Vote***financing Fauna***vote

[lizwinz]

i would just like to know one thing... we have contributed monies for some time now
what are the cost to run this site? or have we in the past been helping you to perhaps fund your ongoging feud with jeff b.

comments like that confuse me...btw the above is only an example i've seen others similar to it in all these threads about the same subject

why do some people think that Rich owes us an accounting of the money he's spent? it's not like this is a non-profit charity that is required to do so

Does anyone pose these kind of questions when they pay for other services or goods?

yes, it has been a free website that has accepted "donations" but Rich is still providing a service by maintaining it and it is after all his site...so what is done with the money is really none of our business imo, even if some of things being insinuated were true(personally i dont think so)the bottom line is that Rich has decided that Fauna,as it is now, is not worth the time and money he has put into it

so what do questions like this accomplish?

i'm not trying to start an argument with anyone, i just really do not understand this

--liz

 

[Monte]

I understand your point . . .

. . . but the fact is - Rich has asked for advice, and like it or not, these types of questions will come up.

I fully agree that this is Rich's business alone - but those horses are already out of the barn. You have to expect these questions, when you ask the public how you should run your business.

Rich, tell us what you want to do. I did like that one idea you grabbed on to - the one with escalating membership. Would that model, combined with ads/banners give you the revenue streams needed to make this site is worth the effort?

I say it again - I'm for you, bud. Tell us how it's going to work. But expect that people will have questions.

 

[lizwinz]

I fully agree that this is Rich's business alone - but those horses are already out of the barn. You have to expect these questions, when you ask the public how you should run your business.

I see your point as well, but the fact is that alot of these questions are not being asked in the spirit of being helpful such as trying to find better prices etc, they are downright accusing in nature...like hey, buddy what excatly have you been doing with our money all this time

thats the attitude i dont understand

--liz

 

[Chris@TSE]

I believe you must be a contributing member in order to post in the classifieds. Period. I do not agree with a paid membership for all aspects of the board, especially not the BOI. EVERYONE deserves the right to view such a valueable resourse. It would simply be like forcing people to pay in order not to get ripped off, not very ethical IMO. I believe charging for the classifieds section though would be a spectacular idea!

 

[Wilomn]

I believe you must be a contributing member in order to post in the classifieds. Period. I do not agree with a paid membership for all aspects of the board, especially not the BOI. EVERYONE deserves the right to view such a valueable resourse. It would simply be like forcing people to pay in order not to get ripped off, not very ethical IMO. I believe charging for the classifieds section though would be a spectacular idea!

I must have missed the initial public offering of Fauna Stock.

Unless.....

This is still a privately owned and operated site that is NOT a right to be taken when and as you want but a priviledge and, as such, may well come at some sort of cost.

Be that cost the amount you are out for dealing with a known bad guy (known to Fauna members at any rate) or the Ten bucks it would have cost to run a check on him, that is entirely up to you, the individual.

 

[WebSlave]

i would just like to know one thing... we have contributed monies for some time now
what are the cost to run this site? or have we in the past been helping you to perhaps fund your ongoging feud with jeff b.

I have already answered this one. Perhaps even in this same thread, I don't remember.

Jeff and I settled our differences amicably. This can be construed as a "settlement", but it was done in a friendly atmosphere and with each of us agreeing to some "terms" that were in everyone's best interests. Of course, attorneys being what they are, put in stipulations that the actual details remain private. But to answer the question posed directly: NO. This plan of mine has absolutely nothing at all to do with that situation. That is officially over and done with and hopefully Jeff and I can go on with our respective sites peacefully.

I believe you must be a contributing member in order to post in the classifieds. Period. I do not agree with a paid membership for all aspects of the board, especially not the BOI. EVERYONE deserves the right to view such a valueable resourse. It would simply be like forcing people to pay in order not to get ripped off, not very ethical IMO. I believe charging for the classifieds section though would be a spectacular idea!

Interesting perspective. Do you believe that it is unethical for a doctor to charge you money to cure an illness? A surgeon to charge you money to excise a ruptured appendix? Pharmaceutical companies charging money for medicines that you would die without having? An insurance company to charge you for protections against losses you may incur unexpectedly in the future? How about a towing service charging you to tow you to the nearest garage when your vehicle breaks down?

Entire INDUSTRIES are built upon the misfortunes of others, it appears. Are they ETHICAL in doing so?

 

[W.Wedeking]

Originally posted by Webslave:
Interesting perspective. Do you believe that it is unethical for a doctor to charge you money to cure an illness? A surgeon to charge you money to excise a ruptured appendix? Pharmaceutical companies charging money for medicines that you would die without having? An insurance company to charge you for protections against losses you may incur unexpectedly in the future? How about a towing service charging you to tow you to the nearest garage when your vehicle breaks down?

There is a fundamental difference between charging for medical care/car repair. These would be concidered a "dyer" need. There is no "dyer" need for the BOI (blasphomy, I know).

I believe that charging for posting on the BOI will greatly reduce the number of people who post/view this area. It is the number of people relaying their experiences both good and bad that make the BOI work. With out them, you have an exclusive "club" who, in reality will have no pull with the rest of the reptile world at all.

 

[nicolai]

changes to my last post..

Level 1) Free - status = "participant"
a) access to BOI to search and view - no posting
b) access to all participate in reptile and animal talk forums
c) access to view classified

Level 2)10.00yr - status = "Member"
a) everything included in level 1
b) Ability to post on the BOI
c) access to user "CP" (avatar and profile included)
d) Private messaging enabled
e) ability to participate in auctions
f) Able to use the "Live Chat" room

Level 3)25.00yr - status = "Contributing Member"
a) Everything included in levels 1 and 2
b) Access to "hell"
c) Ability to give and recieve "reputation points"
d) Free link to personal Web page under Avatar
e) access to post in higher forums ( feedback forum,legal forum, etc..all forums)
f) ability to contact "moderators/Rich" meaning reporting bad posts,problems. and other issues...this would keep the complaints dowwn to a minimum and less whining to listen to.


Level 4)35.00yr - "Full Member"
a) everything included in levels 1 through 3
b) Ability to post classified Ads
c) Ability to post thier banner on every classified ad they post.
d) Ability to link thier ads to thier BOI Reputation "if they want"
e) free picture hosting for thier ads

If you dont agree just say so, please dont slam my rep points.

I also think that warning point should be penalized to be a 1 dollar per point the first 20 are free, after that each additional 10 points you must pay the according 10.00 or be suspended.

Also i think it is just about unanimous that charging to "view" and "search" the BOI would hurt the site more then it could possibly help it. But when you talk about "posting" on the BOI I think you should indeed have to be a paying member of the "10.00 regular member" fee. If you are posting that means you are thinking of making a purchase and 10.00 is nothing compared to peace of mind., as well as if you post to defend yourself against a post someone else has put there against you, anyone out there would felel it worth 10.00 a yr to save thier reputation on the BOI.

One last thing, I see a lot of people "telling" rich what he should or shouldnt do, when it comes right down to it lets all remember this is his site and he can do what ever the hell he wants to do with it and what ever that is we should appreciate it.Even though a lot of the people feel that rich is "obligated" to keep it going for the die-hard members (myself included), he is under no legal obligation what-so-ever to keep this site going. Rich has put a lot of time and effort into this site and deserves to reap some benefits from his labors here .(wouldnt you expect the same?? ) lets all figure out a way to make this site a little more profitable for rich.

 

[DaveyFig]

OK it has already been stated that the fee is inevitable, and will be charged, but this poll is being allowed to run its course. Nobody can change the fact that the fee will be implemented, but this is here to draw donations from those thinking that they can somehow curb the fee.
Is everyone that is making donations now going to have to pay again when the fee is implemented, or are their donations prorated?
I think it would be pretty crappy to leave the poll so that people would make donations to try to change something they aren't going to change, and then charge those people again. There are people who said they will not pay a fee. I am not one of them, but it seems that the most hardcore "I will pay the fee" people are the ones donating NOW, and are going to be charged when the fee is implemented too. I am sure none of them have a problem with paying, but this is like making them pay twice. I think if the fee is to be implemented, it needs to be done soon,and this poll closed, so that all of the people who are making donations aren't getting milked just so that a few more dollars can be made off of the members who actually support the fee prior to its implementation.
I thought about making a donation today, but I don't want to donate money today, and then be forced to pay tomorrow. It is a hard idea to swallow paying in the first place, but I will do it. I just can't imagine being generous enough to send money, and then being told I have to send it again or i can't participate.

 

[WebSlave]

No Dave. Take a look at that scale that nicolai posted. Each higher level includes the lower levels below it. Anyone signing up for a Contributors Membership now would have all access rights that the lower membership(s) would entail.

 

[jmkhet]

Hey WebSlave, do you have a timetable for this fee?I mean like Dave said, there IS going to be a fee no matter what right?Also if the fee IS to be implemented, are you going to have to pay the whole fee right away, by the week, by the month?Thanks, Josh McDermott

 

[W.Wedeking]

Just a thought

There seem to be the same people here posting as always. What about the people who we haven't heard from? Rich, have you thought of doing a private email poll to estimate just how many would leave/stay?

 

[WebSlave]

Hey WebSlave, do you have a timetable for this fee?I mean like Dave said, there IS going to be a fee no matter what right?Also if the fee IS to be implemented, are you going to have to pay the whole fee right away, by the week, by the month?Thanks, Josh McDermott

Nothing is set in stone. Someone still could come up with something I haven't thought of that was feasible that would work to cover all of the bases I am trying to consider.

As for not paying the whole fee right away..... $10 over time payments? You're kidding, right?

There seem to be the same people here posting as always. What about the people who we haven't heard from? Rich, have you thought of doing a private email poll to estimate just how many would leave/stay?

Yeah, I see that. The original thread I created to approach this topic languished away in the Feedback forum since around mid November with very little input. So I guess the majority of the people don't care either way or are just waiting to see what happens and post their opinions ex post facto.

As for the email poll, if even half of the members responded, just WHO is going to read all of those reply emails and the correlate them into a poll? What sort of time to you think that would take? Thanks, but NO thanks!

 

[jmkhet]

No im not kidding...but i thought it was 35 dollars....Josh McDermott.

 

[W.Wedeking]

A simple check the "yes" or "no" box and I would be happy to donate time for this.

 

[Sasheena]

I really like nicolai's graduated scale of fees, I think that addresses a lot of issues that people have. I think one concern that may or may not have been answered adequately can be better stated by an example.

I forget the date, but let's say that 2 months ago I paid $25 to be a contributing member. Today (with 10 months remaining on my 1-year contributorship), WebSlave decides to go with Nicholai's graduated scale. That would put me in the almost top level. I can choose to keep that current level that $25 buys me, or fork out the additional $10 to put myself in the highest category. My understanding of the fairest way of doing this would be that I could pay the $10, and in ten months, I would be paying up again. I would not suddenly go down to ZERO.... but I would not have an entire year from TODAY either.

This would be the fair implementation of the system. So for those who are afraid that donating YESTERDAY would result in a ZERO balance on the day that WebSlave implements changes...well I very highly doubt this to be true. (he can of course correct me if I'm wrong).

Anyway, I hope this makes some sort of sense.

 

[robin d.]

this was typed out by me, from another thread.

i do not have a problem with paying any monies but i think charging for BOI acess will cause this site to die.
why? this site has grown around the BOI cutting off your basic draw and charging for it will cause people to go elsewhere. i also suspect people mght pay to post a BAD experience but what about the good guys? i honestly doubt people will pay to post about the good guys.... shoot the bad guys post ALWAYS get more hits than do the good guys and generally more comments in the thread.
let's say you are the one being accused of being a bad guy but can not afford (forwhatever reason) the price... do you just sit and watch your name be tarnished?
or what if you have done a wonderful transaction and you are just starting up in the hobby with no name for yourself yet, do you honest think people are going to pay to say "hey so and so was great and has great animals blah blah blah"? no i doubt it... yes i think there should be paid sections BUT charging for the area that is the main site draw will kill the entire site.
Just now after what four or five years are just NOW getting the forums moving as well as the classifieds.. more larger scale breeders and dealers are posting ads here for a reason.. they see the site is growing... i do not think these people would have any problem paying for the classified ads, banner ads and what not if the trafic continues. i was about to buy a banner ad slot and a sponsor link but if my money is spent in vain and the fee's are implimented and people leave.. the money i have worked hard for was justifiablely spent wrong. yeah the money i spend will help NOW but what happens if the main draw is cut off (BOI) and the users stop coming? i have to look at this as a business decision and weigh my options...

i know of several others as well waiting to see what happens... it is not personal it is from a business standpoint... i guess thats what it is coming down to for allot of us

 

[bcfos]

Brian, I seriously doubt you were able to tie into a T1 connection on a pole.

I have the fastest service that Comcast provides, but it is nowhere near what is needed to run a web server on. Matter of fact, the download and upload speeds are exactly the opposite of what you would need for something like that. For a server, you would need the upload speeds much faster then the download speeds. This doesn't happen with ISP connections.

Nope I just expidited my order with Comcast is all.

But if you ever do need instructions on fiber optic terminations and splicing I do have those certifications thanks to a vendor of mine Alcoa.

 

[Bringerofdoom]

I Understand where rich is coming from. I ran several sites in the past that the cost's comes directly from my pockets, then when I tried to find ways to even try to even out with the monthly bills, people went irate. Seemingly people think its simple, cheap work to manage a site, even a forum. They really dont know all the other stuff you do, that never gets said or announced. Some people are even brash enough to think you make plenty of money just on your banners. Whats worse its seems its always the common problem anymore. Site cost's soar, with no way but to eat the cost's youself. Then when you ask the public (who helps run up the bandwith fee's and ask for your non-stop help) to help out, they revolt and refuse to use the service.

Look at msn chat, Large Free chat service. Everyone and their dog used to use it, M$ ask for cash for it, so that they could help filter out child molesters and other unwanted's (spammers,etc) Alot of people quit using it and went to ther like services. Sure the chat is better now, but you got some a-holes on there that think that their money deserves them special treatment. I fear the same would happen to fauna, Bad guy pay $10-$35 gets harrased over his stupidty and threatens to pull his money/file lawsuits/etc over it.

To figure out howto adress the issue of badguys constantly registering to continue posting and trollling, plus balance the monthly server cost's is make or break it for Fauna. The ones who know how powerfull and usefull a tool the boi is would pay, the ones that laughed and didnt take this site seriously will leave. Roger Jolly had some valid points in his post, but just how true they pan out in the end depends on everyone here to support Fauna.

 

[WebSlave]

...... I fear the same would happen to fauna, Bad guy pay $10-$35 gets harrased over his stupidty and threatens to pull his money/file lawsuits/etc over it.

Heck I get that now. Banner advertisers leave when I don't make things go their way. Bad guys threatening lawsuits because I won't delete their own incriminating words. So what would be new?