly. I deal with a lot of Chameleons and have had awesome luck with delivery. I am not sure how a leopard gecko can go down hill that quickly. I have sold over 40 of the Blizzards in the last few weeks, and have yet to have one go sick, or die on my customers.

 How many geckos were DOA? Can you provide some proof of the number by providing e-mails that state a DOA number from the date of shipping?

 He is claiming that two were DOA. One froze to death, and one was crushed. At first I took his word about that, and was trying to fix the problem. Then he claims that one is very sick, and he wants to send everyone back, but must have forgot the photo he sent me a little earlier, well it is the same animal. I question him about this inconsistency, and I tell him that if he really wants to trade back I will do it. I indicate that I would like a photo of all seven, and would like to have him freeze and send me the DOA’s. When I have the animals in hand it is easy for me to verify that they are mine. Usually I would swap the animals out, but under the circumstances I felt that verification was in order. Something was not right. This is when he went to the forum, and all hell broke loose. I get an email telling me to go to the Forum because there is a post about me. At this point things really seem weird, and his box hasn’t arrived yet, so I place a trace on the box and find out that it was canceled. I am thinking that this is bizarre, and what is he trying to pull. This put me in a very strange position, and required that I act right away.

 Aren't Blizzards solid white all the time with funny eyes? I don't know gecko morphs all that well but those pictures look like Leusistics to me. I'm probably wrong but... Were the animals shipped blizzards or not?

 He was shipped Blizzards

 To finish it off I was just wondering if either of you think it's cruel that the word "Lisp" has an "S" in it. Because that doesn't seem right to me and it's been bothering me since someone mentioned it to me two weeks ago.

 That is very cruel. How is Cindy Brady going to say that?

 Thanks for the logical breakdown.

 I can provide references about myself from people you all know, to anyone who wants them.

Aaron Hammock

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

So Aaron, do you have the burms and sulcattas now in your possession? You didn't exactly make that clear in your post, and if I missed the part where you said, "yes I have the animals David was sending me in my possession" I apologize.
As far as Leopards going downhill that fast...THEY DON'T! The leopards in those pictures have been at the bottom of the hill for a while, they can only go further downhill by being dead.
But to Aaron's credit, those ARE blizzards. Unfortunately most blizzards are not white, but very often a shade of yellow or gray, even in healthy conditions.
But Aaron, a couple things about your timing are odd to me. You say he cancelled the shipment at 9 am, BEFORE getting the geckos. Why on earth would he ship animals THEN cancel and have them shipped back? Think about it. If he was out to rip you off, why would he even send the snakes in the first place?!

 

[HerpVenue]

Rob,l since I have limited experience with geckos, I will take your word for it.
I remember my Lily being skinny after her clutch....BUT she was NOT THAT skinny. So I thought maybe it was normal....or a little below normal.

But as aforementioned, I have only a little experience. So I will mark it up as good education........THANKS

As far as airborne goes....Good point Chris. Maybe he did pay ahead of time.
If he did...then I am wrong.
If he didn't.....well he should not have a bill yet.

As far as the bad guy in this thread...
Well the person should not have shipped the geckos I agree with that......on the same token...he should have been given the chance to make it right. Shoot....this thread was started the same day the originator of the thread got the geckos....He DID NOT give the guy a chance to make things right.
If he posted this to look for advice. he should have posted on the general discussions. If he meant to post on the BOI, he should have given the guy some time to make things right.

If I traded someone...then I see they posted against me without giving me time to make things right...then I hear they stopped the package....YOU BET YOUR SWEET CHEEKS I WILL TRACK THAT PACKAGE DOWN AND CLAIM IT.

I believe it is my customers obligation to make sure they give me time to make things right.......On the same token....it is also my obligation to make sure things are done well from the beginning to reduce the chances of something not meeting the customers expectations

good luck to all. I have faith that both parties will do everything in their power to make things right for the other person.

 

[k-9]

ok...first off Aaron you are telling lies as fast as you can!!!! i did not cancel shipment before i received the geckos ..liar liar!!!
my wife is getting all info from airborne as i'm writing this and if you tracked down the truck and got the package off after the driver had scanned it to come back ...they say he will loose his job...i wrote Aaron a e-mail this morning and told him to send my snakes back and i'll send his geckos back...even though he's been on here he won't respond to me...you know as well as i do the geckos pictured are the ones you sent me ....you stated you would do whats right to fix it ...but your coming up with excuses why????? just send my stuff back and don't cheat me!!!
i will not play aroung with this.. if you don't ship them out today i will call the SPCA over here to document and picture all animals to have you prosecuted for animal cruelty...and them i'll file charges agains you for fraud..i have all e-mail we sent each other and i did not get what i was suppose to...i got sick animals...as soon as i get all info from airborne it will be posted
David Pollard

 

[Seamus Haley]

Thank you for your post mpiexotics, that, combined with David's earlier response has cleared up a few points that were not as clear.

I sincerely hope the two of you can come to some sort of reasonable resolution in this situation that leaves both of you satisfied that, while it was unpleasant, it wasn't a situation where you were ripped off.

I'm not taking either side in this as I don't know either individual personally and have no real way of verifying how credible anyone is or isn't and there are a few points that they each contend the other is lying on so... Well, good luck you two.

One thing I do find a bit incredulous is...

you tracked down the truck and got the package off after the driver had scanned it to come back ...they say he will loose his job...

I've worked for a good number of companies in my time, I've registered a few complaints for poor service when it was appropriate and I've interacted with a good number of companies that provide a service... I have never known one to ever detail specific punitive actions taken against one of their employees... "The situation is being handled" or "It will not happen again, sorry for the inconvenience." or "Appropriate reproachful action has been taken against the employee responsible." is about as much as you'll ever get... They don't tell you when they get their pay docked or fired or end up with an unpleasant task or being chewed out by their boss... It's simply not done, disclosure of that sort of information just doesn't happen.

If you're simply trying to add psycological advantage to your dispute with mpiexotics or if you're simply using hyperbole in order to emphasize your words... Well, I can understand if not approve of that but you presented it as fact. Presenting any information as being factual as opposed to opinion when it is not factual tends to detract from your total credibility. You've already approached this board before giving the other party involved a chance to get his animals or even communicate with you labeling him as a "bad guy", the last thing you want to do is add to this negative action by losing credibility, even over a tiny matter such as that. Your choice how you conduct yourself of course, I'm just offering a bit of advice on an easy way to avoid looking like a sketchy individual yourself.

Good luck to both of you in sorting this mess out.

 

[k-9]

Seamus...you can find out alot when you have friends and family that works there
David Pollard

 

[drizzt_19]

Aaron/Erin
I have a question for you. You said you was using your sons email because you can access it any time anywhere. As far as I know any one can access their email from anywhere no matter where they are or who they have an email account with. So tell me why cant you access your email account anytime you want, why does it have to be your sons? Who do you have an email account with so I can avoid using them cause I would hate to be able to only access my account from one computer.

Thanks

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Ritchie, I'm sorry if I seemed like I was going off on you. I was just surprised at what you said about them going "either way." Sorry to go off on you man! But if you ever want to know geckos, drop me a line, been keeping and breeding them for years!

I agree with Seamus that it's kind of hard to swallow that David knows what will happen with that particular driver regarding his job. Even if you have family/friends working there, it would be pretty hard to know the fate of a random driver on another coast, right?

BUT, I also find it odd(and I may be the only one here)that Aaron/Gavin/Jimmy John-John there was able to track down the SPECIFIC driver's whereabouts and get the package from him/her. I HIGHLY doubt that Ariborne Express is going to give some random Joe Blow the exact location of one of their drivers over the phone. Whether they have a tracking number or not, there is no way they would do that. So what really happened? Did they attempt a 1 pm delivery and you weren't home and then they delivered at 5 pm, or did you play 007 and track down the driver and his/her whereabouts to get your box of animals?

Well, best of luck to both of you

 

[k-9]

ok...we are going to see if Aaron is a truthful person....airborne just left my house with the geckos all 7 of them tracking number is 9983185096...he e-mailed and said he would send my stuff back if thats what i wanted...we'll see..here is what he wrote
also according to airborne none of Aarons time are correct as to when i called..airbornes records show me calling the first time at 10:30am eastern time and the second call was 3:37pm eatern time...all you have to do is call and they will tell the times...my first call at 10:30 eastern is not before 6:00am western...theres not 4.5 hours difference in the time zone only 3 hours...the airborne terminal in CA said they would rectify this problem...but anyways the geckos are on there way so i want my snakes sent back!!!!!!

>----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "gavin alexander" <[email protected]>
> > >To: <[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 2:29 PM
> > >Subject: Re: Message about: Blizzard Lizzard Adult Breeders
> > >
> > >
> > > > I think the two that didn't make it is key in your unhappiness with
>this
> > > > trade. The one probably was squished by me, and I am sorry about
>that.
> > >The
> > > > adults have been real good eaters, and have laid eggs for me
>recently.
> > > > Their tails have fat reserves in them. They are not under fed.
>Everyone
> > >has
> > > > been really happy with them. In the last month, I have sold over 40
>of
> > > > them, and have had no problems. This has been the first. To be
>honest
> > >I
> > > > did not weigh them before I shipped. The breeders just laid for me
>in
> > >the
> > > > last 5-10 days. I picked the ones for you that were proven because
> > >that's
> > > > what I thought you wanted. These are not sick animals. The only
>way
> > >they
> > > > are going to die in the next few days, or weeks is if they do not
>have
> > > > access to food, and water. Please do not let the two that died be
>the
> > >main
> > > > reason for your decision. I have every intention of taking care of
>you
> > >on
> > > > this. Please look at the animals again, and if you are still
>unhappy
> > >then
> > > > send them back, and I will send your snakes back to you.
> > > >

 

[HerpVenue]

Ritchie, I'm sorry if I seemed like I was going off on you. I was just surprised at what you said about them going "either way." Sorry to go off on you man! But if you ever want to know geckos, drop me a line, been keeping and breeding them for years!

No you were not going off on me. and yes I already knew to drop you a line when I decide to keep geckos again. But at least I knew well enough not to maintain my geckos to be fatter than his even after their clutch..........But yes I WILL drop you a line.

 

[k-9]

Ritchie...hey i also apologize for saying you were paid off...that was way out of line and i'm sorry...this whole ordeal has my nerves tore up
but with airborne when i shipped the other day it was 78.08 thats the exact amount it cost me so it has to be the same coming back this way hence the 150 dollars
one of the burms was 9 feet so the box i shipped in was 18x18x12
David pollard

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

David,

I have a question for you. You say one of the Burms was 9 feet, and you shipped it with 3 other burms and 2 G. Sulcattas? That sounds like an awful small box to ship all those animals in. Were they in more than one box?

 

[k-9]

Rob... they had plenty of room don't try and make something from nothing...i know you know geckos and things but i've been in burms for years , i'm not new at this
David pollard

 

[John Apple]

9ft burm?

Ok
I am stuck on the 9ft burm in a standard 18x18x12 box
Correct me if I am wrong but, doesn't a 9ft burm weigh a fair bit
How big were the other snakes [2x burms] and the sulcattas????
if they were a pair how big are they???
MPI ....., you say you got the snakes ?? what condition were they??

 

[k-9]

ok...the one burm was 9 ft around 23 pound and the other three are 3 feet and the sulcattas are about 5 inches...think about it if the snakes were not in good shape that would have been posted yesterday when he got them...Come on guys don't get crazy....the box was plenty big enought...i have a burm that is 16ft and weights 125 pounds and she fits in a 20x20x14 box ...snakes coil up pretty small when they are in a bag....the reason i know she fits in the box is i do alot of reptile show here in the upstate for schools and the dare program for the sheriffs department
David Pollard