Upstate Exotics ??? (help me)!

[Living Art Reptiles]

Upstate Exotics.

August 14, 2003
Claim #: 7987-30APR03
Upstate Exotics
61 Lemaire Way
Cossayuna NY 12823

Attention: Sal & Alison Tornambene

Dear Upstate Exotics.
Subject: Refund that has yet to be issued.

Sal and Alison Tornambene, please give me my rightful refund. I asked on 04/19/03 for my refund. I opened dispute claim #: 7987-30APR03 in the total of $180.00 on 04/30/03 against Upstate Exotics. Today’s date is 08/14/03 and I yet to receive a refund. If you do not have the means to settle with Bank of America then let me know. If you choose to send me a money order for the full amount made in the name of Anthony Pappalardo I will in fact contact then and relay this information. Thanks so much for you time and assistance in this important matter.



Regards,
Anthony Pappalardo

 

[UpstateExotics1]

Look, Tony really did get his refund. I am working on trying to get it scanned to post.

When Tony wanted a refund, we called our partner and told him the situation and asked for them to refund Tony. Which was done.

I have the paper here showing it was charged back to his account. I apologize if this makes it look like Tony has not received his money, but I assure you he has.

Granted time to time on here things haven't been the best for us, but everything IS resolved with everyone, including Tony. Now it's just a matter of getting everyone to believe us.

Like I said, I am working on trying to get this scanned in. All our credit cards get run directly though us now, when earlier in the year, like I stated, his card was run through our partner.

 

[ms_terese]

Alison,

ONE MORE TIME. Regardless of who "ran" the credit, do you NOT have access to the bank records from your merchant bank during that period? If so, the charge and the credit will show on that statement. What the hell difference does it make which machine the transaction was authorized on?

Again, the proof of a transaction does not come out of the processing equipment. It comes from either A) your statement from your merchant bank, or B) a fax from your merchant bank if you lost your statement.

I don't care who ran it, as long as it was done by Upstate Exotics merchant account. If this "partner" ran it under a different merchant account number, I think you're both about to lose your merchant accounts. This is a *very* serious offense in the banking industry, and falls under merchant credit card fraud. Huge fines.

 

[DThomas]

If this "partner" ran it under a different merchant account number, I think you're both about to lose your merchant accounts. This is a *very* serious offense in the banking industry, and falls under merchant credit card fraud. Huge fines.

Yup, it's called money laundering. Can someone say "IRS?"

 

[Living Art Reptiles]

Upstate Exotics.

Hi Rozann,
How are you? Please don’t take this the wrong way. Buts lets entertain this thought for a moment

(Quote) Stardust
Alison, I have a feeling you will owe a big, huge apology to Tony, I don't know if you are lying or you really don't know but suspect that that refund never came through.




(Quote) Upstate Exotics 08/14/03

Here's the info for Tony's money:

#1.
Reference Number: 24455013091091310462595
Card Holder Account Number: **************884
Invoice Number: 777884
Invoice Date: TXN AMT $80
Date: 04/01/03

#2.
Reference Number: 24455013087087310543828
Card Holder Account Number:**************884
Invoice Number: 2777884
Invoice Date: TXN AMT $100
Date: 03/28/03


This first sequence shows Upstate Exotics extracting funds from my account. There were no issues on 03/28/03 I was trying to purchase the snake.


My email
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Message about : '01 MALE HET YELLOW GHOST BALL PYTHON


Hi Alison,
My information is as follows, Anthony Pappalardo address removed. Visa debit card account number has been removed expiration date is removed. You can take the $100.00 deposit today. Thanks and have a great day!

Thank you,
Tony.





Upstate Exotics reply.
Subj: RE: Message about : '01 MALE HET YELLOW GHOST BALL PYTHON
Date: 3/28/2003 1:57:48 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent from the Internet (Details)




Ok, I ran it through with no problem. I will put him as sold. If you have any questions, please let me know.


Thanks!!




The next set of sequences shows Upstate Exotics extracting funds from my account on 04/01/03. Still there were no issues on 04/01/03; I was obviously trying to purchase the snake.



My email
Subj: (no subject)
Date: 4/1/2003 11:29:22 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: T BONE 9157
To: [email protected]/



HI,
I wanted to know if you could take $80.00 today out of my account towards the payments. I know I had mentioned the last payment would be $80.00, but I have the money now so I would like to put it in now. Please let me know if you need any information. Thanks for your time.

Thank you,
Tony.



UPSTATE EXOTICS REPLY

Subj: RE: Payment.
Date: 4/1/2003 12:19:49 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent from the Internet (Details)




Hi
Do you want me to take out the $80.00 from your credit card # you gave to me before?


Thanks!!!







MY EMAIL

Subj: Re: Payment.
Date: 4/1/2003 12:23:25 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: T BONE 9157
To: [email protected]



Hi,
yes this would be fine. Thanks and have a great day.

Thank you,
Tony.






Now the next sequence shows me trying to make a payment on 04/06/03 for the amount of $50.00. This payment was ahead of the scheduled payment plan. Then I received the letter from Upstate Exotics saying they lost my paper work. At this point 04/06/03 I was entitled to a refund. The same refund they are claiming they gave me on 03/28/03 and 04/01/03. There were no issues with my purchase on the dates 03/28/03 and 04/01/03. Problem began on 04/06/03, so how is it possible Upstate Exotics refunded me on these dates?



MY EMAIL
Subj: Pyment on 100% het Yellow Ghost Ball.
Date: 4/6/2003 3:10:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: T BONE 9157
To: [email protected]



Hi,
How are you? I wanted to know if you could take out $50.00 dollars from my credit card account to put toward my payment plan? I know the payments have been made a head of schedule but I like to pay when I get the money. How is the weather? Is it snowing? Talk to you soon and have a great day! PS can you please email me with confirmation? Thanks.

Thank you,
Tony.



UPSTATE EXOTICS REPLY.
Subj: RE: Pyment on 100% het Yellow Ghost Ball.
Date: 4/6/2003 3:20:30 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent from the Internet (Details)



I was going through my paperwork this morning. I cannot find the paperwork for this het ghost. I found all the other het papers except this one. I'm not sure if I had sent it out by mistake, but I know for sure this is het for yellow ghost from Corey Estill. Please let me know if you are still interested. I can take off $50 for the mix up if you're still interested, if not I can refund you the money.

Sorry about the confusion.


Thanks!!!

Upstate Exotics
Sal & Alison Tornambene
http://www.upstateexotics.com
[email protected]
1-866-PETS-499
518-692-3101




Now this next sequence shows on 04/19/03 I requested my rightful refund. Upstate never even mentions the fictitious refund that was suppose to be given to me according to her post on 08/14/03, the dates created for the refunds are on 03/28/03 and 04/01/03. Fact, I never asked for a refund until 04/19/03. I still find it so curious on why a company would refund the same day I made my payment? The problem with the paper work started on 04/06/03. Also notate in Alison’s reply to me dated 04/19/03 she is still trying to fix the problem with the paper work. She mentions how she is still trying to contact Corey and that his wife is suppose to call her back. Public notation (This purchase has nothing to do with me and Corey, it is solely between my self and Upstate Exotics).


MY EMAIL
Subj: 100% het Yellow ghost Ball Python.
Date: 4/19/2003 10:57:37 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: T BONE 9157
To: [email protected]



Hi Sal & Allison,
how are you? I know you are busy and IM sorry about what happened to your dog. The one thing I want to stress is communication with your customers. Listen, the last email I received from you was on 04/06/03 in which you explained you had lost or misplaced the paper work. You also explained in the same email you would give full refund or give $50.00 off the price. I wrote three emails after that 04/08/03, 04/09/03,04/12/03. I received no response from these emails. I have talked to Sal and yourself several times by phone since I was not getting email responses. I have left my phone number several times with no returned calls. It seems the only time we communicate is when I call you long distance which cost me money. Today is 04/19/03. I talked to Sal yesterday and he said he would contact me and he never did. I have been very patient and understanding. I think you should understand I am your customer and its not my job to keep in contact with you. Your company is a place of business and should keep your customer totally informed especially when something goes wrong. When an investment Ball Python no longer has papers verifying its genetics, it then becomes a regular Ball Python. I need you to contact me today, if you have not made resolution or substantial progress I would like a full refund in which Alison had stated on 04/06/03 the last email I had received from her. I would appreciate the refund in a timely manner. I was making all my payments ahead of schedule in good faith. I would appreciate the same treatment as far as the refund is concerned. Please email me back. As always thanks for your time. Have a good day.


Thank you,
Tony.





UPSTATE EXOTICS REPLY
Subj: RE: 100% het Yellow ghost Ball Python.
Date: 4/19/2003 1:19:47 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent from the Internet (Details)




Hi Tony!

Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, I had no new information to give you. We have been playing phone tag with Corey back and forth to try and find out what is going on. I spoke with his wife again and she said Corey would call me tonight at 5pm.

If you need to speak with us, you can call Toll-Free. We have always given you the 800# so there should be no reason why you are calling long-distance like you stated. All of our email and all of our ads have the toll free number.

Thanks!!

Alison Tornambene

Alison Tornambene
Upstate Exotics
http://www.upstateexotics.com
[email protected]
1-866-PETS-499
518-692-3101




This will show the first but not the last time Upstate Exotics publicly lied about my refund. This is dated 05/01/03. The first time they mentioned a refund was on 04/06/03. But Upstate Exotics is claiming to have refunded me on 03/28/03 and 04/01/03. Now remember she had mention in the email dated 04/19/03 she was still trying to get in touch with Corey. But claims I would not wait, I waited till 04/19/03. Yet the fictitious refund date is 03/28/03 and 04/01/03.

(Quote) Upstate Exotics 05/01/03
As far as replacing the paperwork, I have made numerous telephone calls to Corey Estill, as this is where the snake is from, and have been unsuccessful in reaching him. I did offer a refund to Tony if he chose not to wait for Corey to get back with us, and his refund was given.


Again all evidence against this company has been posted. No hear say only facts.


Thank you,
Tony.

 

[Sasheena]

Is it just me...?

Or is upstate just simply incapable of understanding that proving they TOOK the money is just NOT the same as proving they GAVE IT BACK?

 

[Wilomn]

Shasheena, it must be just you. It must be. Surely no one, not even sal and alison, could be so dense as to COMPLETELY NOT UNDERSTAND that the only thing I, and most likely many many many many others, actually believe about upchuck exotics is that they DID IN FACT take Tony's money. I mean, these people can't be walking rocks, they can't be incapable of thought, just look how creative they've been in sidetracking and not answering the simplest of questions.

It must be one of two things- either you're a woman and simply incapable of understanding something so complicated as this whole mess, or living in Az. has baked your brain. HMMMMMMM, I wonder which, if indeed it is in fact either of these. Let's see, since most of the women I know are far smarter than I am, not too tough but true none-the-less, I would seriously doubt it's just because you're a female that you don't understand why sal and alison can't seem to answer the simple yet serious question that has been asked of them, oh, what now, about a thousand times, being, in case you missed it as they seem to have done, WHERE IS TONY'S REFUND????? Now the baked brain thing might be valid, but then there's guys like Ken out in Vegas and he seems to be both smart and intelligent, so that sort or rules out the baked brain thing, unless of course, it is gender specific and only effects females........food for thought there.

I can't explain it but I don't see how they could not see the difference. Oh wait, maybe, come to think on it, they can't. They do seem to have a problem with wild caught and captive bred, thinking that the terms are interchangable, and with sizes, seeming to think that if you order babies it's ok to substitute subadults for them, and that without even asking if you want them to. Maybe they simply are too think to see the question, because they sure seem to be avoiding answering it.

Now, all you feminists and womens' libbers out there, take this with the tongue in cheek manner it was meant, I can be funny sometimes and once in a while I actually mean to be. If this didn't amuse you just a little, think about getting that humor chip updated.

Wes Pollock (Fauna Jester at large?)

Sometimes I really crack me up

 

[Sasheena]

Well I am FEMALE, and I do Live in AZ, but hey, I'm a math teacher, so I think that makes me at least SOUND smart (in case my degree in Statistics doesn't do that). As for the heat, can't be true. I'm allergic to the heat, so even though I live in a hot place, I rarely know it.... I have AC.

Now to keep this post on-topic, I'd like to just say what I would do if I were a business with a large inventory of animals and/or plenty enough money in the bank.

For Tony:

If I was sure I had made the refund, but then couldn't come up with any proof in a timely (let's say ONE WEEK) manner, I would:

a) if I was short on cash for whatever reason, I would offer up $250 + plus free shipping of my inventory. I would feel that would be only fair for all of the trouble I'd caused them. Of course there would be an understanding that if later proof came to light that they DID get the refund, we would revisit the issue, in some very amicable way.

b) if I was short on animals but long on money, send a good $250 or so Tony's way, the extra to demonstrate my remorse for keeping money longer than I should have done.

c) If I was REALLY messed up, house squished under an alien spaceship, brain surgery last week AND next, and half a dozen other extremely nasty circumstances, not least of which Nelson Mandela's ex-wife having cleaned out my bank balance when I just tried to do her a favor as per her highly confidential spammail to my yahoo account, then I would explain all the circumstances, apologize about a zillion times, and offer up some sort of payment plan, whatever it took to demonstrate my sincerity and remorse that my circumstances have left me with the acceptable and true label of CROOK until I had it all paid off.

For the person (name escapes me) who received ONE snake instead of TWO, AND the snake died, I would NEVER get all nitpicky and say "Bleah bleah bleah, you didn't do it the PRECISE way we say to do it so you're SOL"... instead I would kindly offer up a replacement, even if I had to purchase it from someone else, OR I would offer a refund in the amount of the purchase, plus shipping. Or maybe only half the shipping price so I could feel I got SOMETHING. (but I wouldn't do that, upstate might).

Anyway... I"m rambling. These are my thoughts. Luckily I'm just a high school math teacher, so I don't have these dilemmas. My philosophy for next year, when I have 50+ hatchlings, is that I will just be as honest as possible. Can't go wrong with that!

 

[Wilomn]

"My philosophy for next year, when I have 50+ hatchlings, is that I will just be as honest as possible. Can't go wrong with that!"

The above is true unless you use the same standard for honesty as sal and alison. They have proved abundantly just how wrong you can go by using whatever standard of honesty they do use, providing they use one at all.

Wes Pollock

 

[tishadi]

refund

.
Allison, how in the world does someone make a payment and get a refund the same day (3/28) and still send you more money on the 4/01?????????? I for one am not falling for any of these lies.
before you created refunds that never existed, you should have researched the thead a little better , proof provided in this thread definitely does not support your false claims of refunding to this person. In fact all evidence shown squashes your so called proof.

I would like to state again that no ligitimate co. would charge their cust $100, then refund the same amt on the same day ,same co a day later charges the customer$ 80 and on the same day refunds$ 80. i have read this thread throughly especially e-mail dated 04/19/03 when plainly this customer ask for refund. and your response is, you are still trying to work on the paper work. if refund was given on 3/28/03 and4/1/03 you would not still be trying to contact cory, and you would have mentioned to tony in the same email that a refund had already been given.

I am on the list of people who have not bought from upstate as yet, but after all the posts I've seen
from people who have, I will be on the difinate NO buy list

 

[UpstateExotics1]

Ok first off:

Yup, it's called money laundering. Can someone say "IRS?"

No it's not. Taxes are being paid on it, and it was run through our PARTNER'S MACHINE!!! There is a paper trail on it, so how is that laundering?

Also, I am just stating what the paper says here. You all can see it when I can scan in it. So until then I really don't know what to do. Those are the transaction dates. What I will do is call Tony's Credit card company tomorrow with those refernce numbers, which is what I already said TONY has to do to verify that reference number is to the CREDIT to his account.

Do I get an apology after all this when it's posted showing Tony got his money? That I'm real curious about. Will it show that we are not all as bad as you think we are? I don't think it will change anything, so I have to wonder, am I wasting my breath?

I will post this ASAP and will post what I find out when I call tomorrow.

 

[DThomas]

Ok first off:



No it's not. Taxes are being paid on it, and it was run through our PARTNER'S MACHINE!!! There is a paper trail on it, so how is that laundering?

First off, taxes being paid does not automatically exclude it from being money laundering. A couple of quick questions will clear everything up.

1. The money was run through your partner's machine. Who's account did it ultimately end up in? And when?

2. Is all of the money run through your partner's machine properly documented in UPSTATE EXOTICS' accounting?

3. Who paid the taxes? Your partner or Upstate Exotics?

4. Who is your partner? A seperate business?

I do this for a living and I know better than you what is and is not money laundering. Answer these couple of questions and it will clear everything all up.

 

[UpstateExotics1]

1. The money was run through your partner's machine. Who's account did it ultimately end up in? And when?

Ok. It went through his account. Once cleared, he cut us a check, which was deposited into Upstate Exotics.

2. Is all of the money run through your partner's machine properly documented in UPSTATE EXOTICS' accounting?

Yes, once we received the check from our partner, we put it in our books, with what it was for.

3. Who paid the taxes? Your partner or Upstate Exotics?

He pays the taxes, since it was run through his machine. We pay him whatever taxes he paid. (Keep in mind, we did not run thousands of dollars on this machine).

4. Who is your partner? A seperate business?

Yes, a seperate business. We are both in the same industry so if I don't have it, he has it, and visa versa.

 

[DThomas]

Thank you for the reply. A bit of warning for you. You can get the attention of the IRS and FBI if you continue to do business this way. If your books are off the slightest bit it can be construed as laundering. Running your assests through another company, on it's face, is money laundering. You are walking a fine line and in the grey here.

If your books are off, with more money going to your partner than you have coming from him, you will be in a world of hurt. If you have creditors, judgements against you, and so forth, this will look like, and will be easy to convince a jury, that you are trying to hide your company's assests. I strongly suggest you immediately stop this practice, obtain your own merchant account, and if that is not possible, atleast get paypal. If not, it is only a matter of time before you make a mistake and the Federal Government is unforgiving and the penalties are harsh.

 

[Living Art Reptiles]

Upstate Exotics.

Hi Sal And Alison,
On 03/28/03 I emailed you my personal and private information. To get verification for you to charge someone's card Sal and Alison you need private information. Name Address account number, this intern gives the ability to charge the customers card. I was not informed that same personal and private information would be given to a third party. Nor, I am sure were the other people whom credit cards you accessed. I believe that is a violation of privacy.

(Quote) Upstate Exotics
We contacted Tony to verify his information via telephone as we DO NOT keep records here of credit card numbers and I would not expect someone to list their credit card information via email.




You are constantly caught in lies. This email to you in fact you do accept personal information via email. Note again personal, sent to Upstate exotics not a third party or your so called business partner. Violation of privacy. I did not authorize this.


My email.
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Message about : '01 MALE HET YELLOW GHOST BALL PYTHON


Hi Alison,
My information is as follows, Anthony Pappalardo address removed. Visa debit card account number has been removed expiration date is removed. You can take the $100.00 deposit today. Thanks and have a great day!

Thank you,
Tony.


Upstate Exotics reply.
Subj: RE: Message about : '01 MALE HET YELLOW GHOST BALL PYTHON
Date: 3/28/2003 1:57:48 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent from the Internet (Details)




Ok, I ran it through with no problem. I will put him as sold. If you have any questions, please let me know.


Thanks!!





Credit card machine or terminals have there own I.d. numbers that identify the business. Two separate places of business are not supposed to share a single machine. So again this is admitted proof that my personal information was sent to a third party.There is something wrong with this picture.


(Quote) Upstate Exotics.
I am waiting on the information for Tony's refund b/c our partner was the one who ran all of our credit cards back earlier in the year. He has the information from his bank and that's why I am waiting on the fax. The refund was also put through that same machine.


(Quote) Upstate Exotics
We were still trying to get set up here with a credit card machine, which is why our partner ran the transactions.

(Quote) Upstate Exotics
I have the dates the card was run b/c my partner gave them to me over the phone. I asked him to fax the confirmation of the refund so I can post the confirmation. That's why I have those dates.



(Quote) Upstate Exotics
When Tony wanted a refund, we called our partner and told him the situation and asked for them to refund Tony. Which was done.

(Quote) Upstate Exotics
No it's not. Taxes are being paid on it, and it was run through our PARTNER'S MACHINE!!! There is a paper trail on it, so how is that laundering?




Now this is hilarious and sad. Alison the victim.

(Quote )Upstate Exotics
Do I get an apology after all this when it's posted showing Tony got his money? That I'm real curious about. Will it show that we are not all as bad as you think we are? I don't think it will change anything, so I have to wonder, am I wasting my breath?



I think the way you have treated you customers you definitely need to apologize to all who have suffered from you.. You have damned yourself with your own words, your own attitude. I want a public apology for you sending my personal information to another person, that I did to authorize you to do.



Thank you,
Tony.

 

[ms_terese]

So, I'm confused.

If this wasn't even your merchant account, then what proof have you been referring to that Tony's credit was issued before he even started this thread? Did your partner tell you it was? By the way, the bank will want to see some valid paperwork verifying a partnership in order to overlook what you're doing with this merchant account.

Is this partner a different partner than the one you're teaming up with now? How often do you switch business partners?

I will absolutely issue an apology if you can prove that Tony's credit was issued before he started this thread. However, now that you've made it clear that you had nothing to do with it, I seriously doubt you can prove it. What's worse, is that when your customer informed you that he hadn't received his credit, that you didn't immediately demand documentation in case there was some sort of glitch. Instead, you accused him of lying.

Also, don't try to say that you just "didn't have your machine" set up. Without an electronic scanner for a credit card, you are still issued a merchant ID and a merchant's assistance phone number. The only difference is that you then have to call the authorization center and get a card authorized. Only if you don't actually have a merchant account would you need to run it on another company's system.

Tony is also absolutely right. You violated federal law by giving his information to a 3rd party without his permission.

What a class act.

 

[Living Art Reptiles]

Hi Alison,
Why don't you try to go to page 35 about the fifth post down. Now try to read it third person, you know third person like you sent my personal and private information that I never had knowledge of nor didi I authorize. No follow the scenario ask your self the same questions that are posed. What do you get, right its not possible that a company would charge somebody and refund on the same day?


(Quote) Big Pappa
Now the next sequence shows me trying to make a payment on 04/06/03 for the amount of $50.00. This payment was ahead of the scheduled payment plan. Then I received the letter from Upstate Exotics saying they lost my paper work. At this point 04/06/03 I was entitled to a refund. The same refund they are claiming they gave me on 03/28/03 and 04/01/03. There were no issues with my purchase on the dates 03/28/03 and 04/01/03. Problem began on 04/06/03, so how is it possible Upstate Exotics refunded me on these dates?


But please feel free to address the whole post.





Question for all.
I would like to know how many people would appreciate their personal and private information being handed over to another party or place of business? When you did not authorize nor have knowledge of this.


Thank you,
Tony.

 

[Living Art Reptiles]

To make sure there is no misunderstanding, page 36 fifth post down. Which I have stated through the entire post my personal information was given out without my knowledge.




I think the way you have treated you customers you definitely need to apologize to all who have suffered from you. You have damned yourself with your own words, your own attitude. I want a public apology for you sending my personal information to another person, that I didn't authorize you to do.



Thank you,
Tony.

 

[Rob BryertonRKK]

I WOULD BE FURIOUS

if someone gave my CC information away to a third party!
Then after I calmed down I would find out what Authorities I needed to contact and would do so!
WOW! This is some serious stuff.
Rob

 

[Wilomn]

Wow alison, I had my waders on and everything and the crap just came right up over the top on this last bit of info.

I think it's that big ol' hillbilly Darin, hey, can a hillbilly have only one first name, but I digress, anyway, I think it's him that says " give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves."

alison, you just stepped up on the platform, put the noose around your neck and pulled the lever that will drop the floor out from under you.

If you keep going I bet you could dig your own grave, crawl in your own coffing and even bury yourself. Way to go!!!!

Wes Pollock