TW International Wyatt in Texas

[Cat_72]

Bill......she walked in there and picked up some Baytril. I don't see what the point in calling them was. Why not call a vet that actually SAW the animals? Or did the necropsy?

My local vets don't do any exotics either......but I can call them and tell them I need Baytril, or Tylan, or whatever, and they have it ready for me.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Thanks Robin.

All she did was pick up the meds from this vet.

ok I missed the Dr Gordon (nice guy by the way I just talked to him) My deepest apologize for any mis-conceptions.

 

[Wyatt]

Wes,
I am sorry that I need to write this out for you. NO NOTHING HAS DIED FOR OVER 5 YEARS ( well there was one that was over 14 years old ). As far as you wanting records proof, etc.. Wes, I really could care less of what you might expect but it will be a cold day in you know where before I feel the need to turn over any of my records to you to prove anything I say right or wrong You are not a customer of mine and if you were many years ago please refresh my memory. But none the less, once again EVERYTHING IS FINE HERE and breeding is comencing as normal.

Wyatt

 

[Cat_72]

Nice.

 

[critical bill]

The link is the same as she posted her vet report here. And where I am going is hopefully in the same direction as everyone else. To find out what is really going on with these balls. One thing I've never been, is shy if it don't feel right, I pick up a phone, instead of playing ring around the word game. I am truly sorry if someone is offended by this. Thats just the way it is.

Have you no shame man? You are only correct in stating that you are not shy, to prey upon others that is, just like this other scumbag, wyatt. Playing games, looking for a way out of accountability, thats something you two have quite in common.

You pick up a phone to clear things up when it doesn't feel right? Ha ha. More exactly, you put your nose where it don't belong when YOU still have things that YOU haven't made right.

Way to go Colombo!

Sorry if your by offended by that. Thats just the way it is.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

YOU still have things that YOU haven't made right.

you are correct sir, but that is for the other thread perhaps.

 

[FREAKIE_FROG]

Help me out here

Please don't take this as an attack Jen but with the length of the thread and the amount of info I feel there are a few over looked things that need to be addressed
How many have died here you say two

Wyatt, I am e-mailing you this same information. As far as Dr. Gordon, his staff, and I am concerned, this is all a result of you sending an infected animal carrying a contagious virus. I have now spent over $500 in vet bills, lost 2 breeder females, and lost the ability to breed my 2 big projects this year (g-stripes and clowns) because the het females are shot to hell and have lost too much weight/health (and still may die if we can't bring them back).

And 45 minutes later its only one

3 + the one that died. The het clown, my adult female het g-stripe, and my 3300g female. Her sister, my 3100g female, is the one that passed away shortly after showing symptoms.

The post regarding Dizzy developing her RI was October 2nd -- your het clown arrived to me on September 28th. Last I checked, September 28th comes before October 2nd. Dizzy developed her RI symptoms on September 29th

So where was the QT. Was the het clown in contact with your established collection 1-2 days after arriving with out QT. Or was the transferal by handling one then the other with out sanitizing out of the QT area? I know you explained your QT procedures but something some where got over looked.

still thought it was a simple bacterial RI with an easy fix. That was also when only the het clown was sick

Yet you have no experience with even a simple RI so why keep on going. Also by your own words

Dizzy developed her RI symptoms on September 29th

you stared treating an "established" animal for a "simple RI" 24 hours after a new snake comes into QT and its the new animal that transfer the RI to your animal.

So an animal in QT showing no signs of an RI transfers it to an established animal that with in 24 has a full blown RI and is in need of treatment.

Considering that the first female and the het clown got sick at the exact same time yet the first female had been in my collection for months without a single problem, how can you be so sure that your het clown didn't bring in an illness and it then passed to my female, both had the same couple-day incubation,

Also not adding up the first animal to get sick was your established female

Dizzy developed her RI symptoms on September 29th

You didn't start treating the het clown until the first week in Oct and after having eaten 2 meals for you. Almost 2 weeks after you admitted to having to treat an established animal

I kept her in quarantine and kept her warm, checking her twice daily to watch for signs of illness after 3 days of being cold in a box with no air. She took 2 weaned rats for me 3 days after arrival, so I thought all was well and that she would be alright. But about a week later, she developed a BAD respiratory infection.

Even if it was a virus the first one to get sick is the source.

 

[ToshaMc]

The more I read this the more confused I get - in one post you say that it was the het clown that got sick 4 days after arriving (or at least that's when you started treating her) then in another it was Dizzy that got sick right after the hets arrival and the het got sick a week later. You are saying your 3100 gram female died - which I was assuming was Dizzy - but on your TSK post Dizzy was breeding in September at 1500 grams - did she gain 1500 grams in a month?

Jen - please don't take this as an attack but - I've got to say - with the mixed up jumbled time line, the mixed up jumbled animals, poor quarantine procedures as well as the fact that there are two dead animals (sources) linked to the animals in your collection - on top of the fact that the other snake with and RI from Damian had a standard very treatable RI - it's not, IMO, looking like Damian is the source - at least not in any definite terms.

Have the vet reports on the virus been released yet?

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Ok I'm lost I have read this thread a few times, and I am still trying to figure something out. Jen where did you take these Balls to and have them diagnosed ? something didn't and still doesn't sound right so, I decided to give Petcare Clinic @ 608-798-4545(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...07VetReport.jpg) a call. I talked to a sweet lady by the name of Kristy who told me that they do not do exotics in any shape or form at any of their locations. unless I missed something in all of this. If you would be kind enough to clear this up it would be appreciated.

Kristi is the receptionist for Dr. Valenta. They are my cats' vet clinic -- they do not deal with exotics. Kari, the vet tech that used to work there but now works at my 3rd vet (Fitchburg Veterinary Hospital), used to keep burms, and after describing my problem to her, she said Baytril would be the next step. She authorized it through Dr. Valenta and brought it over to my house. Dr. Valenta never saw the snake because he doesn't deal with reptiles. Throughout this entire thing, I have gone to 3 vets trying to find one that can finally give me some answers/proper treatment. That's how I wound up with Dr. Gordon. I went back to Dr. Valenta trying to get the Fortaz/Amikacin using Scott's e-mail, and he was going to prescribe it to me based on that. But I had a hard time getting it anywhere as it isn't a common drug -- so Kristi slips me a piece of paper with the number to the Fitchburg clinic on it, tells me that this is where Kari is now working, and she just happens to be working for an actual exotics vet. So that's where I went, and that's who did the necropsy and all the pathology.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Please don't take this as an attack Jen but with the length of the thread and the amount of info I feel there are a few over looked things that need to be addressed
How many have died here you say two

This was in reference to overall.

And 45 minutes later its only one

This was in reference to what happened as of recent.

So where was the QT. Was the het clown in contact with your established collection 1-2 days after arriving with out QT. Or was the transferal by handling one then the other with out sanitizing out of the QT area? I know you explained your QT procedures but something some where got over looked.

I have already explained all of this multiple times, as well as what the vet told me the transferral method was. Please go back and read. I'm tired of repeating myself.

Yet you have no experience with even a simple RI so why keep on going. Also by your own words you stared treating an "established" animal for a "simple RI" 24 hours after a new snake comes into QT and its the new animal that transfer the RI to your animal.

Because that is what my vets were telling me -- all 3 of them, plus one online in our herp community. "It's a routine RI." "It's a bacterial RI, the antibiotics should clear it up just fine." "It's resistant to Baytril, which is a worthless treatment, let's try something else which is state of the art." Why would I have any reason to think any different?

So an animal in QT showing no signs of an RI transfers it to an established animal that with in 24 has a full blown RI and is in need of treatment.

She was not full-blown on the first day. She was wheezing, so I started treating right away to catch it early -- is this not what the rest of you would do? The het clown was full blown wheezing and gurgling on the first day -- so while I didn't notice any symptoms until the 4th day, that doesn't mean they weren't there. That is the day of record because that is when I noticed her.

Also not adding up the first animal to get sick was your established female. You didn't start treating the het clown until the first week in Oct and after having eaten 2 meals for you. Almost 2 weeks after you admitted to having to treat an established animal. Even if it was a virus the first one to get sick is the source.

Not sure where you're getting that timeline. Dizzy got sick on the 29th -- started her on Tylan. No improvement by the 2nd, so started treating her with Baytril. The het clown had arrived on September 28th, ate 2 weaned rats, then was sick on the 2nd -- same day I got the Baytril for Dizzy, so I got enough for both. The first one to get sick is not always the source -- I doubt that snakes are different from mammals in that each one has exactly the same immunity and viruses will just go right down the row. Have you not ever brought something home, like a cold, or the flu, and NOT been the first one to get it? I sure have. My daughter gets nailed with it before I do -- because her immune system isn't as strong as mine. And this is how it was explained to me -- that Dizzy and Lola didn't make it because they couldn't fight it as well as the hets are.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

The more I read this the more confused I get - in one post you say that it was the het clown that got sick 4 days after arriving (or at least that's when you started treating her) then in another it was Dizzy that got sick right after the hets arrival and the het got sick a week later. You are saying your 3100 gram female died - which I was assuming was Dizzy - but on your TSK post Dizzy was breeding in September at 1500 grams - did she gain 1500 grams in a month?

Perhaps I write too much and people get things mixed up as they read -- because I am certaintly not saying these things.

Please read the above posted timeline on who got sick when. That is what has been stated the entire time.

Dizzy was 1500g -- she was the one that died over a week after getting sick. Lola was 3100g -- she was the one that died recently.

The vet reports have always been available -- the reason I don't have them yet is that they are closed all weekend, and it is a 45-minute drive one way to go get them, then 45 minutes to come back home, then try to get ready for work, and then go to work (another 30-minute drive one way). I do have other things going on in my life right now aside from this illness in my collection, including a teenager I am mentoring that is currently sleeping in my livingroom because her dad threw her down the stairs last night and I had to drive an hour to go get her -- I can't just drop everything right this second, load up my daughter, leave Adri here, run out to the vet, come back, then dump her back off so I can go to work. It has to wait until I am off tomorrow and can get out there.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Kristi is the receptionist for Dr. Valenta. They are my cats' vet clinic -- they do not deal with exotics. Kari, the vet tech that used to work there but now works at my 3rd vet (Fitchburg Veterinary Hospital), used to keep burms, and after describing my problem to her, she said Baytril would be the next step. She authorized it through Dr. Valenta and brought it over to my house. Dr. Valenta never saw the snake because he doesn't deal with reptiles. Throughout this entire thing, I have gone to 3 vets trying to find one that can finally give me some answers/proper treatment. That's how I wound up with Dr. Gordon. I went back to Dr. Valenta trying to get the Fortaz/Amikacin using Scott's e-mail, and he was going to prescribe it to me based on that. But I had a hard time getting it anywhere as it isn't a common drug -- so Kristi slips me a piece of paper with the number to the Fitchburg clinic on it, tells me that this is where Kari is now working, and she just happens to be working for an actual exotics vet. So that's where I went, and that's who did the necropsy and all the pathology.

Jen, Thank you, I just needed to read more closely I missed the whole Dr Gordon thing, I hope it all works out for you and those Balls Good Luck.

 

[LakesideBoas]

Ummmm....

Regardless of Jen's 'timeline' and quarantine procedures has anyone else seen what I have?

I'll give you a few minutes to think about the previous thread on Wyatt and some of the responses in this thread.

Okay, what I am noticing, and it's something that makes my antennae quiver, is that this is not the first time someone has purchased an animal from Wyatt that exhibited and subsequently died as the result of a antibiotic/antiviral resistant RI.

Now, I am not going to start blaming anyone. Perhaps Wyatt may want to see if the connection I am seeing could be from who HE got the animals from, if they were purchased. It would make me sit back and scratch my head if more than one customer informed me that a resistant form of infection manifested itself in animals that I sold and that the prognosis for those animals in most cases was death.

Jen's quarantine procedures are the best she can do given her living conditions. I do have one suggestion for you, Jen. I have an old lab coat that I wear in my QT room. Although it may be a moot point in your situation as I am able to completely segregate anything showing symptoms of an illness to my basement where I basically have an entire new setup and those items (feeding tongs, tubs, etc.) never come in contact with my established collection. Perhaps you can try and make your collection more stable by finding a place to segregate any new arrivals? I mean if they don't display anything alarming in a couple weeks then the setup doesn't have to be permanent.

 

[Scramblermike]

Why I didn't call/why I posted on here1

Hey Wyatt,
You're good at this trying to blame other people for your mistakes. When we had made our original deal it was a weekend. You were supposed to be shipping on Monday for Tuesday arrival. I was here all day Tuesday no snake then you called at got my info again saying that you were shipping it tuesday for a Wednesday arrival. Well I figured it didn't show on Tuesday and I was home until 2pm Wednesday it was safe to go try to work and make some money. I was back at 4pm and the snake had arrived between 2 and 4 while I was gone. Oh yeah and I called and left you a voice mail since you do not answer your cell phone. Hope that helps clear that up. I really do like this snake and I am glad he is healthy now. I am more happy for him cause he gets to live here with me in a smaller collection where he will recieve my attention on an everyday basis. Thanks again Wyatt. Mike

 

[LakesideBoas]

BTW...

Most viruses can live up to 30 days on a non-porous surface and even longer on a porous surface (porous meaning textured or holey) if conditions are favorable. So they are very hard to kill.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

This is something that has been an issue since I moved up here. In Texas, we had 4 bedrooms -- no problems with quarantine. Here, I literally only have 3 rooms. My room, my daughter's room, and my snake room. Otherwise the rest of my house comprises of my livingroom, my kitchen, and my bathroom/laundry room. I had contemplated making a quarantine in my laundry room, but the problem is with the way my house's heating ducts are designed. Heat does not flow into the bathroom/laundry room unless I keep the door open and allow free airflow from my kitchen/livingroom. With the door shut, it drops to whatever temp is outside (the bathroom/laundry room runs parallel to the steel firesafe hallway between my living area and the big bay garage). I could keep them in there with the door open, but this would pose two problems -- one being that I could only get the room temp up to 68-70 as that is what my house is. Combined with the heat cable in the rack, that still isn't warm enough and then I am opening myself up to the usual cold/bacteria related respiratory problems. The second problem being that my daughter goes in there all the time -- she is 19 months old, is well aware of the snakes, and can easily pull out a tub if we turn our backs for one second to make dinner or go pee. As mentioned before, yes, my quarantine procedures suck, but they are the best I can do with what I've got. To me, that was a fair trade for being in a home that is safe, not in a bad neighborhood, close to my family, has a very helpful and understanding landlord since I am by myself, and allows me to have my animals. Up until now, my quarantine had never posed a problem whatsoever.

 

[Wilomn]

Regardless of Jen's 'timeline' and quarantine procedures has anyone else seen what I have?

I'll give you a few minutes to think about the previous thread on Wyatt and some of the responses in this thread.

Okay, what I am noticing, and it's something that makes my antennae quiver, is that this is not the first time someone has purchased an animal from Wyatt that exhibited and subsequently died as the result of a antibiotic/antiviral resistant RI.

Ding Ding Ding

I also don't believe for one quick second that he has not had a single death in 5 years.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Most viruses can live up to 30 days on a non-porous surface and even longer on a porous surface (porous meaning textured or holey) if conditions are favorable. So they are very hard to kill.

So on a plastic/PVC surface (or even my carpet, even though my snakes are never in contact with my carpet), can one live for 7 months?

 

[LakesideBoas]

Perhaps...

So on a plastic/PVC surface (or even my carpet, even though my snakes are never in contact with my carpet), can one live for 7 months?

Depending on what conditions a particular virus needs to survive and they are present it is possible that yes they could, especially in your carpet. Cleaning and sanitizing everything you use, EVERY time you use it, and caring for those in your quarantine room last makes passing on pathogens, viruses and bacteria much less of an issue.

That being said, the likelyhood of that condition being present in your environment without changes makes that scenario highly unlikely. Also, I have never heard of a pathogen able to survive outside of a lab for that length of time...Dr. Owens would be the most likely candidate to have an answer for that.

Jen, don't worry, I can say with utmost certainty that you don't have a virus factory in your house!

 

[rabernet]

Jen, I'm not sure if you missed my posts - but I have tried reading back through and don't see where you've said how long you quarantine. You stated you purchased your clown male at Tinley (middle of October) and you post pictures of him breeding on Nov. 8th (with another female you say is now sick). How is he doing btw in light of her now being sick?

I also asked if the het g-stripe female that you say is sick, is the same one that you posted on Nov. 30th that you plan to breed to your friend's G-stripe male?

I still haven't seen anyone explain how Dizzy contracted this from the het clown in 24 hours or less AND displayed symptoms that quickly. That's the biggest thing I can't understand in all of this.