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what the %$#@ $400 for an APTOR

yea, sorry J !

LOL , well i understand there arent many people buying the high end stuff just to have it,but i once told myself $400 was too much for a gecko then of course spent 2X`s and 3 X`s that for Single Gex after the $400 one ,with even more to follow . gotta get your Gecko LOL

I love them for the animals they are , they are my pets , and their color is amazing too. I dont regret a single purchase . even though it reeeeeaaly ads up .

I did buy mine just to have ,breed together this one season , then do something with the outcrosses from them later . Dad X Het /Mom X Het , working towards some improvements . Maybe playing around with the solid eye color gene .

There are linebred color influences to the APTORs and some may not be Top Quality (cant say thats true for the ones ive hatched), i would sell those for a little less. Otherwise im sticking to my guns , our APTOR and Het have proven to be het for SOLID eye color
 
The ad is on KS it is an APTOR . I have a Het APTOR for sale for $300 + 50 w Shipping included for a total of $350 . Het APTORs were $375 originally ! Now my Male is well over 20g. and $375 Shipped . Then figure the A.P.T.O.R. ($750) has now been replaced with APTOR Het RAPTOR (also $750) and "Snake Eyes" ( $800) . So please tell me how could i ask $750 for even a APTOR Poss. Het RAPTOR ?

Im missing something Gene , WHAT exactly am i doing ? I do not have a reputation or customer base so i try to sell for a whole $75 dollars less and that was at 15 g. "starting price" also. that is a far cry from a $400 APTOR when they were $750-1000 and some of those were even 20 g.
 
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Never expected to get $375 for a Het and $750 for an APTOR as a baby when they were that much for Geckos mostly over 40 g.
 
It appears that it is an APTOR. But I still don't see your gripe, it's only a 15 gram female for starters, the buyer still needs a male (to produce APTOR) which will be higher in price. Are you aware that Tremper has sold RAPTOR hets for $250? If you knew this you probably wouldn't be complaining about a $400 female APTOR!
 
I would like to own APTOR/RAPTORs if they look like the one in Gene's avatar.
Do they start out tan and get orange later? The pictures on KS look more like CRAPTORS. :rofl:
 
I would have to say that the pics must be crappy... mine dulled down after breeding but the color is starting to come back in now
 
The guy in the ad does look like he browned out, but he still looks like an awesome leo.

The only leos that don't seem affected by the continually falling prices are those exhibiting cutting edge line bred traits. The brightest orangest APTORS will probably always command more. But, it the APTOR trait is a simple recessive as Tremper states, or if it is easy to reproduce; expect the prices to continue to fall.

Like others have said, breeders make up the high end leo market. This market is limited and once offspring start being produced in mass it's quickly saturated. Once it's saturated, the prices must drop or the stock won't move.

Even with the line bred traits, only the cutting edge guys maintain their values. I've got a couple of $30 hypo tang carrot tails from Petco that would have commanded well over $1000 a few years ago.

It seems that every year there is someone lamenting the dropping price of morphs, and of being undercut by other breeders. I think that it's been around 10 years since the patternless debuted. Since then, we've had 3 strains of albino, blizzards, and combinations there of. All have undergone dramatic price drops with only top of the line examples of the morphs maintaining higher values and these higher values for the most part are still significantly less than the debut price of the morph. Given this history why does anyone profess surprise and dismay when the prices start to drop?

Forgive me if I sound harsh, but I've heard / read various incarnations of this lament every year since I've been breeding leos.

-Alice
 
Amen. What I was contemplating posting... if only I weren't so lazy today. Best I didn't as you put it rather tactfully I say.
 
Gene , Only baby non-albino Het RAPTORs are being sold for $250 . mine were $750 and about $300 (discounted) for the Het because i had also bought a second Het and other Tangerine Albinos . But they were sold as APTOR and Het and there was no mention of them being Poss. Het RAPTOR .

Im not really suprised after the history of this market , just feel its time to break that cycle .

Not that it was /is a new morph but 6-8 months ago my PA`s were $800 pr. now they are closer to $ 500-600 pr. even from the same breeder , that just seem more gradual to me.

CHCTTJGA`s were $800 pr. (smallest size) now even Ron sells for $500 pr. to make way for the pricing of the APTORs and Hets . Im not complaining just that this is a little too soon . The size i can totally understand but i know i will clearly state that prices are for babies ONLY , so there is no confusion later when the prices start to rise as the animals grow . BTW Just got the Blazing , we won from the Hayden Fund Auction Today ! He`s cool ! :cool:
 
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brucestephenson said:
I would like to own APTOR/RAPTORs if they look like the one in Gene's avatar.
Right behind you, Bruce. Quoting prices on APTORS is like quoting prices on tangs or snows or redstripes. The nicest examples (like that one) will still bring a higher price. Now to check and see if that $1400 Urban tang tornado is sold yet.
Click to expand...
 
Ive been really busy for a couple of days and will be honest I have not read every post of this so if I am repating someone Im sorry.

Dan, if you buy a leo whatever, lets call it a Rocket for $500 and you breed it and you want $500 for the babies, it doesn't matter if Joe Blow is selling them for $300, $500 is your price and thats what you will take for them or keep them yourself.

I know that sounds odd but I did not go into this thinking that since I paid $300 for a moose offspring that I would get $300 for my offspring from the matings with him. I went into this thinking, I paid $300 for a male breeder that can mate many females and if I sell each for $250 Im doing great.

So I guess its a matter of persceptive, what you want for the leo and what others sell them for too.

Bottom line is if you want $XXX for it and do not get it, you either keep it, or breed it and prove out your breeding because a proven to produce a desired trait holds more value than a maybe.

Just my thoughts on this price deal
 
dragonflyreptiles said:
Bottom line is if you want $XXX for it and do not get it, you either keep it, or breed it and prove out your breeding because a proven to produce a desired trait holds more value than a maybe.

Just my thoughts on this price deal
Click to expand...
You forgot one thing... keep it, breed it, or lower your price to whatever seems to be the rate that the customers feel is a respectable price.
 
Truthfully when i first started buying i was under the impression that you could get what you pay . But ive learned that thats not really the case especially being new at least as far as selling goes (been in herps for many years keeping and breeding a little ) . Like i was saying $800pr. for Jungle Giants last year from Ron and now this year they are $500 pr. so no way do i expect to get more than $200-250 ea. until they grow a good amount and show their color potential . obviously the ones that show up to %70-80-90 CT and lots of Tang or Carrothead right away in the first few sheds would be more . And i guess thats definately something price should be based on . I havent hatched a "decent" one yet (only a few) , i mean they are much better than expected , and the parents are some of the best looking out there . Had a temp spike and lost 3 out of 6 eggs , only have 3 babies , only one is an APTOR , two are Hets but one is Ruby eyed . Guess thats where i lucked out they are Het RAPTOR then my babies will be Poss. Hets . Just havent hatched too many or done much breeding with them .
 
Gene ,personally does this affect your pricing decisions at all on your Hets or APTORs ?Just curious , and basically why i posted . It is a young APTOR and not of the best color yet (which takes time though on some) so its not that rediculously low . I just dont think i expected to see one of the first offered besides RTs at the price of Hets .
 
I think Im following you more now since I read more, if you pay $800 for a HIGH quality pair then you expect them to produce HIGH quatlity babies that sell for a comparable price to what you paid for the breeders.

But if they produce a lower quality that you have to sell for less then it is dissappointing in more than 1 way.

That can go the other way too though, I got lucky with some Crested Geckos hets and produced babies that are much much higher quality than expected based on the parntes and were priced higher based on their quality not what I paid for the parents.

Maybe the $400 aptor ad you found was a lower quality than a higher priced one?
 
yea , pretty much . Its just you might hope for or expect ( you , i , anyone) maybe 3-4 hundred ea.for babies from 5 hundred dollar ea. stock etc. , then by the time your able to sell theyre(say where you got yours from ) selling for $3-4 hundred themsleves . now you should expect/hope for $200-300 ? This has been the norm with each of the morphs ive purchased , only about 6 months after . Guess i never realized that it happens so quickly . Everyone seemed to be trying to delay sudden flood of the market/price drop with the "Co-doms" ( ourselves included ) , why not something as awesome as a APTOR or RAPTOR.
 
Maybe the $400 aptor ad you found was a lower quality than a higher priced one?
Click to expand...
Perhaps , and the fact it is only 15 grams .

The original release the APTOR was $750 and Het $375 with the nicer APTORs up to $1000-1250 though. They were Poss. Het for Ruby eyes , and funny thing is there was no mention of the possibility at the time. :hehe: Since we hatched a Ruby eyed Albino will make our other babies Poss. Hets so i guess that will be something to figure into the pricing .

Keeping that Ruby eyed and will likely sell 1.1 , hopefully she is not done laying after the loss of the 3 eggs . :bawling:
 
It can get frustrating, I find it hard to price them at all. But I also try not to think about what I paid for the breeders and everything that goes with them. I try to base it only on the baby itself and what I would pay for it I guess.

I have gotten lucky a few times and found a great price on soemthing that should have been higher but its usually when someone is in need of selling something fast for whatever reason.

I do not have any high dollar leo breeders, I wish I could afford them but I can't, at lesat not til next spring.
 
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