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    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Upstate Exotics (BAD GUY)

Well, i live in maine and unfortunately do not have access to any knowledgable herp vets anyhow
no access? okay it is cool
so yes i or her could drive 2hrs to a somewhat qualified vet
now you have acdcess to one? I will let this one slide. I might be reaching anyway.
one, the time line does not matter so get off your high horse with that, nuff said
Oh you mean if you lie about what happened. And when then it does not matter? Okay I got it
i would not do anything unless i got my refund FIRST, period.
You are the big business....I am the nobody. I just thought that no animals no refund. I guess I was wrong.
When i was talking about piddly **** dealers i was of course referring to the people that are not a real biz
So......are you a real business?
I know you dont see your faults but you DO come off like you are trying to belittle me and insult me and make yourself seem as if you know all.
Interesting....now lets see some of your statements...specially with your first post on this subject.

"Well, i do not usually deal with little piddly **** dealers like this "
"every idiot knows you only know if it IBD by a blood test, i told these morons that many times by email and AIM. BUT their are symptoms and any person who says so in defending them is a complete idiot and has no right discussing herps"
"i am sure you are just a cowering fool hiding behind your computer pointing fingers at everybody else because you are jealous that you yourself do not have a business to run. "
"I came here to try and help warn people and i get **** on. Well **** you!"
"look what i get, dickheads like you ragging me out when it comes to things that do not concern you."
"Speak when spoken to, otherwise, shut the **** up.
"

hippo......hypo....oh yeah..hypocrite....p.s. public board...it concerns me.
i am sure you are just a cowering fool hiding behind your computer pointing fingers at everybody else because you are jealous that you yourself do not have a business to run.
Like I said before..I will say again...are you a business?
i should have known that as soon as i came to this board people would start being judgmental and reading into things,
okay believe in you blindly....spedcially if you are lying.
thought their would be some sympaty and some happy people for me sharing this
Sympathy? Oh poor Dallas. He deserves a refund and totally went about it the wrong way. He could not keep his story straight. He claims the e-mails were doctored...but still refuses to put up his own version. poor poor Dallas.
There is ALWAYS more to learn, nuff said
Learn this. If it ws IBD or somekind of infection...those snake would sitill be jerking until now. Actually I am wrong. They were sent from upstate exotics with IBD.....But after staying at your house.....They are now cured.
 
Here's where I found that info.

Somehow that doesn't surprise me...

The author of that website supports a ban on reptiles in the pet trade and has utilized thinly veiled accusations of IBD to badmouth a number of prominent breeders/dealers to further her agenda in that direction, her information is highly suspect as she would love to give the impression that IBD is easily diagnosed and to give the impression that it is more common than it actually is in order to scare people away from buying animals...

Without going TOO off topic in that direction, since it's one of my favorite subjects...

The last line saying that the only way to verify the presence or absence of the inclusion bodies is to perform a necropsy is the only one of any real worth in what had been written...

IBD can not be diagnosed with a blood test... the blood test would only be performed when the condition is suspect, when the condition is suspect, the same rules apply; immediate quarantine, followed by euthanasia and necropsy when it becomes evident that the animal will not survive the condition... Making the blood tests pretty useless.

If the animals are honestly suspected of having IBD, it won't be too long before they die (really it's likely they would have already or will be any day now) after the symptoms of neurological disorders are displayed... it's not something the animals can get better from... A necropsy should be done immediately (don't freeze the animal) when one dies, even if Upstate refuses to refund the cost of the necropsy or the cost of the animals, if they're sending out animals that have IBD, then the remainder of their animals have been exposed... no boids should be purchased and no other animals by the owners of anyone with boids or who comes in contact with them...

However, the animals have either not died yet... or Dallas has not chosen to describe the death or the onset of symptoms, which are quick in young animals after the signs are first displayed...

Which leads one to make the hesitant conclusion that the animals do not have IBD and that there is likely some other cause.

My sarcastic comments asking Dallas about his expertise and knowledge on the condition were obviously tongue in cheek however... It's a very serious accusation to make, tantamount to yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater, because of the universally fatal and highly communicable nature of the condition... and the difficulties in pinpointing the EXACT causitive agent... it's not appropriate to accuse ANYONE of having animals with IBD unless there is absolute undeniable proof to verify the accusations... Which he hasn't got.

I tend to consider a more likely cause, as Ritchie has been doing... it's far more likely (given that he hasn't talked about the ever worsening condition or death of the animals) that there was a temporary cause for the symptoms Dallas observed. As has been listed... there are hundreds of potential toxins in our houses, unless Dallas never uses any aerosol products, cleaning agents, paints, non-radiant heating in his home, nonstick cookware, markers or inks... the list becomes enormous when specific products are listed... Has an extensive tap water analysis performed from a sealed sample taken from every time he has refilled the water dishes or misted... He can't claim it's impossible that there wasn't a secondary cause.

Upstate has shown themselves pretty obviously to be oblivious to the proper way to treat their customers; ignoring concerns, lying in ads and e-mails, misrepresenting animals on multiple occasions despite being corrected, violating their own terms and conditions to the detriment of the customer and refusing to do the right thing until pressured with damage to their reputation...

None of that makes it acceptable to accuse them of selling animals with IBD unless there is proof.

None of that makes it acceptable to lie about the problem the animals are displaying, an honest description would have been "The animals heads are twitching and they seem to have RI, I'm worried about the possibility of IBD, I would like to return them for a refund."

None of that excuses inconsistencies and lies in a story or timeline.

Just because somebody is a bad guy, it does not excuse dishonesty towards them on the part of others. Lying in order to get back at a crook makes someone just as bad as the person who ripped them off.
 
man what is your problem?

Stop acting like a fool by bringing OLD news into this and also things that have nothing to do with me getting ripped off. How old was that post? cant you come up with something new. The intellegent ones on here have said that the stuff you keep going on about means nothing, the fact is that i em entitled to a refund, so why do you keep playing games. Are you 12? i started to read what you posted, thinking you may of said something intellegent for a change, I WAS WRONG! i will not even acknowledge your idiotic replies anymore because you are a child and children are sent to their room not confronted like an adult. you are waaayy to much for me. If i want this i can go to kindergarten for the day. get off your high horse and act like an adult. i have and fully apologized for getting so upset a while back. But you, you are still acting like a boy. i will no longer respond to things from YOU that have nothing to do with the fact that Upstate exotics ripped me off. So can just laugh at you when you keep posting because i now realize just how little your opinion means to me and i dont think anyone else with an IQ above 70 cares either. You are a very sick individual which is obvious by the way you evade the real discussion and concentrate on cutting people down, giving your "theories", etc etc etc i could go on all day. You cant even remember someone elses post well enough to just type out a reply, you instead have to edit theirs and spoil their words by putting yours down in between them. This must give a good chance to sit and ponder some good lines/replies. Also i never said i was a big biz, but those are the main people i deal with and this is why. What i said before about i would not wish this on you. i hope by all means you DO get ripped off for a LOT of money, just so i can sit and gloat. Dont expect to replies, i do not answer to twisted, sick, mindless individuals who do not have the ability to concentrate on the real situation but to belittle others. So you can keep picking apart every sentence to show off your great intellect to everyone but no one cares. you are washed up, get over it. Grow up. Later.....

Dallas Quarles
 
Are you 12?

will not even acknowledge your idiotic replies anymore because you are a child and children are sent to their room not confronted like an adult.

i do not answer to twisted, sick, mindless individuals who do not have the ability to concentrate on the real situation but to belittle others


Anyone besides me find the above quotes rib bruisingly hilarious?
 
siemen

The same goes to you. YES it can be tested by blood, it was done and i am sorry if you do not believe it but you are WRONG. Also, i never said that the snakes had IBD for sure. Man read what has already been stated. i said it LOOKS LIKE it. that is all, nothing less, nothing more. man, why is it that certain people just LOVE to keep carrying on about things that are in the past, worn out and just done with. move on, get over it ok. i did not say they had it i said they were sick animasl and at most i at first appearance that is what it looked like. my girlfreind just read some of these posts and said you guys are definatly out of your mind and i should stop messing with this. She is right, settle down kids....

Dallas Quarles
 
i am sure you are just a cowering fool hiding behind your computer pointing fingers at everybody else because you are jealous that you yourself do not have a business to run.
How old is this post? ummm let me see... YESTERDAY It was posted on March first 2003. Today is March second. yup the post is real old.
Stop acting like a fool by bringing OLD news into this
Well that stuff ws posted yesterday...but we should not bring up old news....Hey....your snakes jerking and shaking is older news...But lets not talk about that. Because that is an even OLDER news
I WAS WRONG! i will not even acknowledge your idiotic replies anymore because you are a child
Actually you won't acknowledge them because you would just dig yourself deeper.
Acknowledge this...what about that time line? What really happened?
why is it that certain people just LOVE to keep carrying on about things that are in the past, worn out and just done with. move on, get over it ok
We point out inconsitencies in your story...all of a sudden you want us to move on. All of a sudden it is old news and not worth worrying about? I guess upstate should not refund you anything. It is old news anyway.
Stop acting like a fool by bringing OLD news into this and also things that have nothing to do with me getting ripped off.
So you telling me I am jealous of Big legitimate Business as yourself.....you are telling me that has something to do with you getting ripped off? Oh wait...I forgot.....You are not a business either. But don't answer that. You will make yourself look like a fool for making fun of the little people. When the truth is...you are little people like us.
i hope by all means you DO get ripped off for a LOT of money, just so i can sit and gloat.
Ain't gonna happen....oh wait..what did you say about me being sick and twisted? You know I would not wish for anyone to get ripped off. You are right..I must be sick and twisted. I sure hope to become normal like you....I would like to wish people to get ripped off.
i do not answer to twisted, sick, mindless individuals who do not have the ability to concentrate on the real situation
You mean you do not answer to individuals who see the real situation and specially see the smoke screen you have put up just to get people to take your side.
So you can keep picking apart every sentence to show off your great intellect
Thank you. I will. I am glad you recognize great intellect. I was getting worried about you. But I guess there is still hope.

Dallas,
we do not "attack" everyone that posts.
Do you see Gracie getting attacked? NO!!
Want to know why. She came here and posted her facts and stuck to one story and one timeline.

You on the other hand Have put up numerous timelines amongst other things that do not add up.
Is it right for upstate to rip off gracie? No
Is it right for upstate to sen you sick animals? Well if they really sent you sick animals...then they are in the wrong.
Is it right that you would put up different timelines/stories just to get people to be on your side? HE!! NO !!
 
Honestly, Dallas, you should stop with the infantile gestures such as name calling (ie. Seimin) and drop the smokescreen. Seriously, the best thing you could do right now would be to check your ego at the door, quit avoiding questions, and simply answer all questions put to you in a simple and direct manner. Try to view this seggustion objectively, take a step back, and look at what you are doing. No one that is told this ever does it, and consequently, their reputation goes into the gutter. Please, surprise me by heeding this advice and approach this situation rationally and honestly.
 
Dallas, was 15 points not enough to get it through your head? The same thing that was said to Chris Duncan applies to you... either tone it down, or leave.

I could care less who peed in your Wheaties or what chip you have on your shoulder- the tenor of your replies is once again becoming unacceptable. Either post sans ad hominem and juvenile rhetoric, or don't post at all.
 
From the Merriam-Webster's online dictionary:

Moron : Etymology: irregular from Greek mOros foolish, stupid
Date: 1910
1 : a mentally retarded person who has a potential mental age of between 8 and 12 years and is capable of doing routine work under supervision
2 : a very stupid person


Idiot : Etymology: Middle English, from Latin idiota ignorant person, from Greek idiOtEs one in a private station, layman, ignorant person, from idios one's own, private; akin to Latin suus one's own -- more at
Date: 14th century
1 : a person affected with idiocy; especially : a feebleminded person having a mental age not exceeding three years and requiring complete custodial care
2 : a foolish or stupid person



You know . . .just in case anyone wanted to know . . .not that I would ever ascribe such descriptions to anyone in this thread!
 
I've read a bit on the negative of upstate exotics and really wonder what kind of people they are. I saw a post on KS lizards for sale where they are selling an Eastern glass lizard for $60. Its not my business what prices people put on their animals, but this one has gone too far. Here is an e-mail I sent them. I have never replied to an posts about the rediculous prices asked for animals, but after seeing the post of $60 for an estern glass lizard I was shocked and must let you know that that is absolutely the most absurd asking price for this animal. I find them all the time and even if I wasn't in the part of the country where they are found I certainly wouldn't pay $60. I've read some bad things on another forum about upstate exotics and I can understand now why there is so much negitave about you. You are obviously out for making cash no matter what and people like you should be banned from being able to sell to people that really care about herps. I have never replied to an posts about the rediculous prices asked for animals, but after seeing the post of $60 for an estern glass lizard I was shocked and must let you know that that is absolutely the most absurd asking price for this animal. I find them all the time and even if I wasn't in the part of the country where they are found I certainly wouldn't pay $60. I've read some bad things on another forum about upstate exotics and I can understand now why there is so much negitave about you. You are obviously out for making cash no matter what and people like you should be banned from being able to sell to people that really care about herps. Man, usually I am a pretty quiet type of guy that minds his own business and is also quite nice to others, even on the net, but for some reason this just got to me. Here is the add: http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=34&de=71110
Mike Smoker
 
Why GEEEEE....

Thank you so much for your insight....

However, you missed to state a few things...

ONE: The glass lizard is $60 WITH shipping, which means shipping is normally $30-$35 via UPS and that leaves $25-$30 for the lizard....

TWO: You have NEVER done business with us, NOR have you seen our facility, so until you do either of the following, you have no right to pass judgement on us for "not caring for animals"

Everyone is in this business to make some money, otherwise everyone would be selling animals for FREE.

So if you do not like the price, please DON'T buy it....but DO NOT come to a public forum and try to state we DO NOT care for animals over the price of a lizard. Considering we are in NY and cannot get glass lizards and easy as you can.

But hell, everyone's entitled to make an opinion.....but you are accusing us of something...which is NOT an opinion.
 
You know I really hate it when I have to agree and side with Upstate Exotics....


Mike Smoker, your only legitimate gripe is that you feel Upstate Exotics is asking too much for this particular animal? Excuse them for trying to make a living... if you don't want to pay it go elsewhere, if someone asks you where to find a reasonably priced animal tell them to go elsewhere, but to use this as a means of bashing a company is really uncalled for.

Overpriced for your standards? Sure.
Only out for cash? Based on what you've stated, I can't provide the same conclusion you've come to.
 
Ticks

I know I'm a little late on this one but to the starter of this thread, the ticks you described sound like deer ticks, I find them all the time on myself when Ive been out in the woods down here in the south.
 
There are things I dont like about upstate too, but so what, I just don't buy from them. This forum is not for pettiness or personal opinion.
If you dont like it dont buy, that simple. It is their choice on what they sell and how much they sell it for.
I suggest if you dont have a legit complaint about something they did TO you, then don't write.
 
Agreed...

I agree, I have been tempted to buy from upstate many times but their occassional sketchy pictures and rude replies to my emails deterred me...im glad now!
 
Mike Smoker

I have never replied to an posts about the rediculous prices asked for animals, but after seeing the post of $60 for an estern glass lizard I was shocked and must let you know that that is absolutely the most absurd asking price for this animal.

Everyone has the right to ask a price for a certain animal. You may think it's absurd, but that would simply mean you don't have to buy it instead of complaining....I don't like the current price of gas, but I don't go into a station and complain to the one that is 10c a gallon more expensive that their prices are absurd, instead I go to the one across the street that's 10c cheaper and move on.

I find them all the time and even if I wasn't in the part of the country where they are found I certainly wouldn't pay $60.

THEN DON'T - What is the point of all this.........."I wouldn't pay that as I get them all the time??"

Rather hollow and pointless to be even be stating this.

I think the whole point for you would be to not buy from them instead of trashing them over the price of a lizard. Move on to the next seller!

This forum is for legit purposes not pricing!
 
This forum is not for pettiness or personal opinion.

I suggest if you dont have a legit complaint about something they did TO you, then don't write.

This doesn't gel with me. In this vein, I could say, "What has Mike Smoker done to you? If you don't have a legit complaint against him, then don't write." Any statements that he should not hve posted that are opinions. Fact is, opinions are allowed on this forum. It is ok for a person who has no dealings with a company or individual to voice their opinion here. If not for the contribution of non-involved posters, many problems would go unresolved. He has as much right to post what he did as any of the rest of you have to post what you did. Just keep in mind that when someone says something, anything, about someone else, and you tell them not to post if they don't have a legit compaint against that person or business dealings with them, you are being a hypocrite, as you are doing exactly what you are telling them not to do.
 
Uffern

Fact is, opinions are allowed on this forum. It is ok for a person who has no dealings with a company or individual to voice their opinion here. If not for the contribution of non-involved posters, many problems would go unresolved.

I guess you could state that a forum is a place to express a persons own "Freedom of Speach."

If not, then what is a forum for?
 
Just a small additional thought...

First off... Richard, good call and one I fully agree with. The secondary parties who have voiced an opinion in the threads on this forum hold a distinct and very real value when making comments about ANY situation. There is simply a certain additional value given to individuals with direct experience or who are willing to provide evidences and proof.

Secondly... Who says that the comments weren't possessing a value above what would normally be assigned to an opinion?

Upstate has shown themselves to be many things...

They have terrible customer service.

They misrepresent animals as being CB when they are not.

They misrepresent an animal's SPECIES even when corrected.

They have shipping issues.

They have packaging issues.

They lie in ads and E-mails.

They never had to undergo any liscencing proccess to start a pet store by their own admission.

The only people seemingly willing to support them unconditionally or deffend their animals are all highly suspect and don't know how to behave like human beings on a message board forum (ignore my warning points, they make me look bad).

So... Looking at what was stated about the ad in question... That they were selling a fairly commonly seen indiginous (To the US) herp that is most often wild caught and, as with most indiginous and not protected herps... there's no real price difference between CB and WC that makes it worth breeding... If someone Emailed them, would they properly represent it or would they lie to justify their asking price?

They already have the line "You rarely see these around!" in the ad, indicating that Glass Lizards are difficult to find avaliable for purchase (They're not hard to find at all and are seen fairly commonly, especially on the big resalers price lists because they buy and resell WC herps). While this isn't exactly a lie... Meaning, it might be situationally true for that Joe Neophyte who shops at Petco and only bought a computer three days ago and wants something to put in the tank next to his fire belly toads... It's certainly at best a half truth and a verbal misrepresentation...

So despite the fact that anyone who finds Fauna probably already knows this... Why not give just one more example of how Upstate is a crooked organization? Every additional piece of evidence helps, right?

These people are at best, Carnival Hawkers, asking you to step right up to see the amazing mermaid body in a jar for three dollars... At worst, they're outright crooks who misrepresent animals for the expressed purpose of charging the naive consumer far more than is reasonable... not quite Jesse Underhill bad-guys, but misrepresentation is misrepresentation and these people have shown themselves to need to have a twenty page BOI thread dropped on their heads before they even think about issuing refunds or trying to come to some reasonable solution after they have ripped someone off and lied.

Think of all the poor suckers who haven't found this site because it's not allowed to be mentioned... Who are responding to these KS ads and plunking down an extra forty five bucks for some (probably, if history is any indication) parasite ridden wild caught herp after being lied to via emails and the ad that will cost them an extra $400 in vet bills if they want it to live...

... and take every piece of further misdoing... every bit of extra evidence and misinformation... and add it to the reputation of Upstate... So when you go to your local herp society meeting and talk to that kid with the firebelly toads and his paper route money who tells you he found the ad... You remember this and you mention it in conversation so that he doesn't get ripped off.
 
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