• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Vote***financing Fauna***vote

***Funding Poll** What do YOU think is appropriate? (More than 1 OK)

  • A general use fee of $35/year, membership would be required to access site

    Votes: 18 8.4%
  • A membership fee of $10-25/yr. to access the BOI

    Votes: 32 15.0%
  • $35/yr. general membership fee but BOI/classified free

    Votes: 23 10.7%
  • Increased advertising fees and fees for all advertising

    Votes: 80 37.4%
  • I don't care

    Votes: 7 3.3%
  • If there were a membership fee, I would not visit Fauna

    Votes: 74 34.6%
  • I have no concept of economics, I did not realize it costs money to run a website like this

    Votes: 4 1.9%
  • After seeing how hard Webslave works to maintain this site, I want to help

    Votes: 38 17.8%
  • Increase fines

    Votes: 46 21.5%
  • I have other ideas for funding which I have listed below in my post.

    Votes: 26 12.1%

  • Total voters
    214
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New members

I know that I would not have come to this site if there had
been a fee for looking.
I am rather new to the reptile world. Since joining. I come here
everyday. And have referred many people. Some have even bought
from your classifieds.
It is my opinion that if I was selling in the classifieds. I would want as
many people to view my ad as possible. And chargeing a fee for
membership just looking would limit the amount of potential buyers from
viewing the ad.

I guess if it comes down to it. And there is no other way.
then a fee for advertiseing would be the answer.
If the fee is reasonable. I do not know how this works.
What about a yearly advertiseing fee and/or a per ad fee.
That way for the ones that advertise all the time would get
a discount.
Just my two cents worth, probably worth about that much too.
Radena
 
Would you be able to respond to the person selling the item?
Radena
 
Radena said:
Would you be able to respond to the person selling the item?
Radena

99% of the ads include the sellers email, so you should be able to contact the seller directly. No problem.
 
As I may stand on the wrong side of the fence here. I can see taking donanations. You donate great you don't donate lets hope you put out usefull info.

Up your advertising rates ask for donations. But, trust me I find just as much usefull info off the web for free.

What really amazes me is all the people taking charge of funding fauna.
Now if all these Ideas were comming from the owner I could understand.
Seems to me people are just trying to make a name for themselves.

Hey I know start a fauna lottery or maybe a 50/50 raffle. Hahaha

Have a Great Day

Grady Robinson
 
Inside Out said:
Up your advertising rates ask for donations. But, trust me I find just as much usefull info off the web for free.

That would be the average person's perception, I suspect, whether it was true or not.

I personally think that $10 is more than fair for what you get from Fauna, but to the average person who isn't a hardcore regular here, any amount of money is going to be an impossible barrier. There are too many free sites, and the casual user will simply go to one of them rather than pay anything at all.


What really amazes me is all the people taking charge of funding fauna.Now if all these Ideas were comming from the owner I could understand.
Seems to me people are just trying to make a name for themselves.

Rich asked the membership to take some of their time and energy to help come up with a viable solution to keep Fauna alive. I really doubt that anyone here is complying with his request to "make a name for themselves". I think that most of us are here pitching in because we care about the board and want to help. I don't know why you're here, but evidently it's not for the same reason.
 
Radena said:
Would you be able to respond to the person selling the item?
Radena

Yes. I can set permissions on any forum for any user group so that one or more of the following are enabled:
  • a viewer can create a new thread (ad)
  • a viewer can reply to ONLY their own thread
  • a viewer can reply to ONLY threads created by someone else

Just to be certain that the definitions of "viewer" are understood, a "viewer" can be one of the following:
  • Guest - This is someone just visiting this site and has not registered, or has registered but is not logged in. Generally this includes people who have registered but have not verified the registration completely by clicking on the email verification link that was sent to them when they registered.
  • Non-Paying Member - This is any member who has fully registered with the system and has chosen to not pay any membership fee offered.
  • Paying Member - This is a member who has paid at least the minimum level fee to be a paying member of this site. At this time this is simplistic, because there may be multiple levels of Paying Members, with escalating permissions enabled. So bear this in mind, please.

So in this case for the classified sections,
  • a guest (or unregistered) could read the ads but not reply to them nor create a thread (ad) themselves.
  • A non-paying member could read the thread (ads) and reply to them, but could not post a thread (ad).
  • A paying member could post a thread, reply to their own thread, and reply to other's threads.

In the case of the BOI it would be:
  • guests and unregistered viewers would not be able to view the BOI, nor post anything in it.
  • non-paying members would be able to view the BOI, but not able to post new threads nor replies to any of them.
  • paying members would be able to read the BOI and post both new threads and replies.

Other forums in the business related sections will likely have some variation of one of the above scenarios as well, but I just haven't taken the time to determine which ones will be affected.

The general discussion forums will be open to viewing by everyone, guests and members alike, but ONLY members, both paying and non-paying, will be able to post freely within them all. Generally, as a rule throughout this site, guests cannot post messages at all. The only places I have made an exception to this is in the HELP! and TESTING forums in the Admin section.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
 
Inside Out said:
What really amazes me is all the people taking charge of funding fauna.
Now if all these Ideas were comming from the owner I could understand.
Seems to me people are just trying to make a name for themselves
Grady Robinson

What really amazes me is that people post here without understanding what they are talking about. Rich asked the membership to come up with Ideas to figure out a way to fund fauna, I see a lot of the dedicated members doing just that trying to help out and come up with ideas.

Inside Out said:
Hey I know start a fauna lottery or maybe a 50/50 raffle. Hahaha

I am glad you find this so funny, this is a serious matter, a lot of us have come to depend on this site for information concerning sales, businesses and animals. If something isnt done to bring more funds into fauna it may just go away, guess you can have a good laugh on that as well.

I hope that all the dedicated members to this site keep posting ideas and suggestions to come up with a plan for rich to better fund this site. The more members that post ideas the better the chance on finding a solution to the problem.

With a matter as serious as this (the possibility of fauna going under) you really should try to pitch in instead of casting stones. But i guess in your opinion I am just trying to make a name for myself.
 
WebSlave said:
So in this case for the classified sections,
  • a guest (or unregistered) could read the ads but not reply to them nor create a thread (ad) themselves.
  • A non-paying member could read the thread (ads) and reply to them, but could not post a thread (ad).
  • A paying member could post a thread, reply to their own thread, and reply to other's threads.

That looks like a sound business model.


In the case of the BOI it would be:
  • guests and unregistered viewers would not be able to view the BOI, nor post anything in it.
  • non-paying members would be able to view the BOI, but not able to post new threads nor replies to any of them.
  • paying members would be able to read the BOI and post both new threads and replies.

Rich, I'm sorry, but I believe that policy is going to cripple the BOI, significantly reducing its effectiveness to the community as well as its value as a draw to the Fauna site. I will do my best to support the site regardless, but I will be very sorry to see the results of this policy being implemented. I think it will basically kill the site.

Just how much money would make it possible for you to keep the BOI more open for the public to read and post in, in a similar model to what you are planning for the classifieds? Is it possible that the regulars who care about the site and don't want to see it torpedoed could collectively come up with the money?
 
Tanith, I do hear what you are saying, but the BOI has reached a crossroads. I have heard people say time and time again that the BOI is a "joke", "worthless", "good only for entertainment", etc., etc. I have had people taunt me privately that they can register as many times as they please and post whenever they want on the BOI no matter what I do about it. I have had people bypass the fines and suspensions at will. We have caught MANY people posting as someone else to give them an "attaboy" post or else as multiple people to post bad guy posts to help look like there is a large amount of support for their claim.

This has to end, or the BOI has no real effectiveness. That is one of the solutions I am trying to come up with. NO ONE has come up with anything else that is suitable as an alternative.

I believe you mentioned a 1 month trial period. What good would that do for what I am trying to do with the BOI? Not a thing. It would completely negate the purpose of the fee as being a toll gate for the abuses I am trying to eliminate.

This is NOT all about just getting a revenue influx for this site. I am trying to combine this with what I see as something ABSOLUTELY needed if the BOI, and this site along with it, is going to be able to progress beyond the "soap opera" stage it is now in.

So tell me, anyone, if you were faced with the task of trying to increase the credibility of the BOI, which implies the MEMBERS that are posting on there, how would YOU do it? Oh to nip this in the bud before someone comes up with it: If anyone thinks I am going to require phone numbers from everyone, and call them up, long distance on my dime, you can just kick that idea right out of your head. Another idea that has already been rejected is to have me refuse registrations from free email accounts. But several people have provided me with what I consider as genuinely good reasons why this is not a good idea. Not the least of which is that there is a HUGE membership base that uses AOL accounts that I would have to boot out of here. So that just is NOT feasible.

So, as should be very obvious by now, I am open for suggestions. I really hope someone can come up with an idea that I have not thought of over the years, but I would be gratified to be pleasantly surprised if it happens.

Oh, there was one other alternative that I have considered, that I may as well lay on the table right now: Just not give a damn about it and let it go as it is. Which means not wasting my time, nor that of my moderators patrolling the BOI trying to catch these fake IDs and bogus registrations. Certainly if people are not willing to pay for the hope of increased credibility, then I may well consider this option more strongly. I mean, sheesh, is $10 really that much of a killer to most people? I thought that if I kept the price low enough, it wouldn't really hurt anyone. But maybe I just overestimated the majority of the people coming to this site. But I do tend to do that. One of my biggest character flaws, I do believe.
 
WebSlave said:
Also, sorry, but I am just not of the mind to implement anything at all that would take more money out of my pocket in order to hire my programmer to do it.

I haven't read all the posts on the forum, but Web Slave, how much do you totally spend on your site? I'd realyl like to know. I know its in the hundreds of dollars at least but please tell me ([email protected]). When I'm not in such a tight spot for money right now I think you'd want me to donate ;) Otherwise I would, but thanks to fauna sparking my interest, I have to build a few hundred dollar's worth of cage's and this isn't the time to donate.

I used to own a site pay for it and everything but if there is one thing that is really hard to do is Graphics, Programming and coding. However, when I needed help I talked to my friend who is a programmer and he figured out how to do this and that and he was awsome on it.... If you need one I'd give you his contact info...

Otherwise Thank You for putting up such a site if it wasn't for Fauna I wouldn't have the beauties I have now ;)
 
snakegetters said:
Rich asked the membership to take some of their time and energy to help come up with a viable solution to keep Fauna alive. I really doubt that anyone here is complying with his request to "make a name for themselves". I think that most of us are here pitching in because we care about the board and want to help. I don't know why you're here, but evidently it's not for the same reason.
Tanith you are so right and when called upon we as a "Community" come together and try to come up with solutions to what needs to be addressed thats what this site a valuable asset to the Herp World and Im proud to be part of it
 
JAOA49 said:
I haven't read all the posts on the forum, but Web Slave, how much do you totally spend on your site? I'd realyl like to know. I know its in the hundreds of dollars at least but please tell me ([email protected]).

Sorry, but I don't think it is appropriate to discuss things like this with anyone. Even when I was getting a paycheck, I learned early on that discussing your pay with coworkers is a really bad thing to do, for everyone involved.

But I will tell you this: All of the money I have gotten from people signing up for the Contributor Memberships, to date, has just barely covered what I had to pay my programmer in the last month or so for the work he has done. Right now, with the server moves taking place, I am now paying for four (4) servers until I can be satisfied that the new ones are stable and can release the older two. I use top of the line servers, so they are NOT cheap.

And heck, I don't know. What is MY time worth these days?
 
WebSlave said:
Tanith, I do hear what you are saying, but the BOI has reached a crossroads. I have heard people say time and time again that the BOI is a "joke", "worthless", "good only for entertainment", etc., etc. I have had people taunt me privately that they can register as many times as they please and post whenever they want on the BOI no matter what I do about it. I have had people bypass the fines and suspensions at will. We have caught MANY people posting as someone else to give them an "attaboy" post or else as multiple people to post bad guy posts to help look like there is a large amount of support for their claim.

This has to end, or the BOI has no real effectiveness. That is one of the solutions I am trying to come up with. NO ONE has come up with anything else that is suitable as an alternative.

I believe you mentioned a 1 month trial period. What good would that do for what I am trying to do with the BOI? Not a thing. It would completely negate the purpose of the fee as being a toll gate for the abuses I am trying to eliminate.

This is NOT all about just getting a revenue influx for this site. I am trying to combine this with what I see as something ABSOLUTELY needed if the BOI, and this site along with it, is going to be able to progress beyond the "soap opera" stage it is now in.

So tell me, anyone, if you were faced with the task of trying to increase the credibility of the BOI, which implies the MEMBERS that are posting on there, how would YOU do it? Oh to nip this in the bud before someone comes up with it: If anyone thinks I am going to require phone numbers from everyone, and call them up, long distance on my dime, you can just kick that idea right out of your head. Another idea that has already been rejected is to have me refuse registrations from free email accounts. But several people have provided me with what I consider as genuinely good reasons why this is not a good idea. Not the least of which is that there is a HUGE membership base that uses AOL accounts that I would have to boot out of here. So that just is NOT feasible.

So, as should be very obvious by now, I am open for suggestions. I really hope someone can come up with an idea that I have not thought of over the years, but I would be gratified to be pleasantly surprised if it happens.

Oh, there was one other alternative that I have considered, that I may as well lay on the table right now: Just not give a damn about it and let it go as it is. Which means not wasting my time, nor that of my moderators patrolling the BOI trying to catch these fake IDs and bogus registrations. Certainly if people are not willing to pay for the hope of increased credibility, then I may well consider this option more strongly. I mean, sheesh, is $10 really that much of a killer to most people? I thought that if I kept the price low enough, it wouldn't really hurt anyone. But maybe I just overestimated the majority of the people coming to this site. But I do tend to do that. One of my biggest character flaws, I do believe.


Webslave,
The one thing I think when I see the idea of paying to post on the BOI.
Let's say someone comes and makes a bad guy post for Joe Schmoo.
Now Joe Schmoo has never heard of this site but his name is now being called
into question. Yet he has to pay a fee to defend himself at a site he has never heard of (or may not want to be a member of). So at this point he has to make a decision of whether he wants to pay whatever membership fee or just let said person/people bash his reputation.
I really feel this would take away from what the BOI is meant for (my opinion).

I have no solve all solution to fix what people think is wrong with this site (in some peoples opinion). But as I have seen when people do reregister they are more often than not called out on it very quickly.

Once again this is just my opinion.


-Rory Rygiewicz
 
WebSlave said:
Tanith, I do hear what you are saying, but the BOI has reached a crossroads. I have heard people say time and time again that the BOI is a "joke", "worthless", "good only for entertainment", etc., etc. I have had people taunt me privately that they can register as many times as they please and post whenever they want on the BOI no matter what I do about it. I have had people bypass the fines and suspensions at will. We have caught MANY people posting as someone else to give them an "attaboy" post or else as multiple people to post bad guy posts to help look like there is a large amount of support for their claim.

*nods* Okay, so the solution you implement has to effectively end people's ability to come back painlessly after being banned for abuse. Would it work to do the following?

1. Grandfather most of the current accounts. Yes, I know that this would mean we would still have some of the current problem users, at least until they were caught and thrown off. So this would mean some additional mod time to catch people abusing the system. It would also mean you would not have the precipitous and disastrous drop in the user base that I forsee happening if you make everyone pay to register. To help weed out the user base a little more, you could grandfather in only the accounts that had X number of posts to help verify that these were individual people.

2. Make the BOI read-accessible to registered but non paying memberships, but not writable. I suspect that making it completely inaccessible to the public would effectively be website suicide.


I believe you mentioned a 1 month trial period. What good would that do for what I am trying to do with the BOI? Not a thing. It would completely negate the purpose of the fee as being a toll gate for the abuses I am trying to eliminate.

You're right, so how about another way to hook'em? What we want to accomplish is to introduce people to Fauna with a sampling of the goods so that they are willing to pay to play. A read-only access would help.

If I came across a closed website that purported to offer what Fauna offered, except I had to pay $10 before I could even see it, I wouldn't pay the $10. I'd websearch for the information I wanted instead, because I would never have had the opportunity to see what I'd be getting for my $10. Most people won't buy a pig in a poke, or a snake in a sack, as it were.

Another possibility is to allow registered but non paying members the ability to buy a smaller increment of posting credits - say, $1 or $2 for a single post. Such posts would be clearly marked as such, leaving it obviously visible if too many posts of that nature turned up in certain people's threads. I see potential problems with this solution, including extra programming time, so it may not be a viable one.


So tell me, anyone, if you were faced with the task of trying to increase the credibility of the BOI, which implies the MEMBERS that are posting on there, how would YOU do it?

I might research the model that adult sites use for age verification, and require a credit card to sign up whether or not a fee was charged.

I might also try the cryptographic "network of trust" model used with PGP keys, which puts the burden on your userbase to verify which members score high on the trust scale because enough trusted users have personally contacted them. All you have to do as the admin is to sign off on which users on your site are personally known to you face to face or on the phone. In turn those users sign for others who are personally known to them in the same manner, and so on and so forth. Signing someone's key means that you are verifying that you have met and/or spoken to them. Only people in your personal "web of trust" can verify keys for your purposes. This can certainly be abused, but it's actually a lot more difficult to abuse than it sounds if it's set up using the PGP model. It works remarkably well in public key cryptography.


Another idea that has already been rejected is to have me refuse registrations from free email accounts. But several people have provided me with what I consider as genuinely good reasons why this is not a good idea. Not the least of which is that there is a HUGE membership base that uses AOL accounts that I would have to boot out of here. So that just is NOT feasible.

Combine the two ideas perhaps. The "pay as you go" or free registrations might require a real email account, whereas the regular memberships could stick with a free address.


I mean, sheesh, is $10 really that much of a killer to most people? I thought that if I kept the price low enough, it wouldn't really hurt anyone. But maybe I just overestimated the majority of the people coming to this site. But I do tend to do that. One of my biggest character flaws, I do believe.

Yes, it is going to be a killer to casual users who are not personally interested or committed to the board. The average browser is going to see the fee and run straight to Google to look for a free alternative.
 
deicide,

That is exactly where I was torn in the beginning. Why should someone have to pay to defend themselves against possible false accusations. Then the more I thought about it and heard Rich's reasons, the more I think charging a fee will do way more good than harm.

Although, I still think the BOI should be open to free registered members as read-only. One should not have to pay to see if someone is posting about them or to find out who is honest and who is not. If the charges are false, then $10 is nothing to save your reputation. I mean come on, I can fill up my tank with gas and go inside and spend another $10 on BS at the gas station. A couple of sodas, a bag or two of cashews, a candy bar for the youngin', etc. $10 is nothing. We blow $10 on BS all the time. $10 is too much to face you accusers over your business and its future? I don't think so.

If the person truly is guilty then they may not pay the $10 and just take the beating without it turning into 57 pages of BS that was solved on page 2. I really think it will help clean up the BOI. But I can not stress enough that the BOI should be read-only access for non paying registered members though.
 
I might research the model that adult sites use for age verification, and require a credit card to sign up whether or not a fee was charged.

Tanith,

Wouldn't we be leaving out the minors? From what we have seen over the years in the BOI they are quite a large group, and also the future of our hobby/industry. What about those that for one reason or another don't have current access to a credit card?

Regards.
 
shrap said:
deicide,

That is exactly where I was torn in the beginning. Why should someone have to pay to defend themselves against possible false accusations. Then the more I thought about it and heard Rich's reasons, the more I think charging a fee will do way more good than harm.

Although, I still think the BOI should be open to free registered members as read-only. One should not have to pay to see if someone is posting about them or to find out who is honest and who is not. If the charges are false, then $10 is nothing to save your reputation. I mean come on, I can fill up my tank with gas and go inside and spend another $10 on BS at the gas station. A couple of sodas, a bag or two of cashews, a candy bar for the youngin', etc. $10 is nothing. We blow $10 on BS all the time. $10 is too much to face you accusers over your business and its future? I don't think so.

If the person truly is guilty then they may not pay the $10 and just take the beating without it turning into 57 pages of BS that was solved on page 2. I really think it will help clean up the BOI. But I can not stress enough that the BOI should be read-only access for non paying registered members though.


I'm gonna condense this story the best I can.
About 8 years ago I was diagnosed with both cancer of the Larynx and cancer of the Pharynx.
At that time I knew I would have many treatments coming. I started thinking of the amount of snakes I had at that time. I had over 80 snakes and knew these treatments would make my ability to care for these snakes subpar. I couldn't live with that so I sold/adopted them out to good poeple who I knew.
Also lets say one of these people posted I was a bad guy because one of snakes was not what they expected.
Now keeping that in mind lets say a hobbyist gets to a point they have sell a snake or 2 to pay some bills or basically to survive(groceries, utilities, etc..).
So yes to them $10.00 maybe alot. But just because they can't afford the membership fee (could be using that to feed the animals). They are automatically guilty of being a scammer because they can't afford to pay the fee??

This can and will impact there ability to buy good quality animals in the future.
As we have all seen many people refuse to sell to people labled as a bad guy on this site.

So in essence you are holding someones reputation as "hostage" for the price of a membership fee. That just don't sit well with me.

While I agree I can spend $10 without even thinking of it there are others who are right at the edge. Where that $10 can be food for a few days, could feed a few snakes, etc..etc..

So I guess what I am saying is are we to disregard the hobbyist for the business people??


Once again just my observations and my opinion.
 
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