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Venomoidinc.com Inquiry

G

gbcop

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I know alot of people are against Venomoid's, so if you are one of those people, please save your comments as it's not the intentions of this post to start a debate.

So down to business. Has anyone purchased any animals from Jeremy at venomoidinc.com? I'm looking at several different animals of his and before I made a purchase I wanted to check with the BOI.

Any and all feedback is highly appreciated!

Thanks,

David Beaver
 
I'm not a big fan of venomoids, i believe if you cant keep the animal the way it was born then you shouldn't have it, its like cutting corners to me instead of working up and getting the experience to keep a venomous snake people want venomoids.

i have talked to Jeremy at reptile shows and he is very helpful even if you have questions about meds for your own snakes or if you have questions about the venomoids he will help. i guess i would say hes a good guy. make sure you are allowed to have them before getting one because if venomous is illegal then venomoids are also.
 
A personal friend of mine has purchased at least 3 different animals from venomoid. com for educational pourposes. The animals are healthy and eating great. The guy is a stand up guy and backs up his animals if you follow his care instructions. I personally am not into venomous or creating venomoids but this guy is a pro. hope this helps.
Phil R.
 
Ask him if he will sign a contract saying if the animal ever becomes venomous again he will be held responsible.
 
This months Reptiles Magazine offers a decent article on venomoid surgery.
The venom gland and ducts are removed.there is no venom and no delivery system for that venom if done properly.
 
You're risking your life and other people lives based on the word of a stranger.
He will not guarantee in writing that these snakes can never again envenomate a person. If the surgery was as good as he claims, and he used implants, then he should have no problem guarenteeing his work.
The fact that he won't guarentee it makes me question the so-called "quality" of his procedure.
If he removed the glands and ducts 100% as claimed, the snake could never produce venom again so why not stand behind your work?
Another thing that concerns me is that he is in NY. Hots are illegal in NY. How is it that he manages to get all these snakes and do the surgery when vets are not exempt from the laws regarding these?
 
Ask him if he will sign a contract saying if the animal ever becomes venomous again he will be held responsible.
Click to expand...

He will not guarantee in writing that these snakes can never again envenomate a person. If the surgery was as good as he claims, and he used implants, then he should have no problem guarenteeing his work.
Click to expand...

Well, on this issue, Ive heard from several experienced hot keepers that some species can regenerate the glands and duct, so even if the procedure is done properly, it is possible down the road for the snake to become "hot" again. This has been documented in several elapid species.

I know the OP didn't want to turn this into a discussion or a debate, but when I read those two statements I quoted above, I felt I needed to clarify why a dealer cannot legitimately guarantee beyond the shadow of a doubt that the venomoid will never ever ever become hot again; its just simply something out of his control...even if the surgery is done right.

Having said all that, this is why its important to regularly milk your venomoids to test if/when they start producing venom again.
 
MDC_Ophiuchus said:
Well, on this issue, Ive heard from several experienced hot keepers that some species can regenerate the glands and duct, so even if the procedure is done properly, it is possible down the road for the snake to become "hot" again. This has been documented in several elapid species.

I know the OP didn't want to turn this into a discussion or a debate, but when I read those two statements I quoted above, I felt I needed to clarify why a dealer cannot legitimately guarantee beyond the shadow of a doubt that the venomoid will never ever ever become hot again; its just simply something out of his control...even if the surgery is done right.

Having said all that, this is why its important to regularly milk your venomoids to test if/when they start producing venom again.
Click to expand...

How can they regenerate if they are completely removed and replaced with implants? Wouldn't the implant prevent any chance of the ducts and glands becoming functional again? If he was just removing the gland or cutting the ducts, I could see that they may regenrate but to have an implant in it's place, how can that not stop them from regaining the ability to produce a hot bite? If everything was removed and replaced with silicon implants, there should be no chance of it ever being able to envenomate a person. Provided that all was actually removed and the implants were actually put in place.
I would not want to risk my life on this person.
 
MDC_Ophiuchus said:
I know the OP didn't want to turn this into a discussion or a debate, but when I read those two statements I quoted above, I felt I needed to clarify why a dealer cannot legitimately guarantee beyond the shadow of a doubt that the venomoid will never ever ever become hot again; its just simply something out of his control...even if the surgery is done right.
Click to expand...


By all means, continue this discussion! I just wasn't intrested in comments in regards to how they feel it is unethical to own or support the venomoid procedure. I think this goes right along with my inqury!
 
Here's a good place to start: VenomDoc

Haven't been there in a while (probably because I keep forgetting my password), but I do remember reading several discussion regarding the regeneration of venom glands, etc. Very informative and worth the reading, if you're getting into venomoids.

Ray Hunter has also mentioned he's witnessed this happen with a snakes as well. Migh email him or give him a call.
 
I am against Voids probably more then most. But I want to clear up a myth.

If the gland is removed 100% it can not regenerate. But if any gland is missed it can repair itself and has been seen in elapids.
 
MDC_Ophiuchus said:
Here's a good place to start: VenomDoc

Haven't been there in a while (probably because I keep forgetting my password), but I do remember reading several discussion regarding the regeneration of venom glands, etc. Very informative and worth the reading, if you're getting into venomoids.

Ray Hunter has also mentioned he's witnessed this happen with a snakes as well. Migh email him or give him a call.
Click to expand...


The surgery in the cases you mention was done by a hacker.

If the gland is removed 100% it can not regenerate. If gland is left behind it can repair what is left behind to then again produce venom. You can ask Dr Fry this the owner of venomdoc.com

Just thought I would bring that up.
 
Okay...my mistake. Like I said, its been a few years since I really looked into venomoids. My memory apparently failed me.

I still think its good practice to milk your snakes regularly just to make sure. I mean, you still never know for sure if you got a venomoid unless:

a.) you witnessed the surgery yourself (which is rarely feasible)

b.) or as soon as the snake arrives, opening up its head and looking around (which is definitely not feasible...not to mention unnecessary stress on the snake!)
 
brrrman i hope your friend does not live in ny because venomous are banned there and i believe they go by species and not weather they are venomoids or not i would have him check and see if they are ok to have.
 
Veterinary Medicine

Vets, with any scruples, will not conduct this type of surgery. I am willing to bet that this guy is not a DVM. Is there not a charge for practicing veterinary medicine without license?

Sincerely,

Gino Beniquez
 
GinoInDaBronx said:
Vets, with any scruples, will not conduct this type of surgery. I am willing to bet that this guy is not a DVM. Is there not a charge for practicing veterinary medicine without license?

Sincerely,

Gino Beniquez
Click to expand...

That's a pretty big leap Gino, especially considering we don't even know the name of the person doing the surgeries.

This is from their website:
We are one of the only vendors offering venomoids that have been operated on by a licensed, practicing reptile surgeon holding a Doctorate of Veterinary Medicine.
Click to expand...

Perhaps they're lying, perhaps not. At this point I see no reason not to believe that statement. Your comment essentially states that there are vets who perform the surgery, just that in your opinion they lack scruples. When it comes to ethics, one man's scruples are often not that of another.

Aside from the usual comments against the practice of venomoids in general, I have never heard anything negative about them or their business practices.
We can be against venomoids as much as we want to be, but the reality is they are a part of the hobby and always will be as long as hots are legal to keep anywhere. Since venomoids will be made available like it or not, if they are being honest about their animals then I am glad they are in business. Perhaps it will help eliminate some of the kitchen table butchers that we all hate equally.
 
The person who does the surgery and owns venemoid Inc is Dr. Sabatini from NY. He is also the show vet for Hamburg. :rolleyes:
 
So I state again. Ask him to sign a contract saying that hsi voids will never produce venom again............................
 
Okay here is a group of e-mail correspondence between myself and Jeremy @ Venomoidinc.com.

Can anyone provide me with such proof of regeneration, or towards someone who might have so I can forward such information over to this guy? I have since become highly concerned with the fact that people have mentioned that regeneration is possible, and Venomoidinc.com has yet to answer my question as to a written contract, or what they would do in the event an animal does regenerate.

Thanks,

David B.

________________________________________________________________

David,
If you have any documentation of regeneration we would love to see it, please send us references. I can tell you that in over 8 years, and hundreds of snakes we have never had a problem.

Jeremy
www.venomoidinc.com





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Venomoid, Inc.: Shipping?
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:30:31 -0500


Jeremy,

I guess what I'm trying to ask is. If the licensed DVM you use on these animals missed part of the venom gland, and the animal reginerated it's venom glandes. Then what? I understand Your providing documentation that the animals underwent the venomoid procedure. And when in fact the animal regenerated its venom gland, which there have been reported cases of this. What then?

Thanks,

David Beaver
----- Original Message -----
From: Venomoid Inc.
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: Venomoid, Inc.: Shipping?


they all come with documentation stated that they are venomoids.

Jeremy
www.venomoidinc.com




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Venomoid, Inc.: Shipping?
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:54:03 -0500


Do you offer a signed contract or some type of written warranty on the animals you sell, should a part of the venom gland be missed and it "regrows"?
 
Why is Jeremy Sabatini acting like he is just a worker in the business?
He is the one who performs the surgery or at least that is what Venomoid Inc states since it is done by a licensed vet and Jeremy is a vet in NY.


Seems to me like he is avoiding the question and giving vague answers.

One of the top people in the world studying venom has found cases of regeneration. Go to the forum that Dr. Bryan Fry runs. He cites examples there.
http://www.venomdoc.com/
 
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