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Upstate Exotics (BAD GUY)

G

gracie

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Messages
351
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18
Age
41
Location
Northeast, PA
I recently purchased a sub adult 2ft cb blackthroat monitor from Sal & Alison Tornambene of Upstate Exotics. The animal arrived yesturday in a WAY to large box with only 2 heat packs to keep it warm. When I opened the sac he was in I thought he was dead. Completely motionless and limp. I pulled the body out of the bag to inspect it and noticed the slightest movement in one of his claws. I rushed him up stairs and placed him on a heating pad and under a heat lamp. Slowly but surely he revived and is doing okay now but a respirtory infection is bound to come. Sal did warm me of the cold and asked if I still wanted him to ship and I said yes, assuming the animal would be properly packaged. Also, about a half hour ago I was inspecting the monitor and found 3 very large and bloated ticks in his left nostril and 2 even fatter ones in his right. I saved them as I have absolutely no idea which kind they are. They are a medium sized tick with yellowish white spots on their backs. I really don't care though what kins they are only that they are on MY monitor that was supposed to be CB. He is also very thin, his hip bones stick out quite a bit and his legs have nothing tem. Point is, be careful of Upstate Exotics.

Diana Mason
 
I am sorry to hear that your animal came in like that. Ticks are a sure fire sign that the animal is NOT c.b. there are a few wholesalers that sell some of the smaller balckthroats that come in from Africa as c.b. animals when they are just W/C and I would be willing to put money that this is what happened in this case. (not that I am trying to take anything away from their less than adequate shipping). If your not happy with the Animal and it was mis-represented as it sounds, I would send it back for a full refund.
 
Now the gut is trying to lie to me saying that I bought the monitor as an import and that ticks are common. Here's the email he just sent me:
"You purchased an import, that is part of purchasing an import. You did not purchase a CB monitor from us, nor was there any indications during any part of the sale that you were purchasing a CB. I am not sure if you are new to purchasing reptiles, however, anyone will tell you that imports are going to have ticks, mites, etc. And being a business with a high turn over, we try our best to de-tick our animals, but there are going to be instances where you will find them. However I am glad to hear the monitor is doing fine.

Like I said, if you feel you must post on the BOI, this will all be my defense and ANYONE in the reptile business will agree that this is very common with ALL imports.

Thanks

Upstate Exotics"

By the way, the ticks were sticking so far out the animals nose there was absolutely NO way they could have missed them. Plus everyoine knows monitors nostrils are where ticks are always found.

And here's the email I bought the animal by:

"He is eating 2 f/t small rats 1 a week. We believe it's a HE, but it is VERY hard to sex a monitor, when he came from my breeder, that's what he was sold as. He is CB. And as far as age, maybe 2 yrs??"
 
Ok here we go....And to clear the record I'm Alison, the one who dealt with Diana, not my husband Sal.

1. As far as the monitor being CB. This monitor is an IMPORT. Never did our ads on Kingsnake say CB, never in any correspondace to Diana did we say it was CB , not even on our website was CB ever mentioned. I'm not even sure where you could find a CB black throat, surely not here with us. Even all all the Email subjects it was stated "Re:Message About: BLACK THROAT MONITOR"

2. As far as shipping....we ship via UPS Next Day Air. Diana waited until 4pm when UPS decided to show up. Never did she make any attempt to track the package, never did she make an attempt to contact UPS to locate the driver, never did she make an attempt to contact us to tell us the package hadn't arrived. She agreed to our shipping terms with plainly states that we are NOT responsible for the carrier's handling of the package. Not only that, I had explained to her NUMEROUS times that it was against my judgement to ship, since our weather was below zero, but she insisted on having it shipped stating to me in the email "That's okay. Monday is supposed to warm up a bit and I'm not TOO far away from you"

Here is the email that Diana sent to me once the Monitor arrived:

Well, he just arrived and I am EXTREMELY angry with you. First of all you shipped airsaver which is just not right. The heat packs were ice cold and you only used 2 for such a large box? There should have been 5-6 in that box. I thought he was dead when I opened the sac but he was still just barely hanging on and I don't expect him to make it though the rest of the day. And there is no way those were 40 hr heat packs otherwise they would have still been warm when he got here. If he dies because of this I expect a FULL refund. This could have all been avoided if you had simply used more heat packs and a smaller box. Expect to see this posted on the BOI....
Click to expand...

And I also find it quite humorous that I am getting shipping advice to send 5-6 heat packs in a box with a black throat monitor, from a woman who has been reported on the BOI as someone who ships her reptiles and snakes via 3-day (priority) USPS.


http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11110&highlight=diana+mason

And we get shipments in all the time as well as outbound shipments, and there are instances when heat packs are cold....with dealing with such a large amount of heat packs you are always bound to have one that will stop working.

3. As far as eating, we DO NOT ship anything out unless we have it eating first here with us. We do our best to de-tick our imports, but as stated to Diana, this monitor had only been with us a short while, he ate for us and he got shipped out as Diana wanted him shipped ASAP, against our judgement.

I hope this clears up the situation. Diana understood that by taking the chance of shipping the animal against our advice she voided all of our policies as stated.

I am glad to hear the monitor did arrive alive since the weather was so brutal.
 
Alison,

You say you shipped it against your judgement? Well then why would you ship an animal SAVER? You should ALWAYS ship express and not saver specially when the temps are low like this. That is just plain cheap and unacceptable. If you did not like the idea of shipping it in this weather than either you do not ship it, wait for better temps, or you pack the animal extra careful to ENSURE it arrives safe and sound. Noone can MAKE you ship an animal that you feel you should not. If the customer can not wait a few days then refund the money and let the customer go somewhere else. You can't tell me that you needed the money from this sale so bad that you are willing to go against your own judgement? It does not matter how many packages you receive or send out, if you send one in an improper fashion even if the rest are perfect that one is still not acceptable. It really is not her responsibilty to track the package and let you know it is late. You are RESPONSIBLE for the contents of your shipment until they arrive at your customer safe and sound. PERIOD!
And as far as the animal not being represented as c.b. she posted an e-mail from you that states that you call it c.b. I would personally like to see the all of the e-mail's posted in their entirety to see for sure. Anyone that sells import animal should do their best to remove any parasites on the animal(both internal and external) PERIOD. She did not state that the ticks were little baby ticks that could have been easily missed, but rather full bodied adult tick and are plainly visible in the nostrils. I can tell you this, if sending animals via UPS Saver is your practice you will soon have more post like this on the BOI. I import and sell Black Throat Monitors myself and there is NO reason to ever ship one with TICKS. The only reason anyone would ever ship with Ticks (specially this size tick) would be they got it in, unpacked it and dod not even look at it before shipping it off again, or the person just did not care enough to take 5 extra minutes to remove the parasites.
Also what Diana did in another situation has nothing to bear on this situation. This is a situation between you and her and the arrival of this Monitor.
 
~WHOOAHH!!

~Well said, Rob!!

~There is no point in me posting my opinion since it would mirror yours. Alison's reply reminded me of school kids trying to make themselves look good by pointing out another person's faults or wrongdoings, there by shifting the attention.

~And you are so right, NO sale is so important that you risk the health and welfare of the animal involved.
 
If shipping the monitor so soon was against your judgement, why was it offered for sale in the first place. Wouldn't you expect someone who paid for an animal to want it as soon as possible, and if you didn't think it was wise to ship so soon why didn't you hold on to the animal until you felt better about shipping it. And could you explain how long a short while is

Steve Schindler
 
I would be happy to forward both emails from Upstate where they had first claimed the monitor was CB and then the one where they denied it and said he was an import to anyone wanting to see them. And if they really wanted me to wait to ship I would have been fine with it, I know how cold it is up here in the northeast, I just ASSUMED the animal would be properly packaged, not to mention tick free, ao I told them to go ahead. I forwarded the email where they stated that the monitor was CB bred to them so she is just lying through her teeth when saying see never said it. And when I said 5-6 heat packs I was exagerating but the box DEFINATELY needed more heat packs. I knew he was going to use 2 heat packs but I figured they would use an appropriate sized box that only needed 2. I did tell them though that I felt 3 would be better but obviously didn't listen. Just watch out for Upstate Exotics.

and I didn't ship thows animals 3 day priority. I shipped them express but they were held up in the mail for an extra day but I packaged them very well and they arrived alive and fine. My only mistake was shipping USPS and I'll never do it again. Even though this has NOTHING to do with this deal I thought I'd let you all know.
 
Upstate Exotics,
Do you deny sending that email that says it was a 2 year old CB monitor?
Also, if you want to be taken seriously you really need to learn how to identify the reptiles you are selling. You had an ad a few weeks ago selling a yellow tail cribo and I emailed you for pics. (You sent me pics of a yellow ratsnake). Now you have an ad on Kingsnake for a Everglades ratsnake that has been placed several times:
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=6&de=55398
Needless to say, that aien't no rossalleni.
It's getting easier and easier to believe that you misrepresented her monitor as well.
Chris Raden
 
upstate WELL it dont look good for you,,and shame on you for admitting yourself it was to cold to ship and then doing it anyway? thats rediculous(of course PROPER PACKING would probably have helped)but to say because the cust. wanted it HELLOHELLO:eek: THE CUST. MADE YOU??WEAK??and as far as the c.b. thing? your cust. has posted one of your emails stating c.b./?/?,,,,,? eenolookeegood upstate exoTICKS,,i would try to save face admit wrong and offer a full refund w/apoligee ,,for shameforshame,,,,,,thomas davis T&S reptile farm;)
 
Upstate still hasn't emailed me an apology but I do expect a full refund because since this is an import I'm going to have probably to pay more in vet bills than what I orignally paid for he animal. I'll keep you all updated on this deal though and let you know whether or not they give me my money back. And thankyou everyone for your opinions, Upstate was starting to make me feel like I DID do something wrong until that last email they sent me about how I should expect to get an animal with ticks all over it. Last night I found 2 more; one in his left arm pit and one on his vent. So obviously they didn't even look at him when they got him and thought they could make a quick buck by selling him as a cb. I've done some stupid things in the past but I would NEVER misrepresent an animal like this, not to mention sell one covered with ticks.
 
Note to self: Never do business with Upstate Exotics. misrepresent their animals, only in it to make a quick buck!
 
Thanks a bunch

I would like to thank you for posting this on here. I was looking at an ad for a reptile from Upstate Exotics on their website just a few days ago. I live fairly close to them in NY and figured it might be a good place but after this maybe not. I hope you post your final outcome with Upstate to let us know if they are in it for the buck or in it for the reptiles.
Thanks,
Justin Braga
Blue Moon Reptiles
 
I just noticed that Upstate Exotics is advertising c.b. baby White Throat Monitors on KS. I wonder if these are truly c.b. animals or some of the wild caught babaies that just arrived not that long ago and being sold by some of the Wholesalers here in Florida.
 
I too saw an animal that they were misrepresented in the classifieds on the colubrid section of Kingsnake. I am not saying that they did it on purpose though. It was a white sided bullsnake ( very dark one at that ) that was being sold as an albino Southern pinesnake. I emailed them, to be helpful, and told them what it actually was and they responded saying that is was sold to them as an albino southern pine. The ad was changed the next day.

I don't know them, so I can't really say much, but just threw my 2 cents in on the whole representing animals subject.

Take care!
Billy Fraser
 
Gracie,

I agree with everyone here: Upstate Exotics, less than ideal shipping conditions, misrepresented animal, etc. etc.

What I don't agree with is:

Upstate still hasn't emailed me an apology but I do expect a full refund because since this is an import I'm going to have probably to pay more in vet bills than what I orignally paid for he animal.
Click to expand...

In MHO you don't get to keep the monitor and receive a full refund. One thing or the other. If the monitor is in such bad of a shape that shipping him back will put his life at risk then I agree you should not ship him back. Wait until he recovers and then ship him for a full refund. Let the people of Upstate Exotics know the expenses in which you are planning to incurr. If he doesn't doesn't make it in spite of all your efforts, then yes, a full refund is warranted. But if you received something with that you are not satisfied with, you should return it for a full refund (first make sure they agree to that!!!).

Just my opinion.
 
Don't worry, I was planning to wait until he's doing better and for the temps to warm up before shipping him back. Upstate emailed me tonight stating they will give me a refund but not a FULL one. Here is the email sent to me:

"I have no problem with refunding you your money. I will send the $30 to you via PayPal to cover the cost of shipping him, back to us. Once the weather warms a bit you can ship him back. Once he is received here I will paypal $165 for the original cost of the monitor. You agreed to our shipping terms and I cannot refund the money for the original shipping. You can place a claim with UPS for the original shipping costs incurred, however the animal did arrive alive.

Thanks

Upstate Exotics
Sal & Alison Tornambene
P.O. Box 119
Cossayuna, NY 12823
1-866-PETS-499
518-692-3101
518-692-7387
http://www.UpstateExotics.com
[email protected]
AOL Screen Name: UpstateExotics"

BARELY alive. It was not UPS's fault that the animal was packaged poorly and arrived half dead. I paid $192.15 for the monitor including shipping and want it all back as well as the $30 it'll cost to ship it back. I shouldn't have to pay ANYTHING out of my pocket because they screwed up. And since they already lied to me once I want my money BEFORE I ship it back not after they get it. I'll keep you all updated on this.
 
Maybe this is one of those rare instances where a COD would apply?


And I do have to agree (grudgingly) that if you agreed to shipping terms they are not obligated to refund you. Offering to pay for it to be shipped back to them is a nice offer (although it should be expected) and at least shows they are willing to work with you. (now that you've aired their dirty laundry to potential customers)
 
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