warning on bakers boas!

[far north boas]

no they where not, Im whating for chris to ship me my albino motley and its still not the wright temp to ship!

 

[Robert Baker]

Response #4

Please define what an inexperienced keeper is? I shipped Cory boas previously in 2007. He had at least 6+ boas for a year minimum, before he got these 2 other boas from me. These were just boas I know of that he had bought from me. This was not the boy's first rodeo.

This was a big red flag for me also, most boas start out on at least hopper mice....some small adult mice.
A boa in that condition should not be sold to an inexperienced keeper. the end result is never gonna be good.

I feed ALL my baby boas live pinkie mice, since I have them readily available. They then get upgraded the older they get. Attached are pictures of the young healthy male snow boa before it was sent to Cory.

Also, I shipped the boa to Cory when it was 34/24 degrees in AK. He had days he could have shipped the boa back that were warmer that the day I shipped to him. I do not recommend shipping in real cold weather but living in a cold weather state you learn to use a lot of insulation. Plus, if he could not ship the boa back because it was too cold, he should have told me that BEFORE the snake died. Instead he tells you guys it was BELOW ZERO and he could not ship.

Bottom line, look at the facts. I sent a boa to Cory that was eating for me, although it could be picky. I gave Cory full disclosure on the boa's condition and what it was eating. He still wanted the boa. Cory indicated it was not eating well for him over a month later. I offered to take the boa back! He did not send the boa back. I have Terms and Conditions that are in black and white, which are on page he ordered the boas from. Even an inexperienced boa keeper can read. Even an inexperienced boa keeper can ship a package back to the sender. Now we are sitting at 129 days later, the poor snake is dead and now he wants something to be done. Plus, he still owes me $600 for the female that he has not paid for.

 

[KelliH]

I gave Cory full disclosure on the boa's condition and what it was eating. He still wanted the boa.

If you did indeed specify to him that that animal was a poor feeder and he decided to buy it anyway then that was his decision, his risk. Is there an email you can post that shows you stating to him before he paid for the snake that it was a poor feeder?

 

[KelliH]

Also, I shipped the boa to Cory when it was 34/24 degrees in AK. He had days he could have shipped the boa back that were warmer that the day I shipped to him.

I was going by the links to the weather calenders that you posted, which shows that for the months of November and December there were only four days total when the high was higher than 34. On all four of those days the high was 35. Just sayin'.

 

[David Reid]

Although the buyer may have accepted the Boa as a picky feeder, if I read correctly, the Boa never ate after Cory got it. That could be a picky feeder going off food because of the cold temps it was shipped in, or because of poor conditions provided by Cory. If he does have other Boas, and they are all thriving, why would this Boa, a picky feeder, that never ate, be the only dead Boa?

 

[far north boas]

All I wanted was a phone call from ROBERT. He did not have time to call me or email me, yet he has plenty of time to post the Anchorage weather in a forum. I am a very new breeder, still learning. Ok so I bought my first snakes from Robert in 2007. I have the knowledge of feeding, watering heat, humidity...... however, He knows I was not ready for a "non eating" boa,( he honestly NEVER ate) finicky is a HUGE understatement! Robert obviously can't "post" the hours of phone conversations we had where I asked alot of questions about what I was getting into as a breeder. I guess I learned first hand what I was getting into dealing with him. If you weren't ever going to make the situation whole you shouldn't of left me a voicemail stating you would. Im not going to BICKER back and forth anymore. You sold me a unhealthy non eating snake and that is not what you "DISCLOSED" to one of your "favorite clients". Mark my words, you will never get far treating your clients this way. You've made me out to be a liar and the bad guy. You could have at least been man enough to talk to me on the phone and not in a forum or leaving a vauge voicemail. I understand you won't make this right. I get it. Its a shame it had to come to a forum for you to even respond. VERY UNPROFESSIONAL.

 

[Shadera]

Still waiting for pictures of the dead boa.

How long ago did it die? Did you/do you plan on taking it to the vet to have a necropsy done?

 

[Ed Clark]

I'm curious about the cost of the 2 boas?

Was the snow boa $1700.00 or was that for the 2 boas?

 

[Ed Clark]

Robert, this is the sound an inexperienced boa keeper makes.

I did notify Robert within two weeks that the boa was not eating and he talked me into force feeding wich did not work. I again called Robert, he suggested I invest in a pinkie pump and inject them into his stomach. Which was successfull, but the snake never fed on its own. I called Robert again, and said it was still not eating on his own. So there I was stuck with a snake that wouldn't eat. I tried to do everything Robert guided me to do. No avail. I am new to Buying snakes over the internet,

Robert you knew I was not that experienced with snakes, I confided in him that I was new to this ballgame! He should have never sold me that snake to begin with. A "finicky eater" and a Non Eater are two entirely different things. I've talked to a few other breeders and they've said they NEVER NEVER have had to force feed a boa. I did set an appointment to get him to the vet as soon as he started losing weight, after Robert told me not to. It was just to late.

 

[jayefbe]

Cory, you are not helping your case in any way right now. I'm sorry that you lost your snake but you are coming across as vindictive right now. Just take a deep breath and answer some questions that need to be known.

1) Post pictures of the deceased snake.
2) How long after you received the snake did you contact the breeder?
3) After the breeder offered a refund, did you still remain in contact with the breeder?
4) How long after receiving the snake did you start forcefeeding? How long after that did you start using the pinkie pump?
5) Why, after the snake was in your care for over three months, do you feel that the breeder is responsible?
6) Why do you believe that the snake was unhealthy when it left the breeder's care? Was there any reason to believe that the snake was unhealthy other than the fact that it never ate for you?

 

[Robert Baker]

Final Response

Cory,

I have returned all your messages and emails up to the point my brother was put in the hospital. Even THEN I emailed you to tell you about my situation. My priority was dealing with my brothers accident, it was not ignoring you.

I then come back from sitting in hospital and I get an email to respond to this forum. Thanks Cory ,that is what I needed.


Here is the email I sent Cory....
_________________________________________________________________
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Date: February 3, 2009 5:26:57 AM CST
To: Cory Berensmann <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Unbeleivable NFL skills


Cory,


Hey. I have seen that you have called a few times. Sorry I have been unavailable. Right now is a very bad time. As I type this I am in a hospital sitting next to my brother who is in critical condition from a car wreck. I have not thought about snakes once.


I will take care of you cory but right now this is a lot more important.


Thanks for being understanding.


Later,
Robert

On Jan 27, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Cory Berensmann <[email protected]> wrote:




FAR NORTH BOAS!

_________________________________________________________________


I can understand the fact you are upset. I would be to if I had boa that would not eat once. I am not contesting that at all. However, I gave you a chance to return the boa for a full refund/or credit/or another snow boa. The choice you made was to keep the boa. Now the boa is dead, 129 days later, you have the problem. If the boa was so so bad why did you not return it or attempt 2?

Plus, the way you handled it was probably the most insensitive way possible.
Had you came to me with your problem personally at a time that was more appropriate, I would have treated the situation differently, now it is a matter of principle.

I do not think you are a bad person. I just think you could have handled the situation differently BEFORE the boa died.

Good luck with your boa ventures Cory.

Thanks forum. I am done posting on this issue.

All I wanted was a phone call from ROBERT. He did not have time to call me or email me, yet he has plenty of time to post the Anchorage weather in a forum. I am a very new breeder, still learning. Ok so I bought my first snakes from Robert in 2007. I have the knowledge of feeding, watering heat, humidity...... however, He knows I was not ready for a "non eating" boa,( he honestly NEVER ate) finicky is a HUGE understatement! Robert obviously can't "post" the hours of phone conversations we had where I asked alot of questions about what I was getting into as a breeder. I guess I learned first hand what I was getting into dealing with him. If you weren't ever going to make the situation whole you shouldn't of left me a voicemail stating you would. Im not going to BICKER back and forth anymore. You sold me a unhealthy non eating snake and that is not what you "DISCLOSED" to one of your "favorite clients". Mark my words, you will never get far treating your clients this way. You've made me out to be a liar and the bad guy. You could have at least been man enough to talk to me on the phone and not in a forum or leaving a vauge voicemail. I understand you won't make this right. I get it. Its a shame it had to come to a forum for you to even respond. VERY UNPROFESSIONAL.

 

[ophidile]

All I wanted was a phone call from ROBERT. He did not have time to call me or email me, yet he has plenty of time to post the Anchorage weather in a forum. I am a very new breeder, still learning. Ok so I bought my first snakes from Robert in 2007. I have the knowledge of feeding, watering heat, humidity...... however, He knows I was not ready for a "non eating" boa,( he honestly NEVER ate) finicky is a HUGE understatement! Robert obviously can't "post" the hours of phone conversations we had where I asked alot of questions about what I was getting into as a breeder. I guess I learned first hand what I was getting into dealing with him. If you weren't ever going to make the situation whole you shouldn't of left me a voicemail stating you would. Im not going to BICKER back and forth anymore. You sold me a unhealthy non eating snake and that is not what you "DISCLOSED" to one of your "favorite clients". Mark my words, you will never get far treating your clients this way. You've made me out to be a liar and the bad guy. You could have at least been man enough to talk to me on the phone and not in a forum or leaving a vauge voicemail. I understand you won't make this right. I get it. Its a shame it had to come to a forum for you to even respond. VERY UNPROFESSIONAL.

HOURS of phone convos doesn't sound like Cory was being ignored... makes it sound kinda like he was spoiled by tons of attention and then he decided to post because Robert was busy this week (with his brother, he says, and I see no reason to doubt).
Cory knew BEFORE buying if the boa was "picky" and wanted to give it a go anyway. I have no idea if $1700 is a cheap price for a male snow boa or not (obviously a lot to pay for a DEAD boa - I just don't know if Cory took a risk for a cheaper, pickier boa or not). Anyone help?

 

[Robert Baker]

"Inexperienced" also sounds like defending someone who has yet to produce pictures, or any written evidence of the transaction that would help support their story. Conversation from 3-4 months ago don't hold up too good.

Robert, this is the sound an inexperienced boa keeper makes.

 

[lanceheads]

Here's the bottom line IMO,

Cory was wrong in force-feeding a snake HE knew was a picky eater.

Cory admitted that he was new to this (keeping reptiles).

Cory waited way too long to rectify the situation.

Cory was given the opportunity to ship the snake back, but refused.

The Judge finds Cory at fault, and Robert is totally blameless in this fiasco.

The Judge (me) prays that Cory pays Robert for the other snake.

My decision is FINAL!

LOL!

Judge Randal Berry

 

[Ed Clark]

I agree that without pictures he has no proof of anything here. pictures were requested from him many times.

It will be hard for him to produce any written evidence if most of the talk was on the phone as he stated.

What was the actual price of the snow boa?

"Inexperienced" also sounds like defending someone who has yet to produce pictures, or any written evidence of the transaction that would help support their story. Conversation from 3-4 months ago don't hold up too good.

 

[Nagini]

IMO after reading this, I feel Cory is at fault. the boa was in his care for to long. But I'm really wondering if it is indeed dead since he was supposed to post pics, how long ago? He said he didnt have time at the moment to post them, but had time to make a few snippy remarks that were good sized paragraphs. it takes 5 minutes to upload and post pics

 

[April Homich]

I am a very new breeder, still learning. Ok so I bought my first snakes from Robert in 2007. I have the knowledge of feeding, watering heat, humidity...... however, He knows I was not ready for a "non eating" boa,( he honestly NEVER ate) finicky is a HUGE understatement!

So was 2007 the first time you ever owned snakes, or just from him? Just trying to get an idea of how much experience you have keeping snakes, not just breeding.

I wouldn't expect people that I'm buying animals from to keep track of my experience level and what they should and shouldn't sell me. It was your decision to buy a finicky snake. Another question that was already asked, but I don't think I saw answered yet - what type of prey did you try before resorting to force feeding?

I did notify Robert within two weeks that the boa was not eating and he talked me into force feeding wich did not work. I again called Robert, he suggested I invest in a pinkie pump and inject them into his stomach. Which was successfull, but the snake never fed on its own. I called Robert again, and said it was still not eating on his own. So there I was stuck with a snake that wouldn't eat. I tried to do everything Robert guided me to do. No avail.

Also, I do find it a little odd that the emails from Robert contradict what you are saying he wanted you to do. He sounded pretty insistent that you send the snake back, which you didn't do. You even said that it was time to send the snake back, which he was happy to comply with and you still didn't follow through. I can't really find fault with Robert's actions here. It looks like he was going above and beyond by offering to take the snake back after that much time has passed.

 

[garweft]

I have a lot I want to add. But first Cory needs to post more than just poorly written posts with little to no evidence. We still have not seen pictures. Can you at least provide these?

Seriously. I am almost leaning toward your side, but don't want to jump in just to look like a fool later.

I have very strong feelings about a breeders responsibility starting with delivering healthy, well feeding animals. I'd like to get on my soapbox, but without proof of a dead animal, his reassurance to be there no matter how it turned out, and whatever else you can find, I just can't get behind you.

 

[MiIguanaLvr]

I too have strong feelings about breeders responsibilies when selling their animals but this sure seems like the only thing Robert did was to sell an inexperienced person a picky eater.
I have a ball python rescue animal that is a picky eater too and so I know what a pain in the neck this can be.

I am just saying that even if the buyer didnt realize what a problem this picky eater could turn out to be, the seller should have known and maybe should have passed on this particular buyer for that particular snake. In the hands of an experienced person, this snake could well still be alive.

As far as everything else the breeder did, it sounds like he did plenty to try to make it right, including asking for the animal back. If the buyer opted not to send the snake back, that tends to look bad for him more than it does the seller, IMHO

 

[Cat_72]

In the hands of an experienced person, this snake could well still be alive.

Beth,

While I agree with most everything you said, I have to comment on this part - without any pictures of the dead snake, or any kind of proof whatsoever ever having been provided to ANYONE that the sanke is dead - it could well still be alive, period.