What in the world is going on?

[Chris@TSE]

"I don't think it is an accident when someone gets multiple instances of comparatively severe violations of common courtesy. "

Agreed, but I had never been warned of the signature area before and honestly had not idea of the restriction. This was all I was getting at, and the statements in my last post stand. I'm not trying to argue here, I'd like to see the changes you have promised us take place! I welcome them with open arms. But I do believe you can go about these changes in a more efficiant way.... My specific situation just proved my unspoken concerns. Granted I'm ticked, but thats not the only issue here. Thanks.

 

[WebSlave]

I think users here should be made aware of all of these rules before impending this type of action or regime change.....

A mass message perhaps?

I feel this should have been done before issuing such warnings and fines, make EVERYONE aware of every rule, a REQUIRED READING. Everyone gets the message, no excuses. such a warning and fine in my case would have been more than deserved and could not be questioned.

you can also set vbulletin up to make NEW users agree to these collective terms of your before joining, therefore new users will be aware. granted many do not pay attention, but I have a mod that will notice whether the user skims the rules or actually pages through them. ask and you shall receive, I have it around here somewhere.....

you would think with such a hardlined new outlook on enforcement you would do something like this, you are basically telling people they have to search out the rules themselves and if they miss one and are unaware, tough ****.

sorry but I find this a bit rude

Iwas honestly unaware of such a trivial rule and had I known or been informed by your staff I would have been more than happy to comply. Instead, Im warned and fined. To me this is inproper treatment of members who pay to access this site, your new changes are fine. I juyt think you can adjust the implementation of them a bit.



see what I was getting at here rich? Thanks

Actually, such things as posting profanity should be a no brainer, I would think. I don't really see any reason at all for specifically telling someone that they can't do that here. Heck as long as you have been here, Chris, I would think that you would know about such things yourself and not get yourself fined and suspended with your "tough ****" comment. Yes, the vBulletin profanity blocker still works as it is supposed to. Unfortunately, posting even blocked profanity is still a violation. But you knew that, didn't you, Chris?

As for the other rules, ALL of the serious ones that incur an automatic fine and suspension are just common sense rules. Or at least they should be.

Sorry, but it's actually far past due for me to do what needs to be done here.

 

[leaftail]

... and dont make him turn this car around!

 

[Chris@TSE]

Yes but I am not talking about posting profanity, I was talking about a very specific topic actually. You're missing my genuine point here, oh well.

"Sorry, but it's actually far past due for me to do what needs to be done here."

dont apologize, I am not complaining about change. Again, I hate to repeat myself but I welcome the changes. I simply think you are going about them the wrong way, they can be implemented much more efficiently and without such mess. You have done this before Rich, you tire yourself with the mess these types of changes cause and the new changes end up not being enforced as strongly as you would like. dont you think if you made these changes more efficiently and wasted less effort on the mess created implementing them you and your staff would have much more time to spend on actually enforcing them? just a thought.



and yes, another fine...

and the tough #$% slip was an honest slipup but its a slipup I do not look for since I do expect the vbulletin software to PROTECT me from this.

again, this is getting ridiculous and I can now see you simply do not care how you treat your users, or should I say paying customers, while trying to keep peace. you're basically crapping where you sleep. This now feels like nazi germany when I am simply trying to discuss these changes in an honest and genuine fashion. I am not trying to argue yet you are simply ignoring my genuine inquiries and suggestions here. Enjoy another $10 of my hard earned money Richard, I'm glad I am paying to feel insulted in order to be around friends.

Please let me know when you have calmed down, I still have serious suggestions and questions.

 

[Chris@TSE]

also, care to tell me how my "karma" points have been altered without any comments or points left?

from over 2500+ to between -100 and -299 ?

let me guess, manual adjustment? care to explain this?

Again, Let me know when you're actually going to listen to someone who has honest suggestions and questions. It is obvious you are ignoring my comments and simply looking for a reason to remove or fine me and I refuse to play your game any longer. I'll stick to posting pictures of geckos and leave this thread. lol

Good night and good luck with the changes.

 

[WebSlave]

Yes but I am not talking about posting profanity, I was talking about a very specific topic actually. You're missing my genuine point here, oh well.

<<stuff deleted>>

and yes, another fine...

and the tough #$% slip was an honest slipup but its a slipup I do not look for since I do expect the vbulletin software to PROTECT me from this.

again, this is getting ridiculous and I can now see you simply do not care how you treat your users, or should I say paying customers, while trying to keep peace. you're basically crapping where you sleep. This now feels like nazi germany when I am simply trying to discuss these changes in an honest and genuine fashion. I am not trying to argue yet you are simply ignoring my genuine inquiries and suggestions here. Enjoy another $10 of my hard earned money Richard, I'm glad I am paying to feel insulted in order to be around friends.

Please let me know when you have calmed down, I still have serious suggestions and questions.

Yeah, right. You posted profanity, got a warning point which triggered another fine and suspension, and you are shocked to your core over it. Gimme a break, please. And I do love the "holier than thou" routine. But can it please, it's very unbecoming of you, and it certainly does not make any impression on me at all. I know you are smart enough to know exactly what you are doing.

Actually I am feeling very calm about the whole thing. Kind of like the pleasant feeling you get when you finally get around to cleaning up the work room. It's tough work, but rather satisfying thinking about the results when finished.

also, care to tell me how my "karma" points have been altered without any comments or points left?

from over 2500+ to between -100 and -299 ?

let me guess, manual adjustment? care to explain this?

Again, Let me know when you're actually going to listen to someone who has honest suggestions and questions. It is obvious you are ignoring my comments and simply looking for a reason to remove or fine me and I refuse to play your game any longer. I'll stick to posting pictures of geckos and leave this thread. lol

Good night and good luck with the changes.

Well I guess you won't read my reply, but heck I'm up to answering it anyway. This was answered in another thread, so I'll just cut an paste it. I think it explains everything you need to know about what happened.

Bob, as mentioned in the PM to you, there is a karma penalty associated with the fine and suspension. I had it set to give a negative 1000 points for anyone who got themselves fined and suspended. I thought this was appropriate as obviously the post that got someone fined and suspended was most certainly going to be a post that deserved negative karma. And at that time, many people had karma point levels that were FAR above 1000 points.

At the same time you got the fine and suspension, my programmer ran a SQL routine on the database that rolled back EVERYONE's karma points to 10. There have been so many abuses in that system, that I figured the best thing to do is to just start over with it completely. So everyone lost their karma points at that time, not just you.

I have also adjusted the way karma points are evaluated, and quite honestly, under the newly adjusted figures, -1000 karma points is rather harsh. I will adjust yours accordingly to compensate.

Still there will be a -100 karma point penalty attached to anyone fined and suspended. So please keep that in mind.

In reference, also, to your claim of the entire penalty being too harsh, sorry, but harshness is going to be more the rule then the exception in order to get things cleaned up here. The best way to not get on the wrong side of a moderator is by taking extreme caution in how you now post here. The crap that has been tolerated or overlooked in the past is now over with.

And Chris, no, I really don't NEED a reason to remove you. I can do that anytime I wish to. But I would suggest that YOU need to keep from giving me a reason to remove you. Better yet, why not try to give me a reason to want to keep you with an attitude adjustment? That is what this is all about you know. Weed out the people who have antagonistic attitudes towards other members here. Seems to me you have already shown us how readily profanity fits into your vocabulary without much thought about it.

I haven't yet figured out how many fines and suspensions I will allow before a member is banned permanently, but I'm thinking maybe three strikes and you are out has a nice ring to it. I'm thinking that by that time, someone just isn't interested in paying attention to what I am trying to tell him/her. And I don't have the patience to keep on trying for long.

 

[A_Kendergirl]

So, with the way the system is currently set up, a person could blow their top and get a 10 point warning, get suspended, and get fined. (That I agree with) Then, when they come back they make a signature that is 5 lines because they added a space between two lines and they get a 1 point warning, suspension, and fined again. (That's just silly) And if/when they come back they go into a forum (and I don't mean the BOI) and post something off topic once and become BANNED!?! That's beyond overkill.

This is a poor judgement call in my opinion. The punishment is not fitting the crime. It's your site and you can do as you please, but under the current disciplinary system I'd be surprised if you have many members left before long.

I think more reasonable is to have suspensions on the 10s. A suspension at 10 and 20 points, banned at 30. If a person makes it to 30 (not too hard with the big offenses), then they have earned a one way ticket out in my opinion.

To implement this you need to do two things.

1. Knock everyone back to zero. If your programmer sets the ban at 30 points, there are a LOT of people that will be banned outright for points they had on the previous system. 2. Set rules, even general ones, of what you expect of everyone in an obvious space. Make it clear they will be enforced from this point on.

Once those two things are done, you can go warning point happy, and I don't think you would have quite the backlash you are currently having. Everyone is up in an uproar because you implemented the change without letting people know on a broad scale. People are being suspended for absolutely ridiculous reasons.

I want to see this place cleaned up as well, but I strongly think you making some illogical choices in how you are going about it.

 

[A_Kendergirl]

Are you aware that Chris (TSE) has now been fined and suspended TWICE for the exact same post?? Once by Webslave, and once by Logician (??). You want to talk about insanity - that's it right there!

 

[Cat_72]

That just ain't right.

 

[PaulSage]

Are you aware that Chris (TSE) has now been fined and suspended TWICE for the exact same post?? Once by Webslave, and once by Logician (??). You want to talk about insanity - that's it right there!

Just a hunch, but I'm thinking that "Logician" is some sort of administrative account for testing stuff related to the new implementations. That might explain why both Logi and Webslave left the same warning comment. But if Logician really is an individual person, then s/he needs to add his/her name to the post on the BOI from 6/20/03 So it's probably just a glitch, but I may be wrong.

By the way, I noticed that the warning points listed on the BOI forum sticky:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8880
Don't match the ones here: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/warn.php?

Not that I'm planning on racking up any warning points, I just thought that it would be worth clarifying before it becomes an issue (if it hasn't already). Thank you, that is all.

 

[ms_terese]

This is interesting. Look at the lowest reputation list.


Statistics
Highest Reputation
1 - dragonflyreptiles (29)
2 - critical bill (17)
3 - Laura Cox (15)
4 - Suncoast Herpetological (15)
5 - Wilomn (15)
6 - WebSlave (14)
7 - groovygeckos (13)
8 - Golden Gate Geckos (13)
9 - Jim O (13)
10 - brucestephenson (12)


Highest Feedback Score
1 - justcage (74)
2 - Chris@TSE (67)
3 - Casey Hulse (46)
4 - KelliH (36)
5 - Golden Gate Geckos (30)
6 - Mark and Aimee (26)
7 - evansnakes (25)
8 - Mike Greathouse (24)
9 - 5StarrMorphs (23)
10 - progeckos (22)

Lowest Reputation
1 - Chris@TSE (-89)
2 - MillenniumMorph (8)
3 - Ritchie Luna (10)
4 - robin s. (10)
5 - The BoidSmith (10)
6 - DAND (10)
7 - lucille (10)
8 - Neil Gubitz (10)
9 - progeckos (10)
10 - Darin Chappell (10)

Lowest Feedback Score
1 - gotfunk (-7)
2 - Jville_Reptiles (-3)
3 - UpstateExotics1 (-3)
4 - Arboreals of the Rainforest (-2)
5 - crittersgirl (-2)
6 - Gilbert Thompson (-2)
7 - jfhamel (-2)
8 - new2ya (-2)
9 - snake_breeder16 (-2)
10 - Tom McKenna (-2)

 

[Chris@TSE]

Two fines, according to you that would equal -2000 points.

I was up well past +2500

Now I am way below, according to your math there is an error here. But I see you will be adjusting this? How? TIA.

Also, if you're starting over, zeroing out points, why karma and not warnings? I find it strange that you would start one anew, and not the other.

And you can believe what you want, again my intentions were genuine. I am not being antagonistic, I had genuine concern and questions regarding changes that you have stated you are making and had suggestions. I've been met with nothing but hostility. Granted my initial fine/warning brought some unvoiced concerns of mine to the surface but regardless, they are indeed genuine and in case you have not noticed my attitude in recent months since you and I "butted heads" has been quite different.

I'll be the better person here and again refuse to play this game and argue with you. You will not bait me Rich, I have no quarell with you. Nor do I have any desire to waste time fighting when it is apparent you could care less about any suggestions we may have. I only wanted to address some issues and I see now that you are simply taking what I say the wrong way.

I apologize you are unable to take what I say for exactly what it is but unfortunately I simply cannot get through to you. I have stated on numerous occasions I am all for these changes, about damn time! Yet you seem to think I am being antagonistic. This is not the case but if it justifies your recent hostilities towards me, so be it Rich. I am sorry you feel that way. I am perfectly fine knowing I made a genuine effort and I can leave it at that.

Good Luck.

 

[Cat_72]

Uh, and how can it be that Chuck (critical bill) was just suspended, yet now he's in the second highest spot? There's no way he could have gone from -1000 to where he's at now..........?

I am SO utterly confused, lol.

 

[Wilomn]

confusing is interesting indeed. I was over 55,000 and am now at under 49. If I cared I'd be upset but in all truth it's sort of amusing.

Kind of like shoving a stick into an anthill.

Yeah, just about as amusing as that.

 

[Wilomn]

You know what? Come to think of it I offered several times to give ALL my rep/karma points up in EXCHANGE for my warning points going away too.

Rich, are you not quite done removing numbers from my stats yet or is it going to be a halfway job?

Just curious.

 

[critical bill]

I think I was at 10 when the rep points switched to karma. After my two suspensions I noticed that number went down to a 2. I figured that there were more adjustments to the system being done and that was simply that. I'd be lying if I say I spent more than 30 seconds trying to figure out how that actually happened.

 

[Chris@TSE]

so after two suspensions you are at positive 10-49 and I am negative 300-499 or so after two as well.

color me confused....

 

[critical bill]

so after two suspensions you are at positive 10-49 and I am negative 300-499 or so after two as well.

color me confused....

I'm really confused now. How is it your posting while its being listed under your screen name as suspended and fine due? Is there a fine due for you to pay? Is Rich allowing you to view your infraction that caused your suspension in the wake of your complaint about having to pay the fine to see what the infraction was? If so could that be the reason your still in the red?

I don't know...

 

[Matt Haines]

I believe he may have just made that his title.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Well, after reading the list of warnings and their point values, I think a LOT of us are in serious trouble (including Rich)!

Failure to utilize existing thread Warning Level 1 1 point

Posting external link Warning Level 1 1 point

Posting Off Topic Message Warning Level 1 1 point

Shall we all hurry up and go back over every post we made and either delete them or edit them before we get suspended and/or fined?