Info US GLOBAL EXOTICS SPCA RAID

[Matt K]

@ JG1153-

You are definately a very verbose individual to say the least, huh? So I will try not to be.
It is obvious (at least to me) that you have never had to care for any volume of livestock so of course you may not understand how and what levels of care are doled out and to what extent any livestock that arrives in poor condition is triaged. Do you have even a clue how many people work in the average zoo? Not hundreds, and not even dozens many times.... the power of rationalization you exhibit in your post is astounding, and I can only say that with further education you could be one heck of a lawyer one day.

You can make alot of assumptions in your attempts to simplify and rationalize the side of the "Devil's Advocate", but the fact remains that US Global (guilty in part or in whole) does very much have the appearance to have been set up and this bothers most of us in the hobby end. Arlington, (maybe you have never been there) is definately no "small community" and is in the middle of DFW proper- the judge could be from anywhere- DFW is a large amalgomation of districts representing some 6 million people.... so if you are posting in this thread, maybe you have reptiles or other exotics, and maybe your care for the hobbies' existance, so why so abjectively pro-PETA? I believe that "industry standards" are currently fine and within reason from my years of personal experience. It can be said that some aspects are subjective and maybe those should be defined a little better, but typically those are really an obligation of the dealer in order to maintain his/her business. And don't kid yourself into thinking US Global was "this place had to be generating tons of revenue not just for the town but for the state" .... ha ha ha !!! Now THAT made me "LOL"...

¿ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʍou ǝʌıʇɔǝdsɹǝd ɟo ɹǝʇʇɐɯ ɐ ןןɐ ʎןןɐǝɹ s,ʇı˙˙˙

Take a deep breath, and drop the elementary math- it makes you look like you are insecure with your own statements....

Point/counter point, ready.....go!

 

[JG1153]

@ JG1153-

You are definately a very verbose individual to say the least, huh? So I will try not to be.
It is obvious (at least to me) that you have never had to care for any volume of livestock so of course you may not understand how and what levels of care are doled out and to what extent any livestock that arrives in poor condition is triaged. Do you have even a clue how many people work in the average zoo? Not hundreds, and not even dozens many times.... the power of rationalization you exhibit in your post is astounding, and I can only say that with further education you could be one heck of a lawyer one day.

You can make alot of assumptions in your attempts to simplify and rationalize the side of the "Devil's Advocate", but the fact remains that US Global (guilty in part or in whole) does very much have the appearance to have been set up and this bothers most of us in the hobby end. Arlington, (maybe you have never been there) is definately no "small community" and is in the middle of DFW proper- the judge could be from anywhere- DFW is a large amalgomation of districts representing some 6 million people.... so if you are posting in this thread, maybe you have reptiles or other exotics, and maybe your care for the hobbies' existance, so why so abjectively pro-PETA? I believe that "industry standards" are currently fine and within reason from my years of personal experience. It can be said that some aspects are subjective and maybe those should be defined a little better, but typically those are really an obligation of the dealer in order to maintain his/her business. And don't kid yourself into thinking US Global was "this place had to be generating tons of revenue not just for the town but for the state" .... ha ha ha !!! Now THAT made me "LOL"...

¿ʇı ʇ,usı 'ʍou ǝʌıʇɔǝdsɹǝd ɟo ɹǝʇʇɐɯ ɐ ןןɐ ʎןןɐǝɹ s,ʇı˙˙˙

Take a deep breath, and drop the elementary math- it makes you look like you are insecure with your own statements....

Point/counter point, ready.....go!

So I’m supposed to be ardently and blindly against PETA even if they’re right and for U.S. Global even if they aren’t simply because they’re part of the industry and the latter isn’t? I don’t think so! How about supporting the side who’s right depending on what the particular situation is?

I’m not on PETA’s side, U.S. Global’s, your’s , or the Hobby’s (eventhough I really enjoy it), I’m on the animal’s side and as long as they’re doing alright I don’t care whether they’re out in the wild, in a private collection or zoo, on their way to the slaughter house to feed me later, of at a research facility. I don’t support PETA but if they have a valid point (animal abuse is wrong) I’m level headed enough to say “well your right on that one”.

I don’t know why you chose to compare apples to oranges since a zoological operation is not the same as a commercial and especially a wholesale operation but since you chose to go down that road I’ll indulge you. I do have quite a bit of large scale animal care experience and zoological one too. While at the San Antonio Zoo the staff for the herpetology department consisted of 4 full time keepers and four interns and volunteers and if I were to tell you that the number of herps housed there was 5k I would certainly feel like a liar since it’s probably closer to half that. Either way compare 8 people caring for 5000 animals to 8 people caring for 27,000 by Jansen’s own account and consequently none of which he took the time to dismiss as being just crickets, which surely would have helped out his cause, even though he took the time to write up a very verbose statement asking us to pay for his legal defence.

So apparently it’s you who has no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to animal care, the number of appropriate people required for their upkeep or the number of people at zoo’s whose sole purpose it is to provide appropriate care.

Wait, where does triage come in to play here? Triage stems from things out of your control which force you to make tough decisions. How is the number of animals under one’s care not under one’s control? Ultimately if you can’t properly handle having that many animals then you shouldn’t have that many and then triage isn’t an issue. The only tough decision being made by wholesalers is where to cram a few more animals to make that extra buck.

You say the standard in the Industry is fine but if you’ve kept up with this thread then you’re aware that in this thread and others where the issue of wholesalers and neglect comes up there’s always several people with first hand experience that step up and clearly state that the industry standard at least when it comes to wholesaler’s tends to lean towards neglect. So you and your good pal neglect can continue with your chumminess for as long as you like just don’t be surprised if the rest of us don’t join in.

You say my verboseness and math shows my insecurity and perhaps my ignorance when it comes to my statements. I say, it lends credence and compelling evidence to my statements and your inability to put forth a proper persuasive statement instead of rants and accusations based on conspiracy theories and paranoia shows your’s but as you said and I can agree with you on this point, It’s all a matter of perception.Photos can be staged, videos edited, and people’s agenda’s pushed onto others behind closed doors but 1+1 will always equal 2 and no one can argue with that although you’re welcomed to give it your best shot Matt

By the way I have about as much interest in being a lawyer as I do being a sheep blindly following the herd to slaughter.

 

[kmarsh]

So if we follow your inference then ALL wholesalers are abusers is that what you would have us belive?
"You say the standard in the Industry is fine but if you’ve kept up with this thread then you’re aware that in this thread and others where the issue of wholesalers and neglect comes up there’s always several people with first hand experience that step up and clearly state that the industry standard at least when it comes to wholesaler’s tends to lean towards neglect. So you and your good pal neglect can continue with your chumminess for as long as you like just don’t be surprised if the rest of us don’t join in."

I don't think that all wholesalers are abusers either. You are intitled to your opinion (no matter how ranting and long winded it is) but so are the rest of us.

 

[Matt K]

@ kmarsh-

Thanks man, but I was PM'd by others that he pretty much made my point.

@ everyone else- just to state the obvious: Of course it's not possible to give every animal from collection point to consumer the level of care the same might get if it were on display in a zoo with 4 staff and 4 interns. I'm also not saying USG was completely innocent, but Jasen would not have let a live GTP go into a dumpster either if it could have been sold to someone somewhere for any amount of money. If a hedgehog arrives without a foot he can't reattach a spare one- but like the rest of us he can only choose another supplier. If collectors ship him animals that are in good health and a few that are not, there is only so much he can do like every other wholesaler in the US (without opening a vet clinic).

I am on the side of The Hobby, which is a whole other long discussion. If all commerce globally were held to the standards of Mr. Revolutions previous posts, nobody would be able to buy anything and we would all live in poverty.

IF you did not like what US Global did/was doing/etc. then you should be breeding the animals yourself and/or buying only captive bred. I own cb animals and have successfully bred each one.

 

[Python Dreams]

MattK,
You should see if you can get Micheal Vick to sponsor your breeding programs? Seriously! Who cares what others do as long as your breeding your captive bred babies! Maybe you and Anson Wong can go into biz together?
IMO, you must be friends with the owner of US Global. You seem to be more on the side of the fact that they can do whatever they want! You make some ridiculous point about how the other poster is just using math to make his judgement and has no experience with any sort of real animal care... Yet he has worked at a zoo... Have you? Do you understand math?
I always thought that it was understood that wholesalers tend to have less than quality animals, and less than quality care goes into the animals. Do the math with the numbers and employees... Well, wait since that seems to be hard for your brain to get around. Ask a wholesaler how many animals die in a shipment they recieve? Ask a wholesaler how many animals die each week in there facility? Ask a wholesaler what care a gecko will recieve if he comes in starving, dehydrated, with a broken leg and infected cut? Who cares right? As long as you can get your next leaf-tail for $20!
I say that we as a hobby should stick together for the right to treat animals cruelly! Thats what our hobby has come to?

 

[ozz465]

MattK,
You should see if you can get Micheal Vick to sponsor your breeding programs? Seriously! Who cares what others do as long as your breeding your captive bred babies! Maybe you and Anson Wong can go into biz together?
IMO, you must be friends with the owner of US Global. You seem to be more on the side of the fact that they can do whatever they want! You make some ridiculous point about how the other poster is just using math to make his judgement and has no experience with any sort of real animal care... Yet he has worked at a zoo... Have you? Do you understand math?
I always thought that it was understood that wholesalers tend to have less than quality animals, and less than quality care goes into the animals. Do the math with the numbers and employees... Well, wait since that seems to be hard for your brain to get around. Ask a wholesaler how many animals die in a shipment they recieve? Ask a wholesaler how many animals die each week in there facility? Ask a wholesaler what care a gecko will recieve if he comes in starving, dehydrated, with a broken leg and infected cut? Who cares right? As long as you can get your next leaf-tail for $20!
I say that we as a hobby should stick together for the right to treat animals cruelly! Thats what our hobby has come to?

I agree 100% i have been in this hobby since i was 9 years old and i do love the fact that we get these animals but that doesn't excuse the sub par care they get during some Wholesalers deals (cant say all as U cant just lump them all together)i relise they cant get xtra large caging and such but really keeping frogs in soda bottles and the rest is horrible.

 

[spawn]

Tom, you do understand that middle men/retailers are the ones who typically treat/rehab the animals before selling them? I see wholesalers as merely a window to get an animal as soon as possible out of the wild, because the longer it sits in someone's facility, the higher the chances it picks up mites/ticks/diseases. I'd rather grab the animal and treat it myself as fast as I can than I would let it sit there an extra day it doesn't have to, without food or water. Your post reeks of someone who doesn't appreciate the bottom end of the industry - those who bring in new blood and wild caught animals that allow captive breeding to take place in the first place.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Ok lets take Your math and explain to me where peta or whom ever has these 20,000 animals has got the man power, the facilities, the feed, the cages, heating, lights, care info, all on a moments notice to go in seize these animals, take them to where ever this imaginary place is that has all of the above. Prove to me that pets is doing all they can to take care of each and every one of these animals and give them everything imaginable that they need. Better yet go to the petakillsanimals.com site and explain to me how in all the years they have been taking in money that they had to kill so many animals versus the amount they saved. Sorry but peta does not get my vote, my sympathy or the sweat off my ---

PETA is not on trial here (they should be, and their time is coming, but not yet). Whether PETA has the wherewithal to handle the volume of animals or not, is NOT the point here.

The point is, that Global, for whatever reason (abuse, neglect etc) has drawn the wrong attention. This wrong attention (keep up) has resulted in actions that may have a severe impact on our community as a whole.

Global, with the magnitude of its operations, did not see fit to add sufficent employees to take care of those animals, so for whatever reason, bodies were left to rot, animals were left to die, and sick animals were denied Vet care... per the evidence.

Now, myself, I don't CARE what Globals excuses are. Really. And obviously, neither did the Judge.

I agree with the math that was shown, and I'll go farther and say that some days, just being ONE person taking care of the reptiles that I currently have, I wouldn't want PETA to pay a visit to me, and I don't have 1/8th the number of animals that Global has

The bottom line, IMO, is if Global had been covering their bases, they would not have gotten caught with their pants down and PETA would not have had to seize these animals that they were not prepared to take care of.

*couldn't stay away...

 

[deborahbroadus]

Tom, you do understand that middle men/retailers are the ones who typically treat/rehab the animals before selling them? I see wholesalers as merely a window to get an animal as soon as possible out of the wild, because the longer it sits in someone's facility, the higher the chances it picks up mites/ticks/diseases. I'd rather grab the animal and treat it myself as fast as I can than I would let it sit there an extra day it doesn't have to, without food or water. Your post reeks of someone who doesn't appreciate the bottom end of the industry - those who bring in new blood and wild caught animals that allow captive breeding to take place in the first place.

Your detector must have been malfunctioning when you posted this.

 

[Python Dreams]

To clarify, I meant importers, not wholesalers...

Spawn,
So are you saying that the importation of wc reptiles is so cruel that you would rather buy them up as quick as possible to treat them? That when with the exporters/importers that they might be left without food and water? Do I appreciate the importation of reptiles when you yourself say that you are more or less rescuing them? No. I am surprised you can say that in one breath and then negatively imply that someone does not appreciate it! Do I appreciate importing of thousands of Ball Pythons (what I breed) making cb babies worthless? No.
Is the importation of reptiles needed to help gain captive bred specimens not available? I would say yes. Is importation needed so we have an avenue for disposable cheap pets? In a perfect world, I would say no.
My understanding is that quite a few of some of our favorite reptiles would not be readily available in captivity if it wasnt for originally being smuggled in. Yet, as far as I can see smugglers get looked at with extreme negative attitudes, bordering on hate. Do you appreciate what they have done for our hobby also?

 

[spawn]

Don't overgeneralize. 603 dead animals from a stock of 26,000+. I don't consider that neglect. Maybe I'm missing something here, or I skipped over the part of the discussion where pictures/testimonials were provided first-hand of the care going on in the facility that wasn't spoon-fed to us by the media. If so, please point it out/reference it so I feel good about being stupid today.

 

[JG1153]

So if we follow your inference then ALL wholesalers are abusers is that what you would have us belive?
"You say the standard in the Industry is fine but if you’ve kept up with this thread then you’re aware that in this thread and others where the issue of wholesalers and neglect comes up there’s always several people with first hand experience that step up and clearly state that the industry standard at least when it comes to wholesaler’s tends to lean towards neglect. So you and your good pal neglect can continue with your chumminess for as long as you like just don’t be surprised if the rest of us don’t join in."

I don't think that all wholesalers are abusers either. You are intitled to your opinion (no matter how ranting and long winded it is) but so are the rest of us.

I’m sorry, but I don’t see where exactly I stated that all wholesalers aren’t taking care of their stock? All I stated was that according to the accounts of those who deal with wholesalers neglect is at least common if not widespread. That doesn’t mean it includes all wholesalers but it also doesn’t mean the opposite. Basically this is one of those “if the shoe fits” kind of deals.

@ kmarsh-

Thanks man, but I was PM'd by others that he pretty much made my point.

@ everyone else- just to state the obvious: Of course it's not possible to give every animal from collection point to consumer the level of care the same might get if it were on display in a zoo with 4 staff and 4 interns. I'm also not saying USG was completely innocent, but Jasen would not have let a live GTP go into a dumpster either if it could have been sold to someone somewhere for any amount of money. If a hedgehog arrives without a foot he can't reattach a spare one- but like the rest of us he can only choose another supplier. If collectors ship him animals that are in good health and a few that are not, there is only so much he can do like every other wholesaler in the US (without opening a vet clinic).

I am on the side of The Hobby, which is a whole other long discussion. If all commerce globally were held to the standards of Mr. Revolutions previous posts, nobody would be able to buy anything and we would all live in poverty.

IF you did not like what US Global did/was doing/etc. then you should be breeding the animals yourself and/or buying only captive bred. I own cb animals and have successfully bred each one.

So somehow you comparing apples to oranges to make a point and then me pointing out the fallacy in your logic somehow proves your original point? Well that’s rich, LOL! Obviously you didn’t read the sentence in my last post stating “I don’t know why you chose to compare apples to oranges since a zoological operation is not the same as a commercial and especially a wholesale operation but since you chose to go down that road I’ll indulge you.”

You wanted to go down that road and now you want to complain that it turned out to be a dead end for you.Sorry but it doesn't work that way. So now basic animal care and welfare are revolutionary thoughts? Again real rich, LOL.

Ultimately your point was to try to discredit my view so you’ve tried downplaying the numbers. That really didn’t go so well since you apparently couldn’t grasp the simplicity of elementary school math. Then you tried to discredit my view by using fallacious logic and making unfounded accusations like that I’m pro-PETA and most importantly that I have no reasonable animal care experience. That ended up with your foot in your mouth and claiming victory even though you clearly have no idea what what you’re talking about.

So what’s next Matt? Childish name calling? Go ahead...

 

[JG1153]

Were all 27,000 animals abused? My guess would have to be NO, and I’m willing to give that to anyone (quite frankly I'm surprised no one's come up to try to say that the judge is in cahoots with PETA or some other retarded related conspiracy theory) but obviously the neglect must have been widespread and serious enough to prompt the judge to say “you know what? I’m not giving you back any of those animals. Not even the healthy looking ones”

I’m done arguing/debating the issue. Ultimately a court has already passed a decision that the animals were being abused and the wholesale industry’s standards are insufficient and unless a higher court overturns the decision upon appeal that is where the issue stands and there’s really no point in continuing to argue about it. Most importantly this decision sets precedent upon which other decisions will be based. So for those of you to whom making a buck is at the top of the list and the animal’s welfare at the bottom this is definitely a very worrying time.

 

[JG1153]

I am on the side of The Hobby,

Exactly so to hll with the animals well being, and anyways you're on the side of the hobby because you're making money off of it. So technically you're on the side of the good ol American greenback and that pretty much explains why you're so adamant about defending U.S. Global.

 

[lanceheads]

So I’m supposed to be ardently and blindly against PETA even if they’re right and for U.S. Global even if they aren’t simply because they’re part of the industry and the latter isn’t? I don’t think so! How about supporting the side who’s right depending on what the particular situation is?

I’m not on PETA’s side, U.S. Global’s, your’s , or the Hobby’s (eventhough I really enjoy it), I’m on the animal’s side and as long as they’re doing alright I don’t care whether they’re out in the wild, in a private collection or zoo, on their way to the slaughter house to feed me later, of at a research facility. I don’t support PETA but if they have a valid point (animal abuse is wrong) I’m level headed enough to say “well your right on that one”.

I don’t know why you chose to compare apples to oranges since a zoological operation is not the same as a commercial and especially a wholesale operation but since you chose to go down that road I’ll indulge you. I do have quite a bit of large scale animal care experience and zoological one too. While at the San Antonio Zoo the staff for the herpetology department consisted of 4 full time keepers and four interns and volunteers and if I were to tell you that the number of herps housed there was 5k I would certainly feel like a liar since it’s probably closer to half that. Either way compare 8 people caring for 5000 animals to 8 people caring for 27,000 by Jansen’s own account and consequently none of which he took the time to dismiss as being just crickets, which surely would have helped out his cause, even though he took the time to write up a very verbose statement asking us to pay for his legal defence.

So apparently it’s you who has no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to animal care, the number of appropriate people required for their upkeep or the number of people at zoo’s whose sole purpose it is to provide appropriate care.

Wait, where does triage come in to play here? Triage stems from things out of your control which force you to make tough decisions. How is the number of animals under one’s care not under one’s control? Ultimately if you can’t properly handle having that many animals then you shouldn’t have that many and then triage isn’t an issue. The only tough decision being made by wholesalers is where to cram a few more animals to make that extra buck.

You say the standard in the Industry is fine but if you’ve kept up with this thread then you’re aware that in this thread and others where the issue of wholesalers and neglect comes up there’s always several people with first hand experience that step up and clearly state that the industry standard at least when it comes to wholesaler’s tends to lean towards neglect. So you and your good pal neglect can continue with your chumminess for as long as you like just don’t be surprised if the rest of us don’t join in.

You say my verboseness and math shows my insecurity and perhaps my ignorance when it comes to my statements. I say, it lends credence and compelling evidence to my statements and your inability to put forth a proper persuasive statement instead of rants and accusations based on conspiracy theories and paranoia shows your’s but as you said and I can agree with you on this point, It’s all a matter of perception.Photos can be staged, videos edited, and people’s agenda’s pushed onto others behind closed doors but 1+1 will always equal 2 and no one can argue with that although you’re welcomed to give it your best shot Matt

By the way I have about as much interest in being a lawyer as I do being a sheep blindly following the herd to slaughter.

So you worked for Alan there? Not counting invertebrates, I bet the number of herps there is closer to 300.

Randal Berry

 

[SamanthaJane13]

So now basic animal care and welfare are revolutionary thoughts? Again real rich, LOL.

I totally agree!!!

Humane treatment for animals cuts across time, culture and religion.

It's not just you and me fighting for this, Juan.

This battle has been around as long a Man.

If you're not part of the solution, MAYBE you're part of the problem...


“What is man without the beasts? If all the beasts were gone, man would die from a great loneliness of spirit, for whatever happens to the beasts soon happens to the man. All things are connected.”
--Chief Seattle

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
--Ghandi

"I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being."
--Abraham Lincoln

"For fidelity, devotion, love, many a two-legged animal (man) is below the dog and the horse. Happy would it be for thousands of people if they could stand at last before the Judgment Seat and say "I have loved as truly and I have lived as decently as my dog." And yet we call them "only animals"!"
--Henry Ward Beecher (abolitionist)

"I despise and abhor the pleas on behalf of that infamous practice, vivisection... I would rather submit to the worst of deaths, so far as pain goes, than have a single dog or cat tortured to death on the pretense of sparing me a twinge or two."
--Robert Browning (poet)

"Imagine that you are creating a fabric of human destiny with the object of making men happy in the end, giving them peace and rest at last, but that it was essential and inevitable to torture to death only one tiny creature, and to found that edifice on its unavenged tears. Would you consent to be the architect on those conditions? Tell me, and tell the truth."
--Fyodor Dostoyevsky (novelist)

"Love animals: God has given them the rudiments of thought and joy untroubled. Do not trouble their joy, don't harass them, don't deprive them of their happiness, don't work against God's intent. Man, do not pride yourself on superiority to animals; they are without sin, and you, with your greatness, defile the earth by your appearance on it, and leave the traces of your foulness after you--alas, it is true of almost every one of us!"
--Fyodor Dostoyevsky (novelist)

"Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages."
--Thomas Edison (inventor)

"Our task must be to free ourselves...by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty."
--Albert Einstein (physicist, Nobel 1921)

"Not to hurt our humble brethren (the animals) is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission--to be of service to them whenever they require it... If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men."
--Saint Francis of Assisi (mystic and preacher)

"There is not an animal on the earth, nor a flying creature on two wings, but they are people like unto you."
--The Koran (sacred scripture of Islam)

"To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being. I should be unwilling to take the life of a lamb for the sake of the human body."
--Mahatma Gandhi

"If we cut up beasts simply because they cannot prevent us and because we are backing our own side in the struggle for existence, it is only logical to cut up imbeciles, criminals, enemies, or capitalist for the same reasons."
--C. S. Lewis (novelist and essayist)

"All cruelty springs from weakness."
--Seneca (4 BC - AD 65)

"We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form."
--William Ralph Inge (1860-1954)

"Love of animals is a universal impulse, a common ground on which all of us may meet. By loving and understanding animals, perhaps we humans shall come to understand each other."
--Dr Louis J.Camuti (1893-1981)

“Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to mankind.”
--Albert Schweitzer

“The measure of society is how its strongest members respect its weakest”
--John Paul II

"It is much easier to show compassion to animals. They are never wicked."
--Haile Selassie

"Compassion brings us to a stop, and for a moment we rise above ourselves."
--Mason Cooley

“Pets have more love and compassion in them than most humans.”
--Robert Wagner

"It should not be believed that all beings exist for the sake of the existence of man. On the contrary, all the other beings too have been intended for their own sakes and not for the sake of anything else."
--Maimonides (physician and philosopher)

"For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love."
--Pythagoras (philosopher and mathematician)

"Animals share with us the privilege of having a soul."
--Pythagoras (philosopher and mathematician)

"Compassion for animals is intimately connected with goodness of character; and it may be confidently asserted that he who is cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
--Arthur Schopenhauer (philosopher)

"The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different."
--Hippocrates (philosopher)

"I have always felt that the way we treat animals is a pretty good indicator of the compassion we are capable of for the human race."
--Ali McGraw (actress)

"In studying the traits and dispositions of the so-called lower animals, and contrasting them with man's, I find the result humiliating to me."
--Mark Twain (author)

"We can not do great things-- only small things with great love."
--Mother Theresa (author)

"Until he extends the circle of compassion to all livings things, Man will not himself find peace."
--Albert Schweitzer

"By ethical conduct toward all creatures, we enter into a spiritual relationship with the universe."
--A. Schweitzer

"When a human dies, there is a Bridge they must cross to enter into heaven. At the head of that bridge waits every animal that human encountered during their lifetime. The animals, based upon what they know of this person, decide which humans may cross the bridge and which will be turned away."
-–Native American Legend

 

[brd7666]

First of all you people need to stop arguing.

Secondly, I am not defending Global here and I would never take the side of Peta even if they were right. Unless you were actually there you don't really know the truth.

It is my opinion that most of you reading and responding to this thread don't know much about the import/export/wholesale business. That is really not your fault. The general public has no idea about the business either. Do not confuse this with the zoo industry because they are not even close to each other.

Import and export is not as simple as most of you more then likely believe, or whatever images you have in your mind are possibly not even close to reality.

Lets say XYZ Imports wants to bring in some animals from Whatever Country. XYZ is going to call 123 Exports in Whatever Country and place an order. Lets say they order 10 of Those, 15 of These, 20 of Them, and 25 of That. Well, 123 Exports might not have all of the animals requested in their inventory. If they do not have the animals then someone has to go out and catch the animals so they can fill the order. Some animals are easier to find then others. So 123 Exports tells people that thay need so many of a certain animal and they try to find them.

Lets say a hunter finds 2 of Those and 5 of Them on the first day. Maybe they got all 15 of These and 10 of That. All of the animals get very poor care until the rest of the order is filled. It could take several days, a week, or even a month or more to fill the order. Keep in mind that some of these countries are very poor and they have no animal laws like we do. The whole time the order is being filled, the animals that have already been caught are not being cared for very well and are in worse conditions that Global had. A lot of animals come in under weight and sick because they were neglected before they arrived in the U.S.

Here is part of the problem the importer/wholesaler has. Any business is in business to make money. Money is the bottom line no matter what product you are selling. In this case the product is animals.

For all of the math people out there, here is some real math when it comes to the reality of running a business, whether you like it or not.

IF an animal cost $10.00 and you sell it for $20.00, you made a profit. If that same $10.00 animal comes in and it is sick, what are you going to do? Some of you here would say, call a vet. What does a vet cost? Could be $50.00 for a vet. Now you have a $10.00 animal that you sell for $20.00 and you are going to spend $50.00 on a vet. I DON'T THINK SO. Why would an importer do that? From a business point of view that is stupid. An importer is going to try to do what he can to save that animal to some degree and the dollar is what dictates what is done to help that animal. Remember, a business is in business to make money. I personaly hate to see animals die. What people need to undersatand is that this is reality. I have never heard anyone say that the importation business is pretty. The animals that people here ship out are usually in good shape on departure, we have higher standards.

Several years back the importation of birds was shut down because of the death ratio. That could very well happen now to more species.

If you don't like importers then you should stop supporting them. So that means, stop buying from pet stores. Just about every pet store in the U.S. sells wild caught something or other. Stop buying from people at animal shows. A lot of animal dealers big and small sell wild caught animals or animals that came from an importer/wholesaler. Stop buying on the internet. A lot of people who sell on all kinds of web sites are selling animals that are wild caught or what they call farmed animals. I know that I have bought from importers and I have also sold to them as well. A lot of you don't even know where the animal you bought originated from.

So many people out there have no clue about the reality of the animal business. People need to understand that when you are buying from countries that live in poverty, they don't care about the animals, and that is where it all starts. This is why I say, unless you were actually at Global, you don't really know the truth. I am a firm believer that the animal rights people would do whatever they could to make animal dealers look bad, even if it means they do bad things to accomplish their goals.

Without the importation of animals, the cost of some species would go way up. This will hurt pet stores and it will hurt the consumer as well. The economy will suffer from it as well.

Some more of my 2 cents.

Brian Dierking

 

[JG1153]

So you worked for Alan there? Not counting invertebrates, I bet the number of herps there is closer to 300.

Randal Berry

Yeah I worked under Alan. Geez the last time I saw him and Eddie was maybe a year and a half ago at the San Antonio Reptile show. It had been so long since I’d seen them last Alan had a hard time recognizing me.lol.

Well at least back then (early 2004) there were quite a bit of animals being held behind the scenes. Quite a few offspring of the animals on display and quite a few, I guess you could say, “back up” animals in case something happened to the ones on display or just to rotate exhibits to keep the public from seeing the same thing every time. There were definitely a lot more animals behind the scenes of the reptile house and poison dart frogs and other amphibians in the pad than there were in the exhibits. Plus more animals over in the building where the Komodos where at and in the quarantine building and scattered around other buildings, there were even a good number of Uromastix that had been confiscated by the authorities that were being cared for by the zoo. I don’t know how many animals are there now but at least back then there were definitely more that 300 herps

 

[lanceheads]

Juan, I don't remember having met you, but the San Antonio show is mine. I have know Alan maybe 31 years, and while there have been a lot of employee's coming through that whole time, I would have thought I'd have met you.

 

[JG1153]

Juan, I don't remember having met you, but the San Antonio show is mine. I have know Alan maybe 31 years, and while there have been a lot of employee's coming through that whole time, I would have thought I'd have met you.

Yeah I know the show is yours. I was doing an internship at the zoo back then. I was only there during the weekends because I live in San Marcos so the drive is kinda long and my weekdays were taken up by school and work so that might explain why we never met, but I was there from Jan-May afterwhich I left to do a study abroad and when I came back it was my last semester of school so I was even busier and unfortunately I wasn't able to continue working with them. This was around the time Dereck (I think he's into geckkos) left the zoo and was replaced by a guy named Rob (he was into rattlers) but before Eddie became supervisor for the herpetology and aquarium department.