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WATCH OUT FOR SHADIGUY 1 !

Quite frankly, because he has been so hesitant to answer an obvious question, I would view his answer as suspect even if he did now come back and say he shipped other than USPS.

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
 
Okay guys, I didn't answer the question to see how many people would simply asume that I sent the snake illegally.  But the truth is it went to him UPS, which I know there are alot of arguments about venomoids, but the bottom line in my decision to do this is because there was no life threatening danger in doing it.  The fact is the courier would NOT BE DEAD OR MAIMED because of a bite from the snake, no more that he would from a cornsnake bite.  Haven't you kind of noticed that I have been actively participating in this discussion with nothing to hide, and have you also noticed that shadiguy is nowhere to be found and left this discussion after the first page? So I guess "the real shady" already stood up and made a run for it(Sorry, just a little humor on my part).  Anyways, there don't we all feel better(probably not) that I didn't ship USPS???
Thanks,
Kevin Smith <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
 
It's like Neil said, if the shipper inspects the package, which they all reserve the right to do so on the airbill forms, and someone gets bit and either is hospitalized or dies, you would be looking at negligent homicide or worse. Best case scenario would be they prosecute you for not properly disclosing contents that are potentially dangerous (again, a section right on the airbill). Evan Stahl
 
I DO feel slightly better that you chose to ship through UPS instead of USPS.  However, the only legal way to ship venomous in my knowledge is through the airlines.  And the risk is still there for the UPS box handler as it is for a postal package handler.  I still personally think that a venomoid would qualify as a venomous snake because technically, it still IS one.  But that end of the debate doesn't belong here I suppose.  
Kevin, thank you for your answer, though why you waited I cannot fully understand.  Was your intent to just play mind games and get people to THINK that you sent a potentially dangerous rattler through the mail and then with your explanation everyone will go, "wow, instead of shipping that deadly snake through the mail, he sent it through UPS instead.  What a good guy."?  I guess I just don't understand the motivation for waiting as opposed to just directly answering the question.
 
Just to add my two cents to the mix..... as I understand it, it is illegal to ship snakes through USPS, just as all of you have said. It has also been said (several times I think) that it is against company policy (FedEx, UPS, Airborne Espress, etc.) to ship snakes (and other animals, with few exceptions), but some of these companies will make exceptions, and they will willingly and knowingly accept snakes as cargo.

I am in negotiations with one of those carrier's legal department, at this very time, to see if in fact they will accept venomous snakes, IF I provide IATA approved containers for the animals, and if I ship in strict compliance with the IATA regulations. So far, the reply has been, "we're not sure" instead of "NO!" because I have taken the time to ASK them in a polite and professional way. I will be updating the thread, should I get any new developments, but as it stands, if I release the carrier of any legal responsibility, they are willing to accept live harmless reptiles, including snakes, from me anytime I want to set up an account. We're still talking about the venomous ones.

I COMPLETELY agree that a venomoid, despite my displeasure at even typing the word, would be cause for a person to be prosecuted for shipping illegally, (reptiles aren't hazardous materials, as far as I know) in light of the fact that someone might easily have a heart attack if a carton were to become damaged and the snake escaped..... Law enforcement will not be interested in milking said snake to see if it's hot or not.....

Bottom line is we better clean up our act or there won't be anyone willing to pick up a parcel anywhere in the country without a criminal background check on the shipper first.....
 
Okay, lets face the facts of the matter,  a person could have a "heart attack" from opening a box and seeing a rattlesnake(hot or Venomoid), BUT, they are just as likely to be freaked seeing a corn,king, OR ESPECIALLY A TRICOLORED MILKSNAKE which they would probably mistake for a coral.  It is also a fact that most of them would not even be in the same room with a box if they knew there was a live snake in it.  I really don't think the venomoid/ hot or not  debate should even begin, because there will never be an agreement and it would just go in circles.  I personally don't think it really matters, as I am just as cautious around a retic as I am a hot rattler, they are both dangerous and can both cause death. But that is another debate all it's own.
Thanks,
Kevin Smith <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
 
Kevin,

I also feel a relief knowing you did not ship USPS. However, I agree with Rob's statement.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And the risk is still there for the UPS box handler as it is for a postal package handler.  I still personally think that a venomoid would qualify as a venomous snake because technically, it still IS one.  </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

But I guess that as you say it might be a matter of debate for most of us (although maybe not for a lawyer).
 
The only risk with a venomoid is the fact that it appears venomous.  The fact is that THEY WON'T DIE IF BITTEN,  and with a HOT snake, they WILL.  That is what I am trying to say.  The bottom line is that although under the law a venomoid may be considered a venomous snake, but in reality, it is no more dangerous than a cornsnake.
Just my thought on the wholething.
Thanks,
Kevin Smith <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
 
Kevin,

Thanks for answering the question finally.  I know that Shadiguy says otherwise, so I guess we'll really never know.  I must say that your credibility would have been much higher with me (not that you care, I'm sure) if you had simply come forward with the requested information in a prompt fashion.

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
 
I was going to post a scanned copy of the shipping reciept, but the computer only keeps the records for a couple of days.  I will try and find the reciept I have, but I am not sure if I have it somewhere or not.
Thanks,
Kevin Smith
 
Kevin,

Just to help you out here. If you call UPS and give them the date it was shipped, the original address, and the destination address, they should provide you with a tracking #. That one usually stays in their system for several months.

Good luck!
 
he also shippen a hot snake i got his fake paperwork as well i dont know hpow to post images on this site but i will email it to anyone interested in it.
 
Espedito,

I would be interested in seeing copies of the papers and any shipping receipts or labels proving that Kevin indeed shipped the canebrake through the USPS.  You can e-mail me at [email protected].  
And just another point that has bugged me throughout this discussion...
Espedito claims that the snake is still hot.  IF this is true, you did not send a harmless venomoid as you claim.  You shipped a HOT snake.  
However, I am not totally sure which party I believe over the other in this situation as both of you seem to be willing to ship venomous snakes in unorthodox and illegal ways.  But that is just my opinion.  
Espedito, I look forward to seeing whatever paperwork you might have and if I can I will attempt to post it here for you.
 
Man, shady, you will go to no end to prove you are truly a liar!  If I shipped to you USPS, then post a picture of the airbill.  PLEASE DO SO, I REALLY, REALLY WANT TO SEE IT.  I NEVER shipped to you via uspostal.  IF YOU ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH, why have you not commented until now??? Why didn't you deny sending hot puff adders through the uspostal service? If you admitt to that, then why would you put a postal worker's life on the line to do so? What excuse can you come up with for that one? I am pretty sure everyone that has posted on this entire thread would like to know.   IF that canebrake is hot, then you are truly a maraculous person, you have replaced the glands and ducts by purely thinking about it, ALL HAIL SHADIGUY!  My only question is, DID YOU MILK IT?? OR ARE YOU JUST SPEAKING LIES AGAIN? I know the answer to those questions, but let's see if everyone else can figure it out.  Which should be very easy to figure out once you post the USPS tracking number originating from my residence and sent to you, but man, how can you do that? Oh yeah, you can make things true by simply lying about them! Okay, let the slander roll!!!
Kevin Smith
 
as far as the thing goes i do not still have the box it was a month ago but i do have yor fake venomoid paperwork.
 
i appologise for my iggnorance in the matter i  used bad judgment and was rather new to shipping and i wont deny it. i have since applied for a delta account an i am sorry and trhow myself at everyones mercy but everything else is truth. Kevin sent me a hot snake. Kevin Shiped Usps. Express Mail. i am sending people copies of his fake Paperwork as well worst paperwork i have ever seen lol
 
The worst paperwork you have ever seen??? Well, How much paperwork have you seen? I am really curious because you "DON't Have paperwork for your alledged,het for albinos", you don't know how to check to see if a snake is a venomoid, and I highly doubt if you have the capacity for much thought in general.  Oh yeah,  YOU NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION:

DID YOU MILK THE SNAKE? DID YOU MILK THE SNAKE?

Sorry, I had to repeat the question, because you seem to ignore it.
Kevin Smith <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
 
Espedito.... the only thing that flabbergasts me, is your USERID!! Shadiguy??? Do you REALLY think that someone who doesn't know you, would do business with someone who considers himslf "shady"<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> It's like if someone wanted to open a used car dealership and called it "Lemons Are Us"! Would YOU buy from him??? All I can say is.... Good luck!
....Neil
 
nah sorry i dont need to milk the snake the thing is hot. i have Several other Venomoids From People That are legitimate, Snakecharmer, Richard Ritchie..  and have legit paper and actual photos with the snake proving Venomoid and proving live test with rodents. yours applied live test held with tonds to rear quarter mouse dies.. mouse just thrown in MOUSE DIES.. Dont need to milk the bit speaks for itself.
 
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