• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Warning Points System Mod

Status
Not open for further replies.
Leader or Provider

varnyard said:
So we follow a leader that does not want to lead? We keep going like we are now, in hopes that he will care again? :rolleyes: It all sounds great, but the underlying truth is never hidden. The hard facts still remain and show big time here. IMO, ignoring it is not going to make it go away.

I think Rich is a 'Provider' in the case of Fauna in its current manifestation. Trying to be a leader wore him out with all the drama and hassle that it can be in this context. Now he provides a place for knowledge, comaraderie, etc. to happen.

In some ways under this style of management we get a taste of some of the items he had to deal with in the past. I actually like it, in no way with less involvement by Rich does the site go to ground. As seen in this case, the right thing still happens just with the sire mebers having more say and means to make the call.

I see Rich as a manager, not a leader when it comes to Fauna now. Its up to us to lead more and follow less.
 
I just don't get it when people state that the site is going to Hell, because Rich doesn't "care anymore."

The same stuff basically happens, and is basically met with the same result. What's the big deal?
 
I've been without internet for the last couple of days.

My oh my oh my.

First off let me begin with a snippet of song that I hope will cheer all of you up.

Ding dong the witch is dead, the witch is dead the wicked witch is dead, ding dong the witch is dead.

Let me then move right on to this; Bobby, this site needs guys like you who stand up for what's right, who stand up for what they think to the point of overdoing it, who, once it's overdone and proven, step back and say, "oops, sorry about that." It's better with you than without you.

Shrap, dude, words won't cover the feelings, as good as I am with them, but I think you get the vibe.

This site is still in it's infancy. Even though the King has gone on vaction, we do have a king and a few ministers who seem to be coming into thier own. I suspect the King will return once he sees that there is some value to the kingdom beyond that of mere entertainment. In order for that value to become evident to our jaded King we, the populace at large and in general, must hold together and target what WE want this site to be.

If you don't want manipulative bitches twisting facts and minds SPEAK THE HELL UP AND SAY SO, don't just let it go. If you want this to be something other than an entertainment center, do something about it. If you just want to sit and bitch, be prepared to have someone question you about your motives. It might be me, it might be someone nice, you rolls the dice and you takes your chances.

I can't speak for Rich but I can speak for what I've learned of human nature. I can speak of the many buttons I've pushed here and the reactions those pushes have induced.

MOST of the people on this site want it to be a place for good folks to gather. They want a place that DOES set some limits on who is allowed and what happens when one of the previously good falls below the standard set by the membership, be that standard spoken or only roughly agreed to. Most of the members want the bad guys to be called out and taken to task whether they, the general members, do it or not. Many of the general members do not want to do that in public, many simply can't, but, and this IS key, the support it being done.

We've seen it come full circle and then some over the last few years and STILL this site is just a kid in all relative terms. Most of the staff are just now figuring out just what the membership at large REALLY wants from them. Rich is in the same boat, though at present he is napping below decks, and will soon come up to see how the wind has shifted THIS time and whether it blows fair or fowl. How it blows is up to US, the general members and what WE let those Ministers and thier assistants know.

Dennis and Ken and Jay and come LEAPS and BOUNDS in their ability to see and do in the last year or so but are still in unfamiliar waters because they never had INPUT from any but a select few. NOW, with all the little mods, and the more outspoken of the rest of us, there is enough knowledge and backing to take a stand and try to make changes.

THIS, this pruning of the tree, is one important step. There are some who simply don't belong and there is NO reason to let them sup with us. NONE. It's not easy to be the guys who say, "hit the road, you're not welcome here," as a rule, but even when unpleasant, it must be done. Just as it must be said to some, whether in public or private, "thank you for your help."

Recently this has been being done.

THIS is a turning point, a cust if you will, and what WE do from here will effect Fauna for the next bit of while.

WE make it what WE want it to be by listening and speaking and NOT by having personal agendas.

Ahhhh, I hear many of you now, "you're a fine one to talk Wes, what about you and (pick a name as there are many) and your personal vendettas, what of them?" All I can say is this, which I have said before, it's not so much personal vendatta as it is cleaning up the mess, keeping the sandbox clean, taking out the trash. Out of sight is generally out of mind for me, believe me or no and so I DO feel qualified to speak on this as one who is intimately familiar with the ins and outs of personal vs. non-personal interactions.

It's not WHO I go after, not in the big picture, but WHAT they represent. Not the person so much as the action and if you look back at my history, this does become evident over TIME. If you just look at one or two persons, take neil ''the liar'' gubitz or Jay, if you JUST look at my interaction with them, then sure, it seems ONLY personal, but IF you look at the loooooong list of folks I've spoken unfavorably of, you will see that it is more what they represent than who they are. And for the record, I didn't call Jay, as I have been wont to do so frequently in the past, owens, because, as far as I am able to discern to date, he has changed his method of late. It's not so personal as it was professional and I mention this in depth only to bring home my point; ASSumptions are just that.

Some are ASSuming that the King won't be back, that things will go to shit and there is naught we can do. To that I say HA and HA again. It's being done right now. It may well need refining, in fact I can almost guarentee it will, BUT, finally, it is begun. There is talk of what is needed, how to gain what is needed, how to maintain what is needed, what the cost of such needs and their maintainence will be and whether or not THAT is good or ill.

Things are changing, eyes are opening. Soon baby steps will be taken, and who knows, perhaps even some races run soon.

Stay Bobby. Voice your opinion. Same for the rest of you. It's a group dynamic that cannot be maintained by any less than what has occured, so many coming together and voicing opinions and taking stands and CONTRIBUTING personally.

It's going to be interesting to see what kind of flower comes out of this pile. Could be quite a beauty. Likely to bear some hellashish claws too; mores the better for that I say.

Anyway, that's what I think, that's my contribution, my personal gift to this site and I hope, sincerely, that by doing so, good will come to the members and users of Fauna, even to that guy who is, really, just another cornsnake breeder who happens to be the King.
 
romad119 said:
I think Rich is a 'Provider' in the case of Fauna in its current manifestation. Trying to be a leader wore him out with all the drama and hassle that it can be in this context. Now he provides a place for knowledge, comaraderie, etc. to happen.

In some ways under this style of management we get a taste of some of the items he had to deal with in the past. I actually like it, in no way with less involvement by Rich does the site go to ground. As seen in this case, the right thing still happens just with the sire mebers having more say and means to make the call.

I see Rich as a manager, not a leader when it comes to Fauna now. Its up to us to lead more and follow less.


I agree, and to use Bobby's terms I dont see Rich as the heart, Brain maybe, but I view the heart of Fauna to be the members who sit and contribute. Who make the site what it is. There are 35,000 members here, with that many you going to get some crazy things. And Rich cant fight all the battles, he is giving people the option to help.

Bobby, Rich opened the concept of the paid Mods. You knew that anyone could do it, and you still made your choice. I agree with Jay the fact that Lucille has this punishment is proof that the system is working. Someone who you consider to be bad has now been fined and suspended. She was also warned previous to that, as were others who posted were given warnings. So you may not like who, but you cant fault its effectiveness.
 
Dragondad said:
Bobby, Rich opened the concept of the paid Mods. You knew that anyone could do it, and you still made your choice.

No Michael, I was a mod before the pay to play was introduced. So, I had no choice in that matter at all, there are only a few of the original forum mods left, the rest added themselves by the pay to play method.
 
Wilomn said:
Ding dong the witch is dead, the witch is dead the wicked witch is dead, ding dong the witch is dead.

LOL. I posted the same thing in chat. Thanks to Doc 'Dorothy of Kansas' Owens. We need a smilie showing a melting witch.

I was leery of the pay-to-play mod bit but everything averages out and I believe the people wanting to make Fauna a positive place will always out number the ones trying to make it a negative place. I think thats what happened here.

I have people I clash with (Wes and others) BUT I respect them. Lucille was just someone that made my skin crawl and gave me that slimy feeling. So excuse me if I do a childish jig around the computer. :dancer01:

Ok, I am back to normal.
 
Bobby, I paid before I knew I could play, just for the record :)
My giving was for entirely different reasons and the continued to go up more was for other reasons then playing. Really keep up the good work, it takes a lot to keep the "heart" ticking and healthy, it really is all about working together.
I do not believe for one minute Rich as given up. He has taken a rest and has begun to trust others to help him out. I have respected him, but I can't think of a time that I have respected him more then I do now.
It had to have taken a lot to turn his baby over some for others to pitch in and help.

Jay, kudos to you, couldn't give any more karma for the day or it would have went you way as well.
 
varnyard said:
No Michael, I was a mod before the pay to play was introduced. So, I had no choice in that matter at all, there are only a few of the original forum mods left, the rest added themselves by the pay to play method.

And at the intro you volunteered to pay right then,,,I thought that you had paid because you believed in the duty and believed in fauna. Lord knows I didnt like Lucille, and had something to say when she bought her way up. But I still say despite some questionable people, the overall basis of the mods now is good. And they system is working......... :shrug01:
 
Dennis Hultman, John Apple, Stardust, Pug, Junkyard, Tim Cole, AncientDNA, hhmoore, DAND, epidemic, ravensgait, TripleMoonsExotic, Clay Davenport, Bob Kite and myself are all original forum mods. And the super mods as well, Dr Owens, Ken Harbart and DThomas, the rest all added themselves under the pay to play method.

As for Lucille, that needed to be done a long time ago. IMO, too many good members have been run off by her and her actions. Anyone care to ask Wes why Lucille hates him so? I think you would be amazed as I was to learn the truth on that one.

I will leave that up to Wes to tell, but as the base of her hate, she had nothing even close to a good reason for her attack on him either.
 
varnyard said:
Dennis Hultman, John Apple, Stardust, Pug, Junkyard, Tim Cole, AncientDNA, hhmoore, DAND, epidemic, ravensgait, TripleMoonsExotic, Clay Davenport, Bob Kite and myself are all original forum mods. And the super mods as well, Dr Owens, Ken Harbart and DThomas, the rest all added themselves under the pay to play method.

As for Lucille, that needed to be done a long time ago. IMO, too many good members have been run off by her and her actions. Anyone care to ask Wes why Lucille hates him so? I think you would be amazed as I was to learn the truth on that one.

I will leave that up to Wes to tell, but as the base of her hate, she had nothing even close to a good reason for her attack on him either.

haha Bobby, man do I know that answer and many more :rofl: :rofl:
 
Gee go away for a couple days and the the stuff that falls out the south end of a north bound Bull hits the fan.

Wes I couldn't agree more... I think people like Lucille think that having only a few complain about them means that the rest must agree or just don't care one way or the other.

Sammy I must have missed that, you have my condolences..

Bobby hang in there buddy!!!! Randy
 
Since this was drudged up again I know a few of you are wondering.... I lost my first child in 1990 when I was 21 years old due to complications during birth. I was barely more than a kid myself at the time. So this is not something that has happened recently. But all of the condolences from everyone are appreciated just the same.

I shared this with Kelli when she started a thread wanting to know if anyone else had gone through losing a child. I just wanted to help Kelli at a time she was really struggling with her own loss and let her know that it does get better.

In retrospect, I should have talked with Kelli via PM, email or phone. It never occurred to me at the time that it would be used repeatedly by anyone in such a tactless manner. It was never about me. I dont know where Lucille came from with all that garbage. It just plain and simple never happened that way.
 
Task at Hand

Religion, child loss, an personal vendettas are what we are coming to? Come on. In the words of that great Californian, "Can't we all just get along?"

This group is the "Brady Bunch of the Herp world." We are all married into it because of a common interest. Like Bobby and Cindy, disagreements and fights will occur but they always made up by the end of the half hour. Dragging up old issues and personal vendettas only causes more harm than good. Life is hard enough to deal with, without each of us reminding the others about the pains that exist in their lives. The purpose hers is to make a better product. How is any of this helping? We have knowledgeable people leaving because of others voicing inconsequential insecurities. Moderators, unpaid moderators, coins, pay before you play: all these comments are not helping us achieve our goal. If you look back about 250 posts ago I was in the middle of this to prove a point. I was trying to prove some inconsistancies in the moderating process. I must say I got frustrated and did not participate until now. It seems we have degressed instead of progressed. Wes's post says it all. We are trying to make a better place and we cannot afford to lose good members because of others who make a bad choice of their words. Rich has not quit or he wouldn't continue to post as he does. He does care but like most leaders it requires a huge amount of energy to do so. He has turned the reigns over to everyone of us. We drive this site by our actions and comments. If we want to drive it into the sewer we will continus if we keep following this path we have lately. Think about it we are rejoicing over a member being banned. ( I am not saying either way if it is good or bad). This is not proactive. We need to grab the bull by the horns and stop "belly bucking" (ouch) and get back to making this a place people want to come to learn about the reptile world. If we can do this the KING will notice and allow this site to flourish. This is our goal isn't it???


OK my 2 minute commercial is over. Back to the action of tearing each other apart and pointing out our misgivings and faults.

PS. By the way ED Clark you never did answer Wes's question. Being a guy that produces quality snakes I would have thought a little more about your actions in this thread. I held you in pretty high esteem until that point.
 
Kevin, when a boil is lanced joy is the proper responce. To MANY of us a boil was indeed lanced when Jay banned lucille.

One of the main problems with this site, as far as I am concerned, is the letting of cancurs and boils fester so long after they've been identified. There was no doubt in this case. There has been no doubt in other cases. Cut them and heal or leave them and have infection spread.

Another thing about lancing those boils is, if you're wrong, you slap on a bandaid and move on. With the rare exception, which would be me several times over LOL, bannings are well warranted. Too often of late they have simply been too long in coming. I suspect that is now going to be addressed by staff in a much more timely manner. I hope it will anyway.

As far as ed goes, his lack of answers are answer enough.
 
Mmmmmm, nothing quite like infected festering boils with my morning coffee. :D
 
I just can't give out enough karma to many of you.

I've taken a little bit of a powder from the site during my move. In the midst of it all, my membership expired and I shrugged it off. The posts I read today hit home. If I want this to be a great site, I can't sit on the sidelines and expect everyone else to make it one. I need to get back in front, or shut up. :)

Thanks to all of you who make Fauna what it is.
 
Wilomn said:
Kevin, when a boil is lanced joy is the proper responce. To MANY of us a boil was indeed lanced when Jay banned lucille.

One of the main problems with this site, as far as I am concerned, is the letting of cancurs and boils fester so long after they've been identified. There was no doubt in this case. There has been no doubt in other cases. Cut them and heal or leave them and have infection spread.

Another thing about lancing those boils is, if you're wrong, you slap on a bandaid and move on. With the rare exception, which would be me several times over LOL, bannings are well warranted. Too often of late they have simply been too long in coming. I suspect that is now going to be addressed by staff in a much more timely manner. I hope it will anyway.

You all need to be careful about what you wish for. What do you do if everyone appears to be a boil to someone else?

If you all will recall, this site was pretty hardlined for a while. It only took a minor raised area on the skin to be considered as a "boil". Not many people liked it that way, yet each had their own ideas about how it should be changed. In most cases, it was in such a way that they would not be considered a boil, but nearly everyone else would be.

It doesn't work that way. Not only is it impossible to implement, but you cannot ask for someone else's freedom to be restricted without your own freedom being restricted as well. So be extremely careful about what you say you THINK you want out of this site. You may get what you say you want, but it may not be what you REALLY want.
 
WebSlave said:
You all need to be careful about what you wish for. What do you do if everyone appears to be a boil to someone else?

If you all will recall, this site was pretty hardlined for a while. It only took a minor raised area on the skin to be considered as a "boil". Not many people liked it that way, yet each had their own ideas about how it should be changed. In most cases, it was in such a way that they would not be considered a boil, but nearly everyone else would be.

It doesn't work that way. Not only is it impossible to implement, but you cannot ask for someone else's freedom to be restricted without your own freedom being restricted as well. So be extremely careful about what you say you THINK you want out of this site. You may get what you say you want, but it may not be what you REALLY want.
What I think I want, just me, is that if 9 of 10 say a thing should be a certain way, and there is ample proof that those 9 of 10 are not just ganging up on someone, then there should be serious consideration given to the implementation of what the majority wants. Should that majority later change it's mind and reverse course, then THAT should be given serious consideration.

In order for that to be effective though, there must be a leader, or group responsible to said leader, to undertake the implimentation of the group will.

Heck Rich, if you don't want to proclimate just put it to a vote subject to future votes. If you stick to a 90% margin you'll be hardpressed to find anyone unduly picked on. Almost everyone has at least one fan. Of course, if you've pissed off 18 other members you're screwed, but thems the breaks.

We had shrilly in at least 2 different incarnations and that other idiot sludgehumper and a few others that simply should not have been given the chances they were. In MY opinion. I suspect I am not alone in that opinion. There are guys like northrop, just WHAT does he contribute here? Why is he here? There are others, the trash, that need to be taken out. That's not to say they can't come back, when they can get that 9 out of 10 to say Welcome.

I KNOW what I'm asking for. It COULD be my head on the chopping block, but I really don't think so. I know what I think, I've said what I thought, and now, finally, you've got a team, or the beginnings of one, who can do what is best for this SITE without regard to who's toes get stepped on. But, you have to LET them do it, not make excuses for them not to.

lucille has lied and manipulated and just been a drag on this site for too long and I say we are better off with her GONE FOREVER. She's an unlanced boil festering away.

I vote gone for good.

If you want to put me up there with her, go right ahead. But do what is right and what your members want and, more importantly, what YOU know is right. If you want to clean the place up, get rid of the lying backstabbers first.

And no, I don't hate her. I don't hate anyone from here. That takes too much effort and too much time. I despise a few and completely dislike some others, but hate is far too strong to describe my feelings.

I just think we'd be better off without the ones like lucille.
 
Wilomn said:
I vote gone for good.

Listen...

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you.

I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.

Wes, you should review the warning points on your buddy Chamco's account name and take a minute to check the linked threads. While it's obvious that being a passive agressive manipulator isn't currently the popular option it doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to be as thick as a brick sandwhich when it comes to taking a hint or reading subtext. Some people can dig their own holes just fine and then nobody has to argue over use of the shovel.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top