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What would you like in a show?

What would you like in a show

  • Good food at the show

    Votes: 34 31.5%
  • Nice, clean facility

    Votes: 67 62.0%
  • Larger variety in animals at show

    Votes: 89 82.4%
  • Reasonable price to get in

    Votes: 63 58.3%
  • Reasonable price for tables

    Votes: 58 53.7%
  • Ample parking

    Votes: 49 45.4%
  • Contests, lectures, presentations, etc.

    Votes: 42 38.9%
  • Dore prizes, raffles, give aways...

    Votes: 42 38.9%

  • Total voters
    108

evansnakes

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I am doing my annual show again this November and I have been a vendor at over 1000 reptile shows in, I believe 16 states, 32 cities over the past 13 or so years. I am really curious to hear what suggestions you guys may have from both sides of the aisle, vendor and customer, that you would like to see that would make a show better.

I did some things I thought were really different and neat at my show to make things more enjoyable for everybody, but I really wonder what you guys think. What about it? Any thoughts?
Evan Stahl
 
Hi Evan

Reasonable price for tables, was the only one that didnt get my vote due to the fact I dont sell at shows. In the few shows that I have been to, I have been in search of good grub and a reasonable admission.
 
Hey Al. It is quite a dilema for show promoters. Do you charge a high price for tables and limit your dealer pool risking empty tables or charge more for admission at the door and alienate some customers? Tough choice. You have to find a balance somewhere but it is hard to do. I charge $100 for a table for two days at my show. So basically $50 a day. I feel that is reasonable. I charge $6 for adult admission. I also feel that is very reasonable, even cheap these days. You can't see a movie near me for less than $8.25. You have to bring in the public for the vendors to make money no matter how much or how little you charge for tables.

There are shows that charge as little as $3 admission all the way up to $15. There are tables as low as $15 and high as nearly $300! It is really wide open.

Good food was a must at my show. I am really tired of old hot dogs or running out for fast food. Evan
 
I would imagine it would be hard to charge a small table fee as well as a small admission fee. If I would choose one or the other, I would try to make the adult admission lower if possible, because from what I gather, It is alot easier to sell ANYTHING if there are people there to buy.

Lower admission=more potential buyers.

Although im sure you would have to make x amount of money total for both.
The high admission prices at some shows would have to hurt as far as people paying to enter. One show that I thought was overpriced was Tinley. Wasnt Tinley $15.00 at the door?
Im no show junky as there are not many shows in my area.
 
You hit the nail on the head Al. Tinley was expensive at $15, but Bob and Brian did a bunch of great stuff and set up one huge beautiful show. So again we get back to the "You get what you pay for" mentality I guess. It is tough. Nice, large facilities are expensive. Advertising is expensive. Everything is expensive. It is a tough balance. Any thoughts on any other angles of the show concept or thoughts about doing something different? I think people like Bob and Brian are doing great things, but I also feel that there is always so much room for inovation it would be nice to see more new things. Evan
 
Your forgot a choice

I'd like rich people with fat wallets that like lizards :D

...or at least Visa/MC with high limits
 
I don't do shows anymore myself, not as a vendor. I may again someday, but I have no plans of it. I grew disenchanted with the whole marketplace mentality.
There is a couple of things that I've never seen implemented though, that would be useful. I'd like to see maybe 5 or 10 tables set aside to be sold as half tables. This is mainly just to level the field a bit for the smaller breeders who have a harder time justifying the purchase of a full table when they can never fill it. I prefer to purchase from such people, or at least directly from a breeder. I've gotten tired of the prevelance of large dealers who purchase 5 or 6 tables for all their WC stock and the stuff they've picked up over the last two weeks.
Breeders have my respect and buisness, but high volume dealers who only buy and sell normally get little more than a cursory glance as I walk by. I'm probably in the minority here, but that's my viewpoint.

Another thing I would like to see is a trade/private sale room set up for shows that do not allow outside reptiles to be brought in. I understand not letting people bring in animals to sell, and from the vendor perspective I agree with the rule.
There are times though that someone arranges for delivery of an animal at a show to avoid shipping.
While people should not be allowed to simply bring a tub of lizards and peddle them in the show, prearranged sales or trades should be provided for. I know there have been several shows I had no need to go to but did because someone asked if I could bring their snake to them there. The show provides a fine excuse to make the drive.
While I haven't done it myself, I have been with people who took animals with the hope of negotiating a trade with a vendor.
In these cases, it would be simply a nice convenience if the activity was provided for. Difficult to implement perhaps.

A large variety of animals is always a great plus, although it may not be very much in the control of the promoter. I've been to several shows that were saturated with CH balls and leopard geckos. Buyers easily get tired of seeing the same thing, especially when they have no real interest in them. Without variety, the show will eventually go under.

As far as door prizes and all, I can take them or leave them. Honestly I don't even listen to the announcements, so I may have won in the past an never knew it. Basically they have no bearing on my enjoyment of the show.

One other idea I have had, which may be totally unfeasible, is to change the admission policy. One of the largest problems at many shows are the sight seers. People who often have no interest in reptiles, but make it sort of a family day at the zoo so to speak and bring the kids out to see all the weird creatures.
I'm sure you've been to shows where the attendance was 5000, but the vendors report low sales.
This is also a big aggravation for the attendees who are there to make purchases. They find themselves unable to get to the table for all the casual onlookers who are marveling over the alien like reptiles but have no idea what they are looking at, many cringing or having mock convulsions (i.e. the willies) because "snakes are creepy".
This problem is especially severe at a show I go to regularly. On the same grounds there's normally either a dog or horse show and a gun show the same weekend. Many people visiting these other events drop by the herp show while they are there. This causes attendance to break 8000, but only a fraction of those are there to buy, or are able to for the crowd.
I'm all for introducing new people to the hobby, but it's in everyone's best interest if the people standing in front of the table has at least a possibility of buying something.
As an alternative, I would propose a different method of charging admission. If you want say $6 for an adult as the ticket price, then charge say $16 at the door. Any purchase at the show would entitle them to $10 back on the admission charge. The vendor they purchase from could sign or stamp the back of their ticket stub for verification.
Ideally it would be valid for any purchase at all. At the very least, the dry goods vendors selling $1.99 water bowls would make alot of sales.
While this may possibly lower admission revenue by discouraging the people who come only for the novelty of seeing animals they otherwise care little about. It would, in the end, raise the quality of the shows. The people who have no intent of buying anything at all are only good for the $6 admission anyway. Beyond that they only serve to waste the time of the vendors, and get in the way of those who are there to spend money.
As I said, this may be completely rediculous, but from the standpoint of someone who has never organized a show, it seems like an idea that might be workable.
 
You know Clay, I am actually right there with you on most of what you said. Some interesting thoughts.

I always thought it was easy to get animals into shows if you know a vendor. They just come out and get it in for you.

I don't know how well the ticket refund charge thing would work but that is a great idea that I have heard used at some other types of trade shows. I'm just not sure with the low attendance and overabundance of herp shows in many areas, how it would go over. I do think many people would argue over it.

To avoid the ball python/leopard gecko delima that is becoming such common place these days, I booked a bunch of tables at my show to people who I knew were specialized breeders. I had 1 person with poison arrow frogs only. 1 with bearded dragons only. 1 with only turtles, etc. That way you highlight those vendors as specialized to the segment of the crowd that is looking for that particular thing. I wanted to have a couple dealers at my show just for the variety they can carry, but 3/4 of it is breeders and unique items like clothing, caging, etc. It may be an unpopular approach to setting up a show to not allow 10 tables of leopard geckos, but the end result is happier vendors and a happier public. Evan
 
It is normally not a real problem to get animals in if you know a vendor. Many show goers though, don't have this luxury.
We know alot of people in the hobby, and that gains us certain benefits that many do not have.

I do like your approach to getting vendors. While you don't want a monopoly on a species, limiting the number of vendors that typically specialize in a certain common species helps everybody. The vendors only have one or two other booths to compete with instead of 10, and the buyers don't feel like they're at a leopard gecko convention.

I also agree that implementing some sort of admission rebate system would likely be met with resistance, but I also feel that some method of limiting the amount of attendance by the "let's go see the wierdos and their reptiles" segment would in the end result in a better show on both sides of the table.
Perhaps my opinion of this is affected by the biggest show I attend regularly being predisposed to this problem from the other non-related events always held at the same time. It may just not be a real problem in other locations.
What we have is a building probably twice the size of a high school gym with 140 tables. I believe the last show broke 11,000 in attendance for two days. By midday, just getting down the aisles gets nearly impossible, let alone getting to the table to actually buy anything.

And personally, I would simply ban baby strollers from the show, get a back pack for those carpet crawlers, geez. :D
 
I completely agree with the whole refunded ticket price thing. I was actually thinking it while reading what Clay had written and then, poof, there it was. I was thinking a full refund of admission with a certain purchase price. Basically just a (reimbursed) discount on whatever they bought since prices are generally somewhat negotiable anyway when you're buying more than a water bowl. Because you are marketing your show to the people that will buy, why not have them get in for free? Only problem I can see would be people abusing the system. One plan to circumvent that would be for the vendors to receive one certain colored ticket per animal they have and they hand it to the person who buys the animal who gives them their admission ticket and then the buyer gives the refund ticket to the person at the door on their way out for the refund and each dealer has to be accountable for all the refund/entry tickets which are to be compared to the inventory later. Don't know how much the dealers would like that extra responsibility, but I think once the ball got rolling on it and they saw that more people came to buy, they'd probably be more open to it.

As for food, YES, please get something worth eating in there. Personally, I don't eat pork or beef, so I never have anything but junk to munch on and I'd like a nice turkey sandwich or sub or something.

Also, for the people buying... request that the dealers print up a basic care sheet to accompany each animal sold.

As far as high admission price goes, I don't think it'd be a deterrant for those who come to buy, but it may be a deterrant for those who come to look, and for those who come to look, but end up buying. Again, more incentive to refund in whole or in part the admission.

ALL KIDS MUST BE ACCOMPANIED BY AN ADULT AT ALL TIMES!!! (enough said there)

Well, I'm sure I could think of more, but it's 4:30am, and I'm tired... off to bed!

Good luck with your show!
jb
 
Thanks Jonathan. Some of us never do sleep, eh?

It would be just about impossible to give full refunds to people buying, while it is good for vendors, the show promoter has so many costs incurred (if they advertise and have a nice facility) that the promoter would lose an enormous amount of money even after tables are paid for. Typically, table monies cover the rental of the building and some or all other costs. The door, or part of it, is usually the only return that a promoter gets.

Last year I lost money doing the show, but it was the first one and I felt that charging only $5 at the door and giving vendors extra display space free of charge, were things that I needed to do to try to establish an annual show. This year I would like to try to be profitable. We'll have to see what happens.

If anybody wants to see what the show looked like last year I threw a couple pics on the site at www.micbexpo.com. The hotel is just a great place. Evan
 
Very, very good ideas

While people should not be allowed to simply bring a tub of lizards and peddle them in the show, prearranged sales or trades should be provided for.

If you want say $6 for an adult as the ticket price, then charge say $16 at the door. Any purchase at the show would entitle them to $10 back on the admission charge.

I could see how "sight seeing" could be a problem, BUT, many people (my girlfriend and I included) are impulse buyers. And if the admission is not over inflated we will go to "browse" and will more often than not, come home with something. I know inpulse buying is totally lame, but sometimes it is hard to pass up something you have been considering buying for a while, and even harder to pass up when it is sitting before you.
 
Just a comment on the food issue...
I would only do food if there is a place set aside for eating. Not to be a party pooper, but I do believe that shows should be clean and set an example for the proper handling and keeping of herps. Mixing eating and looking/handling herps is iffy in my opinion and would probably make the Health Board go crazy. With the HSUS's fuss about salmonella, food and reptiles should probably be kept separate.

Another thing I like at shows--sticking to the outlined rules. If it is advertised as captive bred only, then make sure it is. Having someone to go around and remove all the half dead or dying animals off tables is a good idea too. A nasty look or word to those who have those kinds of animals for sale to the public is an additional bonus.

I dont mind the sightseers too much--just see them as future potential customers : ) But the refund idea is pretty neat.
Dana
 
Good food at the show don't care, If I'm a seller I would bring my own, if I'm a buyer I eat before or after. If it means lower prices for a table or addmision I can do without (might even do me some good if you know what I mean) Although from a promoter standpoint, and even to a lesser degree a vendor standpoint, the longer you can keep people there the better chance they will buy something. Not having to run out to BK would perhaps keep people there longer

Nice, clean facility A must

Larger variety in animals at show Would be nice but hard to control. How many times do you think I would try to sell at your show if the first time you told me "oh sorry, we already have 3 leopard gecko breeders and we want more variety." cross your name off my list and I might not even attend as a patron.

Reasonable price to get in reasonable is a relative term Ive been to shows that were inexpensive to get in that were very good, and I have been to shows that were expensive and been disappointments. Maybe the cost of admission had something to do with that dsappointment (if it had only been half as much it wouldn't have been so bad type of thing) to me anything over 5.00 per day better give me something special. By special I don't mean lots of fluff an glitter. A decent selection, quality animals polite staff and vendors, room to move around etc. Stuf a promoter should be striving for anyway. if it is an annual show I could see $10.00 or maybe $15.00 but thats getting a bit steep. (what is daytona) for a two day show to charge $15.00 but you can get in both days on that is BS. I didn't go to Tinley this year because of that. Well that, and the 1.5 hour drive and the fact that the year before I had to force myself to buy something. Charge $10.00 for 1 day, $15.00 for two.

Reasonable price for tables I am not a seller yet but this goes hand in hand with cheap admission. I had a friend who used to Lee's swap a while back. He had moved to the midwest from california and he told me that whenever he was contacted to be a vendor at a show one of his first questions was, What did you spend on advertising, and where did you advertise. If I am going to pay $50.00 (a fair price IMO) for a table you had better be promoting the heck out of this show to get people through the door. I like the idea of the half tables though maybe at $35.00 a pop. I just don't think I would have enough to fill a full one.


Ample parking Nice, it would be nice to have a parking lot and it would be nice for the vendors to have a spot close by.

Contests, lectures, presentations, etc. Nice but not if they add to the cost of either a table or admission. I go for the reptiles not the shows. I'm not saying I wouldn't take one in but if the choice was 5 bucks to get in and no bwanna bill wild reptile show or 10 bucks and free amission to the bwanna bill wild reptile show I'd go with the 5 buck admission in a heartbeat. Same goes for adding to the cost of a table. Although again, as a promoter or a vendor I can see where this might help draw people in.

Dore prizes, raffles, give aways... Again, nice if they don't add to the cost of my ticket. If you have to rely on gimicks like this to draw people in you are in trouble from the start


My swap experiences have been rather limited to date I have only attended the following shows

Lee Watsons
great lakes in gurnee (the first one)
chedderhead show in New berlin
sewerfest in racine (actually sold at those)
Tinley park

Lee watsons I only get there 3 or 4 times a year because of my work schedule It is about 2.5 hour (RT) drive for me but if I could arrange it I would go more often. The bad thing is I can be in and out in a half hour because there is rarely anything different. And I don't buy WC stuff. I guess thats the problem with a bimonthly show.

Great lakes expo went to the first one, the animals were nice but I wasn't impressed with a few other aspects of the show itself (I suppose I will get another nasty email from the promoter about voicing my opinions again) they may have addressed those issues I don't know.

Chedderhead show It was small (new show and all) and I didn't have a lot of time (work issues again) but I enjoyed them. I don't know how much Kevin would like me to reveal but I'll just say that he allowed special accomodations for me and other retailers. If he has them again I will attend, and if I have more success breeding this year I may even set up.

Sewerfest 20 minute drive nice location, reasonable table fees couldn't resist setting up. Had a good time made some money, will probably do it again if they have another.

Tinley park is a large show compared to the others (and pretty good sized in general from what I understand) but I was disappointed. I didn't like the $15.00 bucks for admission on Saturday, and if I didn't see anything I liked then why would I make a 3 hour round trip to see if there was anything new on sunday. If it had only been a 15 minute drive I might have gone back late sunday to possibly get some deals but then again maybe not. The variety was very good and the quality was good (except I could swear it was supposed to be a CB only show)

The fact that I am a reatiler and I may be looking for animals for resale in no way affects my opinion of the show itself. I form my opinions of a show from the standpoint of many of you. I am looking for an animal or animals for a pet or for a personal collection. I understand that these vendors are not wholesalers (although many are willing to give breaks to retailers) and that is not the purpose of these shows. If I can convince a vendor to give me a break great, if not, I may still buy, and I may not. I won't hold that against the show however.

Evan, I applaud your efforts to provide a better show.

Steve Schindler
 
Hey Steve. Thanks very much. I am trying.

Just to clarify some other posts, at my show, which is in a Hilton hotel, there is no food served at the show itself. In the hotel there are two spectacular restaurants. So you can leave the show, stop in the lobby, wash up, get some food and then go back to the show or go home or whatever. I am a reptile breeder, not a caterer or chef and have no desire to deal with any troubles involved with food service. It is just really nice to have the good food there. If you want it, great. If you don't, it is still there if you change your mind. Evan
 
Evan,
What i would really like to see at shows are free snakes given to guys named Ken;) Actaully I missed your show last November, son had tonsils out. I was pretty bumed about it to, but hey what can you do? Anyway i am fairly new to the herp hobby, I have been to the Novi show and found it pretty bare, IMHO. After all being in Flint it is about an hour drive to there. Your show is fairly closer and not to far from Bass Pro Shops (yet another plus!). I plan on being there this year! Although I often wonder why all the herp shows are in southern MI? How come us "upstate" don't have anything. I see quite a few of us "michiganders" on here. Maybe there should be one big state wide show. Maybe a central location within the state, hey just ideas. Also if you have flyers printed send some up here and I'll drop them around some local shops. or better yet if you have a flyer on a floppy, send that and I can use the work printer (free ink and paper!)...Just some ideas...
 
Hey Ken, good to hear from you. I have three main reasons for doing a show down here in the Detroit metro area:

1) This is where I live and I am tired of driving all over the country to do shows

2) There is a much higher population density down here, more big cities, more pet shops, more people.

3) This is where I live and I REALLY tired of driving all over the country to do shows

It has something to do with pride and respect too. It is nice to try to have a cool show that you can be proud of where you are from and show the local trade some love in the process. It helps establish you with local media as well. Just thoughts.

How are your animals? I hope you can make it to this years show. It is going to be a good one. Evan
 
Evan,
Those sound like pretty good reasons to me! It almost sounds like you don't want to drive all over to do shows...;) The Nelsons are doing great!!, I got a couple of non-related females for them, so in 04 I should have babies of my own. Oh yeah I do plan on being at the show this year. I'll put in for a vacation day to make sure I can be there! But the offer is outstanding if you do have fliers I would be more than happy to pass them out for you at the local shops here in town. I wish I had enough stuff to get a table at your show, but maybe in a few years when all my babies get big enough..Oh yeah it's like 4am don't you ever sleep???
 
Ken, thanks for the generous offer and I will take you up on that in the fall. As for sleep, I sleep all the time. At least 1-3 hours every 2-3 days, need it or not. My doctor used to tell me that he met very few people that could go 5 days without sleep and that slept as little as I did, but that I would develop a more normal pattern when I got older. Well, I turn 32 next week and still don't sleep. What do doctors know? I tell you this is the right thing to do for a living when you are an insomniac though. I can clean ball pythons from 1-8 am without the phone ringing once! Evan
 
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