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what do you do when you take 2 babies in that are underweight and die

There's not enough information to say the animals were misrepresented. Ball pythons in particular can feed for one person and then, after minor changes in the environment, stop feeding for another. If I interpret everything right you thought that because all communication ceased this person had right off the deal. If he never said that upfront you should have inquired about it. You never paid for the animals, that's enough reason for making all efforts to contact the seller to make sure how you were going to resolve the issue. You state he had your contact information; that's not enough, you had his animals (until they died). On the other hand I don't understand why he let all that time go by without even attempting to contact you. Now there's one other issue that comes into play and it's the price of the YB. If he sells you one at current prices the seller will definitively be at a loss as prices have dropped from 2006 to now. You can get excellent YB males for $150 (an less) with females going a little higher. One way or the other it would be important to hear his side of the story. The thing that is still unclear at least for me is why he didn't make contact at all during all this time.

Thanks
 
dan he knew the snakes were going bad. he knew that they were dropping weight. then he knew the one had died. that is when we agreed to send the other back, but she died (quickly) before i ever heard from him agian. the last email i got from him he stated to send the female back and asked me to pay for half of the dead one. the last time i emailed him i mentioned the second one had passed before she could be shipped (he stated to me today that he never got this email). at this point in time i left my roadrunner on for an aditional 2 months while i switched to fiber optic internet from verizon. i have been in the same place for 8 years. he had my address, phone, old and new email by advertisement. and waited until christmas a year and a half later to contact me about it.
it is correct that i did not reply to his demand for half of the animals cost. i still feel that it was a product that did not even begin to survive. and too much time has passed to remember the specific time frame.
 
HRoss said:
dan he knew the snakes were going bad. he knew that they were dropping weight. then he knew the one had died. that is when we agreed to send the other back, but she died (quickly) before i ever heard from him agian. the last email i got from him he stated to send the female back and asked me to pay for half of the dead one. the last time i emailed him i mentioned the second one had passed before she could be shipped (he stated to me today that he never got this email). at this point in time i left my roadrunner on for an aditional 2 months while i switched to fiber optic internet from verizon. i have been in the same place for 8 years. he had my address, phone, old and new email by advertisement. and waited until christmas a year and a half later to contact me about it.
it is correct that i did not reply to his demand for half of the animals cost. i still feel that it was a product that did not even begin to survive. and too much time has passed to remember the specific time frame.
Click to expand...

I still think you should have contacted him at least by phone. At this point it would be important for you to post the e-mail exchange so we can be more aware of the details.

Thanks.
 
my emails are gone. my new coputer starts dec 11 2006 on outlook. well after daytona in august. the new email are damaging to others and i will not post them. there was another deal i and a freind in orlando had with this person that went very bad. for me not so bad. like i mentioned earlier he replaced one of the adult females and another adult female died abrubtly with mucus and blue red blood draining from the mouth or airway. i use multiple rooms to quarintine, my freind did not costing him many thousand of dollars and a very unique ball. all of this i really do not want to go into because of the others involved, but it does play a part in me never wanting to have contact with this seller again.
he has placed the blame on me as an individual for both parts the adults and the babies, yet i live about 100 miles away and the same group of females had dramatic interaction with my freinds collection. i know he lost a male super pastel and a unique pastel after being bred to the females from the same collection.
 
i forgot to mention the females were flown to seperate airports and not in further contact. and one of the females my freind had died about a week or two prior to the two males dropping that had bred her.
 
HRoss said:
my emails are gone. my new coputer starts dec 11 2006 on outlook. well after daytona in august. the new email are damaging to others and i will not post them. there was another deal i and a freind in orlando had with this person that went very bad. for me not so bad. like i mentioned earlier he replaced one of the adult females and another adult female died abrubtly with mucus and blue red blood draining from the mouth or airway. i use multiple rooms to quarintine, my freind did not costing him many thousand of dollars and a very unique ball. all of this i really do not want to go into because of the others involved, but it does play a part in me never wanting to have contact with this seller again.
he has placed the blame on me as an individual for both parts the adults and the babies, yet i live about 100 miles away and the same group of females had dramatic interaction with my freinds collection. i know he lost a male super pastel and a unique pastel after being bred to the females from the same collection.
Click to expand...

The friend should have emails, then.
It seems almost too convenient that the evidence is gone, and you not wanting to go into it because of the others involved. Why then did you come here to discuss it?

This definitely is starting to sound like a misplaced BOI thread.

And you asked for opinions; mine is that the nerd snakes thrived and yours died; and there is not enough info here to determine fault yet you continue to post additional shadowy unsupported events to bolster your.....your what? If you are placing blame on a breeder or vendor, take it to the BOI. If you are not, pay the man what you owe him and be done with it.

Don't blindfold us and then try to make us pin blame where you want it.
 
Well, this is getting really convoluted by the minute. You don't want to explain or post evidence and yet you want other people here to give their opinion on...? I'm not sure what now...According to you there are other well-known breeders that have already given you their opinion on the issue. Go with it as they seem to know more about this whole deal than we do anyways.

Merry Christmas...
 
lucille

i dint want anyone to place blame (that is what the boi is for). i came here to hear others opinions on the babies only and ask advice not to start a witchunt. then after 5 pages and some minor things being taken out of context as to communication. it felt like a need to bring them in which if wrong i see your point.
i simply wanted to hear opinions on the baby ybs. after this much time i just no longer have that old ibm i used to use. no excuse, fact.
we are back in contact now and hopefully will come to a resolution. i am not trying to damn anyone, a place of discussion and a question was my goal to bring here. but like most threads they get distorted after a few pages. i would love to have those snakes back. i have been looking for more females of that age for a while. i thought general discussion would serve a better place than running through the muck. i did not think i would find concrete resolution here, but i would find others perspective that were not emotionally involved in the issue
 
well......while I feel bad for you........

The facts as you've presented them.......
You owe the seller the money.

1. You agreed to purchase the snakes
2. You took possession of the snakes
3. You did not pay for the snakes
4. The seller did not forgive the debt

The fact that the snakes are died is unfortunate~ but without any other facts.......
I think you owe the seller for the snakes.
Sorry
 
Word is Bond...

My opinion is that if you saw these animals and made an agreement in person then you should pay the OP the full amount agreed upon. At that point you could then let the seller know that you were very unhappy with the results of the transaction and see if he would be willing to give you replacement animals or return a portion of the money.
Giving someone your word should be as good as money in the bank. You seem to be treating your IOU as an extended insurance policy.
As far as timing goes, he may just be short on funds and having a tough Christmas which may just be bringing up all of the people who have given this OP their word that they would send money for animals received and then never came through.
Merry Christmas All.
 
According to you, if I have read it correctly, he agreed to write off the first one that died and wanted the second one back.

Pay him half of what you owed for both and chalk it up to a bad experience.

He should have kept in touch with you too, though it was primarily your responsibility.
 
i think things will work out between us. we have had some communication towards the end of today that are far more positive than what i woke up to. i don't feel he is a bad guy as a boi thread would justify. The fine line between what is expected from what i feel is owed to a buyer and what is taken at a show obviously have different view points from many different people.
i do not want anything for free. nor do i wish to take advantage of anyone. i just wanted a quality product. where responsibility lies in health of an animal i take seriously. I go out of my way to make sure my lowest end animals are in good health when received. i have learned a few things; never take unstarted animals unless you can handle the loss.
 
HRoss said:
...
i do not want anything for free. nor do i wish to take advantage of anyone. i just wanted a quality product.
Click to expand...
?? You saw these snakes before you took them- I know the difference between 70G & 40G... I wouldn't have been reassured to hear that a wee 40g snake was feeding, rather I would hope it had yet to have a meal. You took a risk- admitting that is the first step here.

where responsibility lies in health of an animal i take seriously. I go out of my way to make sure my lowest end animals are in good health when received.
Click to expand...
Again, you saw these animals, took them & agreed to pay- I don't agree that they should have been for sale because I don't sell an animal I've produced unless it's at least 100g & fed for me a few times.

However I've bought a hatchling from an established breeder prior to it's first shed- I voiced my concerns & worked out ahead with the seller what our course of action would be if any problems came up. That animal has thrived.

Computers, aside, I would have been on the phone at the first offer/refusal... as you said the health of the animal is worth expedient contact with the seller.

i have learned a few things; never take unstarted animals unless you can handle the loss.
Click to expand...

I hope along with taking a risk you learn to accept the consequences of it which IMHO in no way change the fact you promised this person to pay for the animals... I do agree that 40g is TINY, but it's an unmistakable thing. You went in, eyes wide open. I admit, I would have passed on that. It may be a good idea to pass on such a thing in the future... all lessons have a price.

I'm sorry for the loss of the snakes & hope you & this seller come to a satisfactory agreement.
-Deb
 
In my opinion,
You saw the babies. You bought them and did not pay for them.
You cannot prove they had not eaten previous to buying them. Therefor you cannot disprove his statement that they were "feeding" for him. That they did not feed for YOU doesn't mean they were not feeding prior.
The weights were small, but you saw them in person.
You owe the money.
The fact that you couldn't get the babies eating(and baby BPs are famous for not eating with ANY change) was not the seller's fault. The fact that the first snake died, and somehow the second one died before you could decide to ship it back or whatever has nothing to do with the fact that the payment is owed on the snakes.
You're getting something for free, you're getting two snakes, they are dead now, but weren't when you bought them. If you buy a running car, and you wreck it, it's not the fault of the seller.
The seller can't know why those babies refused to eat, and can't know if you maybe forcefed too vigerously, or whatever. You could be the best person with baby BPs ever, but you bought them small, in person.
In my opinion(which you asked for, opinions) you owe the money and you sound like you just want people to agree with you in this thread. We only have what you say about the deal to go on.
 
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