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underground reptiles no response

Cheri,

This confirms your theory expressed in their other thread. You had it right from day one.

Regards :)
 
Joe

Sorry about that, didnt mean to imply, not was I trying to imply, that zooilogical doesnt care for there animals. I just mentioned them, as I know they have ornates on hand.

I have used zooilogical before, and have seen them in person many times, and your absolutely correct they do have some of the nicest imports available. I havent myself ever been to their facilities, so I couldnt comment on that.

I was just stating something many of us truely believe, and that is that it GENERALLY best to purchase imports sooner rather then later. However seeing as theese are all CB import ornate uros, one would assume given the proper care most if not all would survive.

Again just want to be 100% clear, I was just useing zooilogicals name because I know they have ornates currently, however hindsight being 20/20 I would have been better served saying "insert importer here" instead.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
First of all I'd like to start with Zoological imports has some amazing animals. Never have I seen an animal in poor condition at their facility. I agree with Joe and Mickey but if you going towards imports then Zoological Is the place to be! I personally only buy c.b.b. but when ever I'm tempted it's at mario's place and several times I've passed on my reasoning due to the fact that it's the best imports around. Underground reptiles does use bushmaster and strictly. Not to say that there aren't other companies that don't. I do feel that something weird is going on as this is the seccond time something like this has happened.
John
 
I know there is a major problem here with these uro's. These were advertised as CAPTIVE BRED.
Click to expand...

Weren't these supposed to be CB? Does anyone know if Bushmaster and Strictly breeding uros? Does anyone have a contact person with them to ask? Although maybe these uros did not come from either one. Do you happen to know Bruce?

Regards.
 
Thanks for the info Daniel. Is there any way to track down who else bought uros from this shipment. What I'm getting at is that it might be important to know if there is something going on with the entire shipment.

Regards
 
Daniel

Its not likely that the whole shipment was bad, rather that they have sat around for a while, at DIFFERENT locations. Some locations may take better care of the animals then other. Also one location may have had issues other may not have had due to contact with other imports.

The likelyhood of tracking down the supplier of this "bad group" from the entire group is unlikely. However its easy to see a couple of steps to take. Dont order from the companies you are SURE are getting them from whomever the "bad" supplier may be. More importantly dont buy from someone who will ship questionable animals, and discontinue service once problems arise.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
underground reptiles

Hi

They were advertised as c/b from Europe and also said in the add these are not part of the current exports that are circulating the country. These are 100% parasite free, eating great and healthy, this is how the advertisement read. I called Rian today and asked him where he received them from and he did not answer me. I would hate to see what he advertises as B-Grade Reptiles.

Bruce Gaudet
 
Underground Reptiles

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

Hi Mickey,

I am familiar with the deer farms web site and use it quite often. I am also familiar with the uromastic forum. I have three other mali uro's that were wild caught. I have had them for three years and they are doing fantastic. The set ups I have are the exact same and so is the care, food, housing and lighting. So I know there is nothing I am doing wrong on my part. After all, that is why I wanted captive bred because the wild caught took alot of bathing and hand feeding and also fluid therapy. So I am not familiar with the basic needs. This is more of a problem of sending sick and underweight reptiles that should have been treated and hydrated and made sure they were eating and gaining weight.

I would like to thank you for your information and I understand these are not the easiest lizards to acclamate. That is why the second time around I went to captive bred? The first time between vets and feeding and hydrating it was a major task, but all survived and are thriving.

Thanks again,

Bruce Gaudet
 
Its not likely that the whole shipment was bad, rather that they have sat around for a while, at DIFFERENT locations. Some locations may take better care of the animals then other. Also one location may have had issues other may not have had due to contact with other imports.
Click to expand...

Yes, good point Mickey. This is what we were discussing earlier today with Rob on the business section. The issue of CB vs CH and how many hands reptiles go through before arriving a private collection. The only problem is that as far as we know Bushmaster and Striclty Reptiles could have been their suppliers. They would absolutely not be very happy to learn how the way this has been handled. On the other hand it stands reason that Rian will not want to disclose his supplier to Bruce, although these are special circumstances.

Regards.
 
Bruce

Im sure you have done all you can for the uros, and I hope you dont think I was implying you werent. I was just trying to give as much advice on them as I could think of.

Ive kept over 500 wild caught uros in my life, and sadly Ive seen a number of them die. And generally Ive found when they come in soo weak as to not eat, or gravid, your in for a fight to keep them alive, let alone to get them to thrive. Captive bred obviously is perfered, but with uros low production, and space requirements, and non communal temperments, captives are hard to find, and often not worth produceing with the cost of inexpensive imports to compete against.

I had hoped with more "cb" imports coming in (and I assume thats code for farmed babies) that the quality might improve overall. However its sadly just as easy to screw up a healthy uro as it is an import.

Anyways, good luck with the situation and I agree people do need to pay closer attention what they ship out.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
Let's not forget that this thread is about rian's ripoffs aka underground reptiles and the shoddy business ethics he practices. Seems he lies a lot and threatens, in a bassackwards way, and doesn't take real good care of his animals.

I'm thinking that rian from rian's ripoffs is totally deserving in the lable BAD GUY.

Wes Pollock
 
Well I can't speak about the animals that came from Underground, but the Ornate's that come in the country as either c.b. in Europe or other countries are not c.b. at all. They are wild caught animals being exported through Europe. Some of them are W/C in Egypt, some are from Lebanon, and some are from other countries. The animals that come in as small animals or babies are sold as c.b. no matter. Take for example all the baby Mali's that come in each year. They are not c.b. anywhere but are captured in the wild in Mali and exported to the US. When they arrive here they are sold as c.b. because they are brand new babies and it helps sell them. Now this does not hold true for all the baby Mali's but for probably 90+% of them. There are no Farms in Mali and also alot of the Mali Uro's that are imported are actually exported to countries such as Ghana, Benin, and Togo and then re-exported to the US and there are no farms in those countries for sure. I import Both Mali Uros and Geyri Uro's direct from Mali each year and there are many that come in that if I wanted to could sell them as c.b. animals but I don't as they are not so. As a prime example, about 4 months ago I sold a trio of Red Niger's (Uromastyx Geyri) that I received withmy last shipment from Mali. These came in as small juvenile animals and looked awesome like c.b.b. animals. Well I held them back as I wanted to keep them for a breeding project but decided to sell them. When my customer received them I received an e-mail asking me if I was sure these animals were W/C and if maybe I sent the wrong animals as they thought they were c.b.b. animals.
 
Well I can't speak about the animals that came from Underground, but the Ornate's that come in the country as either c.b. in Europe or other countries are not c.b. at all. They are wild caught animals being exported through Europe.
Click to expand...

Thanks for confirming that Rob. That's why I asked if they were in effect CB. When I was told they were from Europe. Mmmm???
 
underground reptiles very bad guy

Hi,

One more uro is dead, that is 3 dead and 2 more sick. If this don't classify him as a bad guy, I dont know what will. It has been only 2 weeks since receiving them and 3 are dead, 2 more are sick and $200.00 in vet bills. I really did not want to send them back figuring the shape that their in is only a death sentence, but I really have no choice at this time.

Bruce Gaudet
 
BRUCE, theirs no advantage

in sending them back. Your just going to have to take a deep breath, consider it a bad experience and move on. I am sorry for the loss, but this is the nature of the business that we chose and regretably, this transaction did not work out in your favour.

The BOI has an infinite memory, and the day will come when another inquiry may arise. At least you will be able to inform others . Their has been alot written on this subject and I can assure you it will not go unnoticed.
 
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