Info TRUTHS ABOUT THE HIDDEN GENE WOMA THAT ARE IN DIRECT CONFLICT OF KEVIN MCCURELY(NERD)

[Herp.Herp.Hooray]

Thanks Sloan Brothers for simplifying this for me

 

[David Reid]

So, after all of this, Joe Capone is accusing Kevin of __________?

Dave

 

[jluman]

This is not about Daddy Platty..... Ralph is the TOP SOURCE for that!!!!! He knows it better than ANYONE..... I am not the MR WIZARD of Daddy Platties..... Until I own that project and work through it I can only offer my OPINION!!!!

The only reason that I'm bringing this gene up is that you brought it up in this thread.

If this is your opinion:

As far as the Lesser stuff I think the HG Woma reacts with the Daddy Platty aspect of the Lesser Platinum..... as I understand from Ralph not all Lessers carry the Daddy Platty gene.... So, this is basically is what I think is happening...if the Lesser carries this hidden aspect then I believe it lines up with the HG Woma and makes Soul Suckers.

then your opinion is wrong. There is no Daddy Platty aspect to any lesser. Once again, if any lesser had that gene, it would be a visual platinum.

 

[Snake-Queen]

So, after all of this, Joe Capone is accusing Kevin of __________?

Dave

I'd like to know the answer to that as well, as I am sure many who are reading this thread.

What I have learned:
HG woma & woma are 2 separate genes, not related.

What I still don't know... is the woma gene referred to here, a result of pairing a woma python to a ball python?

 

[sloanreptiles]

I'd like to know the answer to that as well, as I am sure many who are reading this thread.

What I have learned:
HG woma & woma are 2 separate genes, not related.

What I still don't know... is the woma gene referred to here, a result of pairing a woma python to a ball python?

No not a hybrid, the Hybrid is called a Wall!

 

[Snake-Queen]

No not a hybrid, the Hybrid is called a Wall!

Thank you sloanreptiles! Your posts here have made this a little easier to understand.

So, woma refers to the patterns and/or colorations?

 

[sloanreptiles]

Thank you sloanreptiles! Your posts here have made this a little easier to understand.

So, woma refers to the patterns and/or colorations?

Yes its a pattern mutation! I couldn't tell you why he called them woma but yes the woma is just a mutation of a Ball Python!

 

[Snake-Queen]

Yes its a pattern mutation! I couldn't tell you why he called them woma but yes the woma is just a mutation of a Ball Python!

You rock!

 

[HerpVenue]

First of all I want to start this off by saying we are here to share our opinion about all of this Hidden Gene Woma/Woma stuff, I think a whole post explaining Hidden Gene Woma's and Womas from the start till now is needed. Again this is our opinion and our personal experience, this is all here to hopefully point us in the direction on what Hidden Gene Womas actually do. This is also not directed to anyone, we want to post this so everyone can undertstand a third parties experience with hidden gene womas.

Here is the way we understand it all from our our personal breedings and from talking with others involved in the Hidden Gene Woma project. Kevin imported 2 animals (not sure on the year) at the same time, assuming they were the same gene based on similar looks, he called them both Womas. After breeding the 2 he determined they were different genes, based on the combos each one of them made. He then changed the name of one calling it a Hidden gene Woma, because it was making combos that were really insane looking. After making those combos, he knew they were completely different genes. Hidden Gene Woma is NOT a combo of a Woma, it is it's own gene, just like a Pastel, it occupies it's own loci. To clear up any confusion, you can not seperate the Hidden Gene part of Hidden Gene Woma. For example you can not breed a Hidden Gene Woma to a Normal and make Womas, "Hidden Genes" and Hidden Gene Womas. When breeding Hidden Gene Woma to Normal you will make 50% Hidden Gene Womas and 50% Normals. And when breeding Woma to Normal you will make 50% Womas and 50% Normals. You will not make any Hidden Gene Woma offsrping from breeding Womas, as they are totally different genes.

Here is some info and pictures of the offsrping from our Hidden Gene Woma male that we purchased from Kevin in 2010.

Heres pictures of Hidden Gene Womas that we produced from breeding our Hidden Gene Woma to Normals. Couple of things I wanted to point out is the white and pink calico like sides, the strange looking noses, they don't have a whole lot of pattern on their head like Womas do, also note the flames on the sides of them. Also the color is a lot brighter on their backs, unlike most Womas where the color is pretty much the same throughout the whole animal.
I also wanted to share that we don't own any Womas, we only have Hidden Gene Womas in our collection, so there is no way that any of these babies are Womas.

Now here is some picture of combos we have produced. We bred Hidden Gene Woma to Mojave Bumblebee to make these animals.
This is a Hidden gene Woma Pastel Mojave. I do not have permission to post a picture of a Woma Mojave Pastel or a Woma Mojave as I do not want to post picture of someone elses animal without permission but they look VERY different from this animal.

A picture of the Hidden Gene Woma with a Pastel HGW

And the Pastel Hidden Gene Woma on her own.

The next set of picture is of Womas, these are not Hidden Gene Womas, they are Womas. Sean Bradley gave us permission to post these. He produced all of these from Woma breedings, he did not have any Hidden Gene Womas in his collection until this year, so there is no way there is any confusion between the two.
I wanted to point out on Womas how they look very similar to Spiders, they also make combos that look very similar to Spiders.

These are Womas.

These are Pastel Womas, note how much different they look from the Pastel Hidden Gene Womas we posted above, also how much different the heads are from the Hidden Gene Womas to these, Womas also don't normally get those flames and white/pink flecking on the sides like Hidden Gene Womas get. These Pastel Womas look very similar to Pastel Spiders.

We don't have any personal experience with Soul Suckers, so I do not feel it is our right to post anything about that. When we produce something from Hidden Gene Woma to Lesser we will share out results with everyone.

As for Granite, we are unsure if our Hidden Gene Woma has it in it. Based on the variability in our Hidden Gene Womas we beleive it does. But there is no way Kevin misconstrued the gene by changing its look because they vary so much there is no 1 way a Hidden Gene Woma looks. I beleive it is just hard to tell the Granite in the animals at some points because like any gene Granite will vary and the same goes with Hidden Gene Woma.

Something we can point out with the Hidden gene Woma gene is it throws random Pearls like Kevin pointed out. We had a Pearl appreaing animal in the Hidden Gene Woma to Mojave Bumblebee clutch, unfortunately it died in the egg. I do not know what is going on with that but I can say if you work with real Hidden Gene Womas you will more then likely see that kind of stuff! I can post pictures of that animal if you would like. I just need to do it in a different post as I put too many pictures of this one.

Again this post is here to post our personal experience, hopefully this can help those who were a little confused about the whole subject. And again this is not directed to anyone, if this needs to be posted in a new thread I can do that.

Thanks for reading,

Thank You Sloan Reptiles.

You make it quite obvious and educational.

Joe

Do me a favor. Read the Sloan Brother's post. I quoted it for you because I am sure you missed it or chose to miss it. VERY informative.
Do me a second favor. The next time you say you have a smoking gun.... just post it.
Do me a third favor. Next time you say you have e-mails to prove your side of the story, just post it.
Do me a fourth favor. Next time you say you have pics to prove your point. Make sure you have some kind of point. And pictures that prove aforementioned point

 

[David Reid]

Isn't this the second, "Pat myself on the Back" thread that Joe has posted? This and the White Outs? Weren't both pretty pointless and self absorbed? I have seen a pattern with Joe, he states he is all about his customers, when it is really all about him. He states he wants to bring something out in the open, when all he is doing is posturing and trying to look smarter than everyone else. I can say, it has backfired. Same dog, no new tricks.

Dave

 

[rcpreis3]

Thanks to Sloanreptiles for some clarifying, now if only Joe would do some Clarifying... I guess the only way to tell is to find out is if the poor person that got that 17500 soulsucker sumthin produces any lessers from it.

 

[rcpreis3]

Thanks to Sloanreptiles for some clarifying, now if only Joe would do some Clarifying... I guess the only way to tell is to find out is if the poor person that got that 17500 soulsucker sumthin produces any lessers from it.

Sorry that doesnt make alot of sense... lol

We'll know more about Joes line of soulsuckers whether or not the poor soul who bought that 17.5k snake produces any lessers and HGWs from it.

 

[Cp3_Pythons]

I can see the demise of PHR... in the soon to come future... at the end of the day it's simply a way for them to move out animals at a higher price... it's been stated before controversy sells and that's what's going on here nothing more... If Joe had ANY real evidence he would of posted it by now instead of running circle's. He hasn't so IMO the emails he speaks of don't exist... I feel sorry for ANYONE WHO PURCHASE'S A SO CALLED NEW MORPH FROM PHR... How does that make you feel Joe??? seriously to know you scammed someone out of 17.5k?? If I was that customer I'd demand a refund...

At the end of the day this is whats wrong with this hobby/industry people have got so caught up with trying to be the first to produce the newest morph and getting the most cash out of it they lost what this hobby/industry is really about... the love for the animals we keep and breed... IMO when you loose track of that you should leave the hobby/industry because then where left with threads like this... which simply take up server space and waste the people's time who are reading this thinking there may be something valid that may be proven but there's not... Joe of PHR do us a favor either put up or ____ up show the emails already what are waiting for it's your reputation on the line...

 

[Get Sum]

Isn't this the second, "Pat myself on the Back" thread that Joe has posted? This and the White Outs? Weren't both pretty pointless and self absorbed? I have seen a pattern with Joe, he states he is all about his customers, when it is really all about him.
Dave

I think you have it wrong Dave, PHR calls their washed out pastels, mojaves, pastaves, pastel calicos, super pastels and super pastel calicos: WASHOUTS, not White Outs. Their washout has proven itself in several clutches over two years. (This year will be #3). It is not to be confused with Amir's labeled (Citrus White-outs), they are two completely different mutations.

Sloan Brothers- Great Job on the post! You guys are top notch and very professional

This entire thread has taken a 180 from the original post, I can understand why Kevin has so many people backing him, I would only expect that, as big as he is with Ball pythons and pockets as deep as they are.

Kevin- If you really want people to continue to look up to you, "Please" stop with your childish actions and name calling. My son read this thread and lost alot of respect he had for you from the way you responded on here and handled the situation. We are trying to pass this hobby on to our kids, lets make good examples for them, not act like grade schoolers.

Joe C- I believe you have quite a few breeder size Lesser females over at Clark's place. Would it be correct to assume there just may be a few more clutches cooking over there that were sired by your pewter HGW?

I can appreciate the nature of this post. IMO, I think we should all hit the pause button until additional clutches hatch out and the infamous soul sucker appears!

 

[David Reid]

Jason, the Capone thread calling out different people about the washout/white out pastels is very similar to this thread. Look it up.

Dave

 

[Pasodama]

First of all I want to start this off by saying we are here to share our opinion about all of this Hidden Gene Woma/Woma stuff, I think a whole post explaining Hidden Gene Woma's and Womas from the start till now is needed. Again this is our opinion and our personal experience, this is all here to hopefully point us in the direction on what Hidden Gene Womas actually do. This is also not directed to anyone, we want to post this so everyone can undertstand a third parties experience with hidden gene womas.

<SNIP>

Nicely done and coherent!
After all the head spinning, from this thread, I am, finally, able to understand something with re. to the HGW. LoL
Thanks.

 

[saskia]

Well, I for one am very happy Kevin finally came to talk to us on a forum, I really hope to get some answers in this thread.

Kevin, I think you can not say one thing about the Platty Daddy gene and then say...we are not talking about that here....It's your own words, so please explain how a Lesser can have a platy Daddy gene without being a Platinum?

First you tell us:

**Originally Posted by NERD,Inc
As far as the Lesser stuff I think the HG Woma reacts with the Daddy Platty aspect of the Lesser Platinum..... as I understand from Ralph not all Lessers carry the Daddy Platty gene.... So, this is basically is what I think is happening...if the Lesser carries this hidden aspect then I believe it lines up with the HG Woma and makes Soul Suckers.**

Later you say:

**Originally Posted by NERD,Inc
This is not about Daddy Platty..... Ralph is the TOP SOURCE for that!!!!! He knows it better than ANYONE..... I am not the MR WIZARD of Daddy Platties..... Until I own that project and work through it I can only offer my OPINION!!!!**

Have you ever had Platinums out of breeding HG Woma X HG Woma??

When you say that you think the Platty aspect of a Lesser is working with HG you are apparently working with the platy gene for years now?? So you must know as much about it as Ralph does?

I'm not here to Bash you or anything Kevin but I really like to know what's going on....my partner tried calling you more than once when we purchased our Soulsucker from Craig...but you never had time to come to the phone and Andy claimed he didn't know....I send you E-mails from the link on your website but I never got a reply....
Only Raphy talked to me and helped me....but he doesn't know any more then we do...so he made the video with you that confused us even more, lol

That's why I'm really happy that you are here now to talk to us

Ofcourse I can find out everything on my own the coming years, but I really would like to know now......
Especially when I get lesser offspring of my SoulSucker....what should I call them? What do I tell my customers?? That's really really important to me..hope you understand!




***Topicstarter Joe: Please please please can you answer my questions I've asked you before in this thread??

***Joe23?? Please can you answer my question too??

 

[saskia]

Edit: Kevin: has one of your customers who's bought a HGwoma from you ever made a Soulsucker from a Lesser or Butter that did not come from you that you are aware of?

 

[radera5]

I think you have it wrong Dave, PHR calls their washed out pastels, mojaves, pastaves, pastel calicos, super pastels and super pastel calicos: WASHOUTS, not White Outs. Their washout has proven itself in several clutches over two years. (This year will be #3). It is not to be confused with Amir's labeled (Citrus White-outs), they are two completely different mutations.

Sloan Brothers- Great Job on the post! You guys are top notch and very professional

This entire thread has taken a 180 from the original post, I can understand why Kevin has so many people backing him, I would only expect that, as big as he is with Ball pythons and pockets as deep as they are.

Kevin- If you really want people to continue to look up to you, "Please" stop with your childish actions and name calling. My son read this thread and lost alot of respect he had for you from the way you responded on here and handled the situation. We are trying to pass this hobby on to our kids, lets make good examples for them, not act like grade schoolers.

Joe C- I believe you have quite a few breeder size Lesser females over at Clark's place. Would it be correct to assume there just may be a few more clutches cooking over there that were sired by your pewter HGW?

I can appreciate the nature of this post. IMO, I think we should all hit the pause button until additional clutches hatch out and the infamous soul sucker appears!

After this I just couldn't take it anymore...

Jason, the "washout" is only named so because a thread very similar to this had to be made where people had to draw a picture for Joe to understand anything. He would still be calling them White Out's

Joe doesn't own a Pewter HGW!
Unless you are referring to his Pewter Woma? Which in case you missed it, or can not tell for yourself by looking at it, is NOT the same thing. It's not even close as a matter of fact. It will NOT produce Soul Suckers...

It's actually funny how an animal with almost the same name and so many similarities at first glance, is actually nothing like the HGW. You know why?
Hidden gene Woma's will produce SS's. Woma's will create what you see in Joe's ad that he has been pushing lately.


I'm wondering if you have some investment in all this? Maybe you are the buyer of the 17.5k woma combo? Maybe you bought some of the "washout" stuff? Also a possibility that neither is true, I am just assuming things.

I'm done here. I am going back to keeping to myself, after Jason's post I just couldn't help but say something.

 

[Herp.Herp.Hooray]

Wonder why they didn't bring this to the ????????