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WATCH OUT FOR SHADIGUY 1 !

Chance,

You wrote, "however for those of you saying that ANYONE shipping ANY snake, no matter what kind, through a ground carrier should be prosecuted..."

I don't think any of us said anything like that.  It is illegal to ship snakes via USPS, but it is only a violation of stated company policy to ship them via UPS, FedEx, or Airborne Express, and many, many or the hubs for those companies have managers that openly take snakes anyway.  No laws are being broken so long as animals are legally shipped through these latter carriers, even though "official company policy" is being violated with (in many instances) the full knowledge of the carriers' managers and employees.

There is no double standard here.  These two guys are here-to-fore unconvicted felons-to-be.  They have violated the law and made us all look bad by their unwillingness to adhere to even the most basic of herp community norms when it comes to shipping and handling of hot snakes.  If they had shipped these animals via Delta, they would likely still be slamming each other (because of the other issues between them), but they wouldn't be looking over their shoulders for the feds right now!

<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

By the way, you might want to add your full name to your posts so as not to have them deleted.
 
Not to add fuel to the fire but I think sending this thread to the authorities would be a huge mistake. Doing so would only give the officials more of an incentive to monitor boards such as this.
As said before, Shipping ANY snake through USPS is a Federal offense and I can assure you that while the penalty may not be as severe for those shipping nonvenomous as it would be for venomous you would have serious trouble on your hands nonetheless.
I would like to add that I do not condone the actions of these to fellows but understand that by submitting this information to the authorities your actions may have very dire consequences for many others on this board.

Thanks for listening
Jackie Lapradd
 
Although my first reaction was similar to that of Rob, I would have to agree with Jackie's post. The reptile trade is already taking enough heat to add more fuel to the fire. So far we can only hope that the viewpoints expressed will have these two individuals re-think about their shipping practices. As much as I would like to have this thread here for everyone to see, should it remain as is...?

Regards, <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
 
I think this is a very good thread and a very good discussion.  I did not mention how I shipped and it really doesn't matter.  This is still a very good discussion that I have never seen this topic discussed in this magnatude on any other forum.  I think by talking about shipping snakes usps, we are going to open a whole new can o' worms.   I have recieved several snakes via the usps, although, I am not going to give names and I don't expect anyone else to admit to the same, I think this is a very good discussion.  They do ship turtles,lizards,rodents,birds, and bugs, so I don't see what the big deal is about a harmless snake(if it IS harmless).  ONCE AGAIN, AND I AM MAKING THIS STATEMENT LOUD AND CLEAR, I DID NOT SAY I SHIPPED USPS, AND I AM IN NO WAY CONDONING SUCH ACTION, BUT AM SIMPLY STATING MY OPINION ON THE SUBJECT.  I don't feel that someone that ships a harmless snake should be celled next to someone caught sending anthrax or C-4, but I would understand if they got in trouble for breaking the rules.
JUST MY OPINION, THANKS FOR READING,
Kevin Smith <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> I have recieved several snakes via the usps</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Maybe only from someone who did not know any better


PRIVATE COMPANIES
Airborne Express
UPS - United Parcel Service
Fed ex

Shipping snakes is against company Policy NOT against the Law.



Government Entity
USPS - United States Postal Service

Shipping snakes is ILLEGAL - and if caught can mean PRISON.
Illegal means against the law.
 
Okay 5 pages now, and noone's said it yet... (granted, I only skimmed...) But "shadiguy"??  C'mon! If you're serious about doing business, why on earth would you go about using a nickname like that??   DUH!!  
Seriously - I'd sooner take the loss than bother trying to deal with someone who goes by 'shadiguy' or something similar.
You make your own bed, you know....
Good luck,
Liz
(Elizabeth Craig)
 
Kevin, Kevin, Kevin . . .

"I did not mention how I shipped and it really doesn't matter."

You're right, man.  You didn't say anything about how you shipped!

"ONCE AGAIN, AND I AM MAKING THIS STATEMENT LOUD AND CLEAR, I DID NOT SAY I SHIPPED USPS"

OK, then . . .Loud and clear for us all, now: Did you ship that snake via USPS or not?!?!?  You didn't say you did, but then again, you didn't say you didn't either.  You just didn't say at all.  This is the third time that I have directly asked you to say how you DID ship that snake, and others have asked about it too, if I'm not mistaken.

Kevin, will you now answer the question at hand?  Forget all your sophistry, forget all the ducking and diving, just answer one question.  Yes, or No: Did you ship that canebrake rattle snake via USPS?

Just clear this up, and we'll move on here.  I'm looking forward to your response.
 
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>I think by talking about shipping snakes usps, we are going to open a whole new can o' worms.</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

So your goal is to open a can of worms on an industry that is already being looked under a magnifying glass by certain radical groups?

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>I don't feel that someone that ships a harmless snake should be celled next to someone caught sending anthrax or C-4, but I would understand if they got in trouble for breaking the rules.</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

No, they are not going to get spanked because they are breaking rules they might spend time in jail because they are comitting a felony

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>This is still a very good discussion that I have never seen this topic discussed in this magnatude on any other forum. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

I don't see this as a very good discussion. If at this point you haven't figured out the difference between a company's rules and regulations and a federal offense...Good luck!
 
I was not saying that any person shipping a harmless nonvenomous snake is similar to someone shipping C4.  I was saying that someone shipping a dangerous VENOMOUS snake is placed in a similar category in my opinion.  They are making a very dangerous and potentially deadly situation for those people that are handling those packages.  And regardless, either way it is a FEDERAL OFFENSE to ship a snake through the mail, PERIOD.  

And yes, I am usually not the first to jump in and say "let's go tell the law" when it comes to small infractions regarding the law, but this situation has put people people into a potentially dangerous situation without their knowledge(I highly doubt the snakes were sent in a wooden crate labeled VENOMOUS SNAKES through the USPS) as well as violated FEDERAL LAW.
 
Rob,

I AM IN TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH YOU! That was the point I was trying to make.  I do disagree with whomever says this is not a good discussion, I believe it is.   I am not saying that I would like to see every person that has shipped a snake through the mail illegally, that would be very bad for all of us in this hobby.  If you break the law, then I believe that is your own demon that you have to live with whether you get caught or not. But putting an innocent person's life on the line to save on shipping IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT in my opinion.  That is beyond governmental laws, there are much higher laws to answer to if you do something like that. We can all go round and round on this, but that is the bottom line.  NO ONE SHOULD HAVE THEIR LIFE ON THE LINE WITHOUT FIRST MAKING THE DECISION FOR THEMSELF!
JUST MY OPINION
Thanks,
Kevin <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
 
My 2 cents. After shipping reptiles for 12 years now, I have found that even the private companies such as UPS, FedEx, Airbourne, etc., do not even regulations against handling animals. They have unwritten regional policies. In my region I can't ship with UPS but FedEx knows what I am shipping and happily lets me ship 100-200 packages a year. Evan Stahl
 
Even though it is ILLEGAL to ship ANY snake through USPS.... to have the COJONES to ship a VENEMOUS snake through USPS is INSANE! Suppose.... the package gets damaged somehow, the post office clerk decides to open the package to make sure everything is OK.... the clerk gets bit! Can you say,  MANSLAUGHTER!!<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>
Whomever would ship a venemous snake through USPS, should be thrown in the bag WITH the snake!
That's not TOO radical, is it??
....Neil
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We can all go round and round on this, but that is the bottom line.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Kevin,

So far we have agreed that it was completely irresponsible for Espedito to send puff adders though USPS. It could have been a potential disaster, etc. Maybe after reading the opinions on the matter he knows better now (maybe not).

This will stop going around and around if you just answer Darin's simple question. Did you or did you not send a venomoid through USPS?

Regards
 
Umm, just curious, but why was it that my posts were deleted? I thought I had some pretty good questions that involved the subject of this thread.....so why did they get deleted? Sorry if I offended anyone.
 
C hance- they were deleted because you didn't post using your full name. The easiest way to make sure your full name is included in every post/reply is to have it as your signature line. You can do this by clicking on the "Your control panel" link just under the banner ad at the top of the page, and going from there.
 
Oh, ok. I guess I overlooked that part as I don't post on this site all that often. Well, I'm going to go ahead and re-ask my second question then. So, the point has been made that violating the rules of USPS is indeed against the law as it is a federal entity. However, what about shipping hot snakes through private companies like UPS and FedEx and such? Is that still just breaking a companies rules, or is that also breaking the law? Please explain your answer on that one. I've been told that shipping any venomous snakes through those companies is illegal, but the way it sounds on here it is only breaking some companies rules.
-Chance Duncan
 
Chance,

First off you would have to declare what it is that you are shipping (common name and species). Now if you go to the UPS or Airborne Express counter and tell them you want to ship a package labeled "handle with care, live rattlesnake inside" (crotalus, etc.), you are going back to your place with your package. First off although in some states and areas these companies knowingly ship live snakes, they will not mess around with that shipment. Now if you don't label or mislabel the content, there is another thread in the discussion section about how this constitutes a violation of the Lacey Act (LAW&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>.

Regards,
 
Chance, to my understanding the ONLY legal way to ship venomous reptiles is through the airlines(Delta Dash, United, etc.).

However, Kevin, I am glad that you agree with me, but you still have not answered the question put forth to you.  Did you or did you not ship the "venomoid" Canebrake Rattlesnake through the USPS?
 
I think it is pretty obvious by his not answering the question, he has in fact answered the question.  I believe he is afraid now to answer that he did in fact ship the Canebrake via the USPS as well.
 
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