Upstate Exotics ??? (help me)!

[The BoidSmith]

Thanks for clarifying that point for me. From what I hear more than one person saw an hetero for piebald female first and now an hetero for albino. Where's the picture for the hetero for piebald? Was that animal sold?

Regards.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Thanks Terese,

It seems we were replying both at the same time.

Regards.

 

[Rob BryertonRKK]

Hi Alvaro, The same pic is there. Now the words have been changed to 0.1 Het Albino Boa. There are two Boas in the pic, the bottom one used to be a 0.1 Het Piebald Boa.
Albino and Piebald almost have the same # of letters. I could see where they may have gotten confused.
Later, Rob

 

[Living Art Reptiles]

Upstate Exotics.

This is Upstate exotics first reply.


Excuse #1.
Upstate Exotics.
I wasn't going to reply here as Tony's credit has been issued.


Excuse #2.
We had received an email from Tony explaining us to ignore all of his duplicate emails as there is a problem with his email. So what have we done.....

Here is the email:
"Hi Sal & Alison,
how are you? Please excuse any duplicate emails I may have sent to you. My account malfunctioned and repeated the sending process. Again I do apologize for this inconvenience. Thanks for your time and have a great evening."



Excuse #3.
We contacted Tony to verify his information via telephone as we DO NOT keep records here of credit card numbers and I would not expect someone to list their credit card information via email.


Excuse #4.
As far as replacing the paperwork, I have made numerous telephone calls to Corey Estill, as this is where the snake is from, and have been unsuccessful in reaching him. I did offer a refund to Tony if he chose not to wait for Corey to get back with us, and his refund was given.



Excuse #5.
I explained to Tony that if there is a problem to CALL ME, and he refuses to do so. But instead he chose to post here, which is not a telephone call.




Now lets take this step by step.


Excuse #1.
We gave Tony his credit. Sal & Alison I have asked you several times to produce and give me an authorization number that you would have received if in fact the credit was given. You still have not provided it.


Excuse#2.
Duplicate emails. This one is funny. This was pertaining to one particular day 04/24/03 at 6.59 pm one single email for this day only. I sent you emails on 04/19/03 4.40 pm----04/20/03 1.43 pm---04/21/03 10.20 am -----04/22/03 10.55 am----04/24/03 12.38 pm-----04/24/03 6.19 pm. Now all of theses emails went unanswered. But you say you thought they were duplicate? Different times, different date, different wording.



Excuse #3.
We contacted Tony to verify his information via telephone as we DO NOT keep records here of credit card numbers and I would not expect someone to list their credit card information via email.
Now this simply is not true. You took out my deposit via my email information. We had not even talked by phone at this point.

Example #1 for excuse #3.
My email.
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:53 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Message about : '01 MALE HET YELLOW GHOST BALL PYTHON


Hi Alison,
My information is as follows, Anthony Pappalardo address removed. Visa debit card account number has been removed expiration date is removed. You can take the $100.00 deposit today. Thanks and have a great day!

Thank you,
Tony.


Example #2 for excuse #3.
Upstate Exotics reply.
Subj: RE: Message about : '01 MALE HET YELLOW GHOST BALL PYTHON
Date: 3/28/2003 1:57:48 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent from the Internet (Details)




Ok, I ran it through with no problem. I will put him as sold. If you have any questions, please let me know.


Thanks!!



Example #3 for Excuse #3.
Subj: RE: Payment.
Date: 4/1/2003 12:19:49 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent from the Internet (Details)




Hi
Do you want me to take out the $80.00 from your credit card # you gave to me before?


Thanks!!!




Excuse #4.
I have stated this purchase has nothing to do with Corey Estill it is solely between Sal & Alison Tornambene. I gave you from 04/06/03 to 04/19/03 to resolve the paper work issue. I asked for a refund on 04/19/03. From 04/19/03 to 04/30/03 no refund to this point had been issued to me. It's amazing how you can blatantly lie about my refund. I have asked you several time produce date time and authorization number you should have at hand if my refund was given. And if it had been I could not have called on 04/30/03 to dispute charges. For my protection Visa canceled my card.




Excuse #5.
I love that one. Again its my responsibility to call you. Now you also claim not have my phone number when you openly stated that you called me. I will not talk to you by phone because you lie. I want every bit of communication between us to be recorded. The fact that you called me is also a lie. The first time we talked by phone is when I was tired of you avoiding me.



Sal & Alison Tornambene,
I hope that you please do the right thing and contact me pertaining to the refund that I am entitled to. I would like to know what your intentions are. If you intend on settling with Visa than please inform me through email confirmation. As always thanks for you time and have a good day.

Thank you,
Tony.

 

[thomas davis]

BULLCRACKERS!

well i was asked to read this by a nameless party so i read it all geez!,,,what a mess upstate has got themselves into, they're incompatance,and just plain lack of $&!T about customers,will end they're business its funny the web has brought herping a long way,but even on the WWW we are still a very small number of people and everyone pretty much know's everybody else,or will soon if they surf theWWW for long,,its quite humorous to see people just trying to make a buck in the herp biz w/no regard to customers,animals,ethics,,,also another reason why this board kix@$$,to warn and have public record of schmucks like this..hey upstate exoticks here this soundSSSSWWWWWWOOOOOSSSSSHHH ,,, thats the sound of your WWW reptile business going byebye,,, C'Ya,,,thomas davis T&S reptile farm

 

[Living Art Reptiles]

Upstate Exotics.

This is Upstate Exotics second reply. Now if you have been following all information givin thus far this really needs no analizing for its dishonesty.



Reply #2.
Jenn...
We did email him and speak on the phone with an option to wait for paperwork or to receive a refund. At first he said he would wait on paperwork...so just to clarify this wasn't an instant "I want a refund".

Then he emailed us wanting a refund.

We have already refunded his money.





On 04/08/03 was the first time we even talked by phone and this was to you avoiding my email.
MY EMAIL.
Subj: Paper wpork for the 100% het Yellow Ghost male.
Date: 4/9/2003 8:20:30 AM Eastern Standard Time
From: T BONE 9157
To: [email protected]



HI Alison,
how are you. I called yesterday and talked to Sal. I wanted to know on how were doing with getting Corey to authenticate the genetics of this snake? Please contact me. As always thanks for your time and have a great day.


Thank you,
Tony.




(Instand refund )! There is a little humor in this one because I guess you consider 04/19/03 to 04/30/03 an instant refund. And again if you credited my account when your claiming you did, show me the authorization number and date. According to your response. ( Then he emailed he wanted a refund). ( We had already refunded the money). Now again the facts, I emailed you about my refund on 04/19/03. I called the credit card company on 04/30/03 and disputed charges by your company. Where's my credit authorization number? Which you have yet to produce.

Sal & Alison Tonambene,
please email me with information pertaining to my refund. If you are going to settle this claim with Visa, please email me with this fact. Thank you and have a nice day.

Thank you,
Tony.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Time to change strategy!

Tony,

..."One can not repeat the same thing over and over again and expect different results"...Those were words of one of the greatest minds of the twentieth century.

At this point it is obvious that the message..."Hi Sal & Alison,
how are you?...etc., etc. is not having an effect. Have you consider a similar approach but with kingsnake.com? After all that seems to be where Upstate Exotics is doing most of their business.

 

[Living Art Reptiles]

Upstate Exotics.

Hi Alvaro,
please refer to page one of this complaint. Yes I have been in contact with King Snake. They also advise not to post with them due to Legal ramifications. On a public non profit forum your are legally protected. I have contacted all necessary authorities. Email me in private and I will explain. My approach with Hi Sal and Alison how are is my natural way of dealing with people. This forum is the only way I can expose them. If they are going to publicly lie about what has happened and dissect my complaint to try desperately to create an excuse. Then I will publicly dissect that very excuse for what it is lies. Well, Alvaro thanks for your input and time have a good day.

Thank you,
Tony.



Page one.
Upstate Exotics.
Hi,
if anyone has had a similar situation and has purchased from this company through King Snake .com I urge you to come forth with your information. Contact this email address [email protected] . Thanks for your time.

Anthony Pappalardo.

 

[gila7150]

Tony,
I appreciate your patience in dealing with these crooks but you are wasting your time. They've shown over and over that they are incapable of doing the right thing.
My advice would be to get your refund through Visa and let Visa deal with Upstate Exotics. Thanks for demonstrating yet another reason not to do business with Upstate Exotics.
Chris Raden

 

[E2MacPets]

Re: BULLCRACKERS!

well i was asked to read this by a nameless party so i read it all geez!,,,what a mess upstate has got themselves into, they're incompatance,and just plain lack of $&!T about customers,will end they're business its funny the web has brought herping a long way,but even on the WWW we are still a very small number of people and everyone pretty much know's everybody else,or will soon if they surf theWWW for long,,its quite humorous to see people just trying to make a buck in the herp biz w/no regard to customers,animals,ethics,,,also another reason why this board kix@$$,to warn and have public record of schmucks like this..hey upstate exoticks here this soundSSSSWWWWWWOOOOOSSSSSHHH ,,, thats the sound of your WWW reptile business going byebye,,, C'Ya,,,thomas davis T&S reptile farm

I was asked to read this thread by another party as well. I assume it's the same person and that is Tony himself.

Now as much as I hate to put any doubt into Upstate Exotics being scum, is it possible that we are being lied to by Tony?

He seems to want to come across as nearly holy, but at the same time I believe he is searching out anyone who disliked Upstate Exotics on previous threads to view this thread and obviously take his side.

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Maybe it is that he is trying to get everyone to truly see what UPSTATE EXOTICS really are like. I talked to Tony for a while before he posted on here about this. He did not know if he should post the situation but did after I told him that this was the best place for the truth to come out on this company. Upstate say they have issued the refund and Tony says they have not. Well that there proves that the story is true and if they honestly did issue a refund they would be able to give him the transaction number assopciated with the refund. And that line of BS that they don't save customer's information well I bet the IRS would like to know that. I guess they don't keep any paperwork at all in regards to their buisness. It is obvious that UPSTATE has now continually shown what kind of buisness they truly are.(NOT A GOOD ONE) and they need to do the right thing for Tony.

 

[E2MacPets]

Rob, I have no doubt that Upstate is absolute SCUM believe me, but thank you for vouching for Tony. It was the only piece that I felt was missing here- we all take for granted that Tony is telling the truth because we know what Upstate Exotics is like.

Tony I do hope you see justice here. Please continue to keep us up to date on any progress you make.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Here's a what if

Tony,

I'm really curious about Upstate Exotics lack of reply. Granted they have had some problems in the recent past but completely ignoring you is outrageous and borderline with business suicide.

Here is just a what if. Tony, is it possible that the problem really relies with the credit card company? Is it possible that they don't have (maybe lost it) your credit authorization number? Bare with me that I'm trying to find an rational explanation for this outrageous beehavior.

Again even taking into consideration their past history their current standing on this issue makes no sense at all.

Regards.

 

[bluerosy]

Okay, this was a very enlightening thread!

I was just trying to help a girl who posted on kS about her ailing rosy. Two days ago she writes it had died. So I suggest she write the people who sold it (rather traded it for a burmese) and it turns out to be Upstate Exotics. She writes them and they tell her no refund. So I decide to get involved. i wrote them as a third party who can verify the boa was sick and she had posted on KS for advise. I helped her with it. It is alo dated that she did have a problem and Upstate can verify this but the refuse to look at the facts. I am going to post there final letter to me.

Keep in mind I am not a friend of this person but notice how they keep insisting that I am. Also they twisted my email to thm a bit to serve there puposes. The email apears justified but I promise it is not.
Here it is:

I appreciate your concern, but at the same point the animal was eating
here. We shipped to her on March 31 and had not heard anything until
yesterday when the snake apparently died. I'm glad you're her friend
and she looked to you for advice, but you have to understand from a
business view, we have no proof the animal is dead, and when we asked
for pictures she could not provide them to us. And also it has been
over a month and we have heard nothing from her. Anyone will tell you
that if you are having problems with an animal you purchased, you
contact the business you bought it from. Our policies are very
straightforward and many other businesses in this industry carry the
same terms.

It was not obvious that she was concerned the rosy would not eat, as up
until yesterday I had heard nothing about it. That's great she may use
the Kingsnake forums, but I do not even look at them. It's like going
to any other pet store and buying a dog. You keep it for over a month
and even though you say it hasn't eaten for you, have it die, then
expect a refund. I do not know how she kept this animal, I do not know
what different ways she tried with feeding it, I did not know there even
was a problem. I'm sorry but at this point, as I explained to her, I
cannot refund her.

Thanks!!!

Upstate Exotics
Sal & Alison Tornambene



After I received this I did a little research and found this thread. To bad it is to late for this newbie whom I am trying to help.
Not a great way to be introduced to the herp hobby!
If there is someone she can contact for a complaint then please post it here !
Bluerosy

 

[HerpVenue]

A couple things.

Bluerosy, a full name is required for all posts on the BOI

Also, Upstate has a point.
1. It has been a month before they were contacted.
2. no proof of dead snake.
a no dead snake shipped back
b no pictures of the dead snake.

So they might very well be at fault.
But in this case.....it might be a little too late.

 

[GinoInDaBronx]

sal and alison= LOWLIVES

sal and alison tornambene have now stooped to ripping
off little girls!!!! We are all sooooooooooooooooooo
impressed...

They gave her a non-eating rosy for her burm. I hope
they are proud of themselves.

I proclaim them the new jesse james underhill!

 

[bluerosy]

Ritchie Luna
Well first my full name is Rainer Weishaupl and the girl DID post on KS with the concerns that her rosy was not eating. There response was kinda like not resonding to mt email...if ya know what I mean!

This is what my email to Upstate explained. That the post dates on Kingsnake.com forums cannot be fabricated. It was something she was concerned about and people like myself told her to not worry . Rosy Boas sometimes and especially as babies do not start feeding right away. It would be a false alarm to tell her to contact the seller because this is very common for rosys. I am a breeder of rosys and have been for over 25yrs. My collection on rosys have been in the 300 range for adults and a lot of times the baby rosys are hard to get going . But they will eventually eat and they do not starve to death. The same holds true with the rubber boas. It is not normally a percurser to rosys that they are ill when they go off feed. This snake that died was obviously ill otherwise it would not have died.

If Upstates arguement stands then how can they explain the early posts from her? IMHO this was far better than contacting them directly and that instead she wanted to get advise from experts before she bothered them. It was only at MY request that she contact them after the snake died. This is better proff than calling them on the phone and it is public as well as dated. Can't get better proof than that!

Seems like a bit to elaborite a skeem to rip off Upstate Exotics, LOL.

Bottom line is anyone reading those threads can see she is not pulling anything. But Upstate does not want to recognize that she posted before she called them with the dead snake.

However seems to me she would have screwed either way!

 

[bluerosy]

How does one get the edit function to work on here anyway? I wanted to do some spelling corrections on the above post and it won't let me!
Rainer

 

[The BoidSmith]

Here is Upstate Exotics guarantee:

We guarantee all animals healthy and eating. If you believe there is a problem with an animal you MUST report it to us within 24-hours via telephone. In some instances a vet report will be required with a diagnosis of the sickness for a full refund of animals, less shipping costs. We will pay for shipping on sick animals to be returned to us.

If you don't feel comfortable with their terms do not buy from them, period. You have to call (not e-mail, write, fax, etc.) within 24 hours to report a problem.

Maybe I'm interpreting something wrong but the way I read their terms if the buyer's vet determines the snake is sick the buyer has to pay for return shipment (quote:..."for a full refund of animals, less shipping costs"...), while in the next sentence they state: quote: ..."We will pay for shipping on sick animals to be returned to us".... Just a coment on the side.

Going back to Tony's problem I agree with him though, I would have something in writing too. So yes, call within 24-h, but also send an e-mail within that time-frame period.

As for the feeding issue on the rosy boa.

No 24-h guarantees are intended to cover feeding problems. No buyer should expect his snake to eat off the plane. In fact, it is advisable not to feed the snake until she is settled into the new surroundings. That will usually take more than 24-h. A 24 or 48-h guarantees are intended to cover other, more evident health issues (such as URI, external parasites, etc.) as well as deffects such as scars, recent injuries, etc.

This is particularly true for some species. The trick to this is that by the time the animal is ready to be offered food, the housing and/or management conditions have changed, and the seller (either Upstate Exotics or any other dealer for that matter) can no longer guarantee the animal is kept under ideal environmental conditions for the species to show a feeding response.

When Upstate Exotics state: ..."We guarantee all animals healthy and eating"... What I read is: they are healthy and they are eating for us. This is simple to verify by asking when was it fed for the last time, the buyer should expect the animal to pass feces at his place sometime upon arrival.

Regards.

 

[Wilomn]

Much as I hate to back up someone like upstate, they do have a guraentee plainly written that was not followed.

No matter what the problem or the time frame buyers must use all means to contact sellers, email, fax, phone, whatever they can to show that the problem is legitamate and that they are trying to more than run in circles waving their hands in the air. I don't think this girl was doing that, if anything it seems she was too nice and didn't want to other upstate.

If there is a guarentee offered and you buy an animal from the person offering that guarentee you are bound by it reguardless of the terms.

It sucks, but she didn't follow their instructions. I do think their guarentee is a bad one as 24 hours is in no way long enough to get an animal to feed. But it does let them off the hook if it doesn't. That should surprise no one who has done business with or read about upstate here.

Bluerosy, hopefully you can help this girl out with a nice healthy boa, either one of yours or by pointing her in the direction of someone who has quality snakes.

Wes Pollock