diablo snakefarm
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what happens to a pyro when you shake in a little kingcorn?
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diablo snakefarm
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diablo snakefarm
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Hybridizing something as beautiful as a pyro, what a shame... ahhhh well I guess they would make good feeders.
diablo snakefarm
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I agree with Gordon, why hybridize them, they are beautiful the way they are. Not trying to flame you but why DO you hybridize them? My husband used to create hybrids with some of his colubrids and I do not agree with it at all. So, yeah, i am just curious.
Kelli Hammack
Kelli Hammack
diablo snakefarm
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honestly when /If you want to get down to brass tacks I believe it is un-explored science and I believe the things we can learn about how the diffrent genes/traits match up can be applied to varius other fields of study,far beond just trying to sell a pretty snake youre right pyros are a very beautiful king snake but I want to know what happens when you throw in a little king corn for example.Further more I would like to know how f1 hybrids when bred to other f1's of the same cross stablize out.Could we actually produce down the line animals that breed true.basicly there are flaws in our classification systems where I and many others see room for improvement and that goes for more than just snakes really you dont even want to get me started Ill go on till you vomit....hope this atleast shows where I stand.... ............................................................................................."I am not going to sit around wondering when I can make it so"
Jeremiah Ronsonet
diablo Snake Farm www.diablosnakefarm.com
Jeremiah Ronsonet
diablo Snake Farm www.diablosnakefarm.com
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Thank you for your civil reply.
diablo snakefarm
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I would hope we can all be civil on a scientific level
Jeremiah Ronsonet
Jeremiah Ronsonet
I'm going to keep this as polite as possible but...
BULL$#!%!
"Unexplored Science"
"Learn about how the genes/traits"
"Applied to various other fields of stufy"
What kind of crap is that?!
Alright so... if's pure science and you're bastardizing species in order to gain some profound biological understanding of the genetics involved...
Well, you've got your disgusting bug-eyed freak of nature offspring, so tell me... What did you learn exactly?
What was the hypothesis for this experiment, where are the controls and what exactly are the results?
What amazing knowledge did you gain from this crime against nature that makes it "far beyond trying to sell a pretty snake"?
Incidentally... your hybrid abominations... They look like garbage, the parent species unto themselves are far more visually appealing before you decided that naturally isolating behavioral factors were meaningless.
Don't try to wrap greedy ignorance in the mantle of research, it cheapens the work of everyone who actually is attempting to map out genomes and work towards a better understanding of reptile taxonomy... It's just insulting.
diablo snakefarm
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the only answer I can give you with out stooping to youre unstable uneducated response is get back to me after you get schooled a little.
Jeremiah Ronsonet
Diablo Snake Farm
Jeremiah Ronsonet
Diablo Snake Farm
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diablo snakefarm
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I am curious Seamus what are youre two favorite snake species.?
Seamus, ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!
By the way Seamuse, you somehow managed to put into words exactly what I was thinking. We have had our differences but dude, you have a gift for writing. I hope you are utilizing that gift, you are talented.
Seamus, you're the man, I couldn't have said it better myself.
Restraint, please.
Everyone is just posting opinions. NO ONE is absolutely right.
To start the ground work for a well rounded discussion, will someone please define the terms "species" and "genus" for me?
Then define "hybrid" in relation to the above terms.
Thanks.
Everyone is just posting opinions. NO ONE is absolutely right.
To start the ground work for a well rounded discussion, will someone please define the terms "species" and "genus" for me?
Then define "hybrid" in relation to the above terms.
Thanks.
Definitions
The GENUS is the group of which an individual and others like it belong, and other related, but distinctly different groups of individuals belong. Only very closley related species are grouped together in a single genus. (Example: Elaphe guttata guttata and Elaphe bairdi belong to the same genus).
The SPECIES is a group of organisms that shares a common ancestor; a lineage that maintains its integrity with respect to other lineages through both time and space. At some point in the progress of such a group, members may diverge from one another: when such a divergence becomes sufficiently clear, the two populations are regarded as separate species. The key to defining a biological species is that there is no significant cross-flow of genetic material betwen the two populations. (Example: Elaphe taeniura taeniura and Elaphe taeniura ridleyi are the same species but different subspecies).
The SUBSPECIES are defined as "geographic subdivisions of species". Subspecies usually differ slightly in color and/or size, often associated with a climatic gradient or with barriers that inhibit gene flow and permit local differentiation.
And we can't forget INTERGRADES which are produced by interbreeding between subspecies that have overlapping ranges (in nature, not in our rack systems at home!). (Example: The "Kisatchie Cornsnake" is most likely an intergrade between Elaphe guttata and Elaphe emoryi.)
Ok, someone else can define HYBRID, lol.
The GENUS is the group of which an individual and others like it belong, and other related, but distinctly different groups of individuals belong. Only very closley related species are grouped together in a single genus. (Example: Elaphe guttata guttata and Elaphe bairdi belong to the same genus).
The SPECIES is a group of organisms that shares a common ancestor; a lineage that maintains its integrity with respect to other lineages through both time and space. At some point in the progress of such a group, members may diverge from one another: when such a divergence becomes sufficiently clear, the two populations are regarded as separate species. The key to defining a biological species is that there is no significant cross-flow of genetic material betwen the two populations. (Example: Elaphe taeniura taeniura and Elaphe taeniura ridleyi are the same species but different subspecies).
The SUBSPECIES are defined as "geographic subdivisions of species". Subspecies usually differ slightly in color and/or size, often associated with a climatic gradient or with barriers that inhibit gene flow and permit local differentiation.
And we can't forget INTERGRADES which are produced by interbreeding between subspecies that have overlapping ranges (in nature, not in our rack systems at home!). (Example: The "Kisatchie Cornsnake" is most likely an intergrade between Elaphe guttata and Elaphe emoryi.)
Ok, someone else can define HYBRID, lol.
Good job Kelli
In my work with ants I personally do not recognize the subspecific distiinction. Generally if the ant is distinct enough to warrant distinction I consider it a species. The reason I follow this is that once you start looking at material from throughout the total range of the species it usually turns out that what you were considering a distinctive character usually becomes a portion of the overall variability of that species. I feel pretty much the same with regard to subspecific variation with reptiles. That said For my usage a hybrid is only appliciable when separate and distinct SPECIES interbreed. Many other people consider it hybridization when even two forms or color variants of a species due the nasty, but strictest definition would only be limited to distinct species.
In my work with ants I personally do not recognize the subspecific distiinction. Generally if the ant is distinct enough to warrant distinction I consider it a species. The reason I follow this is that once you start looking at material from throughout the total range of the species it usually turns out that what you were considering a distinctive character usually becomes a portion of the overall variability of that species. I feel pretty much the same with regard to subspecific variation with reptiles. That said For my usage a hybrid is only appliciable when separate and distinct SPECIES interbreed. Many other people consider it hybridization when even two forms or color variants of a species due the nasty, but strictest definition would only be limited to distinct species.
Gordon-
I tend to agree with you on the subspecies topic as well. Taxonomy can be so darn confusing sometimes!
I tend to agree with you on the subspecies topic as well. Taxonomy can be so darn confusing sometimes!
diablohogs
Hogaphile
unbelivable nonscense!!!
this witch hunt is ridiculous.
"oh my god, he created a monster using three diffrent colubrids"
let me start by pointing out that KING SNAKES EAT SNAKES!! so any hybridizing that takes place using king snakes ( ecspecially cal kings) takes alot more time and experience than putting two boas in the same tub and pumping out live babies.
why would someone hybridize you ask...
"Because i like the way that Pyro King Corn Looks alot more than any corn snake, cal king or pyro i've ever seen."
it has produced a better snake. you assume that something has been lost in hybridizing. that is an ignorant statement!!!! any time you add new genes to an animal ( including humans) you are bettering it genetically by freshening the gene pool of that animal. you are in fact adding dominant genes that have been naturally selected over hundreds of thousands of years to a snake that would otherwise not have them.
corn snakes are boring and a dime a dozen. so what if we spiced it up some. threw in a little cal king and a lot of pyro. now we have a whole clutch of snakes that are genetically and astheticly superior to your corn snakes and your king snakes. as far as them being good feeders... pah-lease, i welcome you to try to feed them to one of your snakes.... i'll end up with a pyro king corn with a stuffed belly while you stand there scratching your head in astonishment. people are afraid of what they don't understand and i find this often puts tham in a defensive stance. between me and jerimiah we have the capabilities to hybirdize just about every snake in northern america with one another. we of course do not because we carefully select what is to be hybridized based on thier traits and behavior. take a look at that pyro king corn one last time. you want to know what we are learning?
1. we are learning about the properties of pigment and pattern in snakes.
2. we are learning about how universal pheromones are in different types of snakes.
3. we are learning that the breeding response is typically stronger than the feeding response.
4. we are learning that snakes are alot closer in relation to each other than we believed.
5. we are learning that Seamus is erked by snakes with big eyes.
6. we are learning that no matter how beautiful a snake may come out there will always be some purist out there who feels like we've commited some tabbo against nature like were fricken dr.frakenstein when in actuality the snakes bred on thier own free will. why would they do that unless...? maybe they are more closely related than we had thought. so chew on that for awhile and get back to me. in the meantime i'm gonna see what happens when you cross a purist with a chimpanzee. chances are thier offspring come out superior.
Chad Elmore
http://www.diablosnakefarm.com
this witch hunt is ridiculous.
"oh my god, he created a monster using three diffrent colubrids"
let me start by pointing out that KING SNAKES EAT SNAKES!! so any hybridizing that takes place using king snakes ( ecspecially cal kings) takes alot more time and experience than putting two boas in the same tub and pumping out live babies.
why would someone hybridize you ask...
"Because i like the way that Pyro King Corn Looks alot more than any corn snake, cal king or pyro i've ever seen."
it has produced a better snake. you assume that something has been lost in hybridizing. that is an ignorant statement!!!! any time you add new genes to an animal ( including humans) you are bettering it genetically by freshening the gene pool of that animal. you are in fact adding dominant genes that have been naturally selected over hundreds of thousands of years to a snake that would otherwise not have them.
corn snakes are boring and a dime a dozen. so what if we spiced it up some. threw in a little cal king and a lot of pyro. now we have a whole clutch of snakes that are genetically and astheticly superior to your corn snakes and your king snakes. as far as them being good feeders... pah-lease, i welcome you to try to feed them to one of your snakes.... i'll end up with a pyro king corn with a stuffed belly while you stand there scratching your head in astonishment. people are afraid of what they don't understand and i find this often puts tham in a defensive stance. between me and jerimiah we have the capabilities to hybirdize just about every snake in northern america with one another. we of course do not because we carefully select what is to be hybridized based on thier traits and behavior. take a look at that pyro king corn one last time. you want to know what we are learning?
1. we are learning about the properties of pigment and pattern in snakes.
2. we are learning about how universal pheromones are in different types of snakes.
3. we are learning that the breeding response is typically stronger than the feeding response.
4. we are learning that snakes are alot closer in relation to each other than we believed.
5. we are learning that Seamus is erked by snakes with big eyes.
6. we are learning that no matter how beautiful a snake may come out there will always be some purist out there who feels like we've commited some tabbo against nature like were fricken dr.frakenstein when in actuality the snakes bred on thier own free will. why would they do that unless...? maybe they are more closely related than we had thought. so chew on that for awhile and get back to me. in the meantime i'm gonna see what happens when you cross a purist with a chimpanzee. chances are thier offspring come out superior.
Chad Elmore
http://www.diablosnakefarm.com