HerpVenue
New member
dude if you did not have an "issue"
then why did you post that?
But here is a copy and paste of a post you should read.
I hope you are inteligent enough to comprehend.
By the way.....for someone who has SO MANY complaints about the BOI....you sure do stay here a lot lately.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There has been quite a bit said about communication, honesty and fair buisness dealings (That's why the site is here, isn't it?) but a point I haven't seen mentioned, although I'm certain most of us understand, is that there is just as much value to the way a person writes and the way they deal with a situation that can be a major indicator of how they might go about doing buisness.
There have already been a few posts where that trend between typing ability and the efficiency of an individuals communication seems to be connected to that person's credibility and even honesty in many instances. I'll situationally agree with that myself, base language, rift with vulgarity, threats, misspellings and a total lack of punctuation does tend to give me the impression that the person writing is either; not very smart which would make me question dealing with them anyway OR it gives me the impression that they're loaded with emotion at the time of writing. A guilty person who has no evidence of their innocence, facing public opinion which can drastically effect their ability to function within their chose field of endeavor will often respond with very basic, almost primal, instinctive responses... Something about the potential threat triggers a "fight or flight" type of response. Most unfortunately choose to fight. They do this by trying to reverse the situation ("Yeah, I screwed him over, but he screwed over me too!"), just being outright foolish and vulgar or threatening("I'm an elevn foot tall seven hundred pound man with a gun and no fear of the police, if you ever show up at a reptile show, I'm going to beat you up!" usually also loaded with dispariging remarks about an individual's sexuality for soem reason[I have never personally seen a fight at a show, I've been to a good number so you'd think if any of these angry murderous types were serious, I'd have spotted it at least once]) or a few who think they're being smart by avoiding those first two responses attempt to cast dispersions on the validity of the entire process. Unfortunately these are the people who think they're clever (Thread in question, made foolish accusations in order to prove...?) and occasionally can cause actual headaches for other vendors/breeders/hobbiests. The proper response of an innocent individual is a simple explination, given calmly, or a logical and reasonable refutation of the statements, as was seen on this thread ("I don't think I dealt with you, but if you can supply proof, then we can go from there.")
If one goes a bit deeper than that pretty superficial stereotypical "bad guy action" however, an underlying cause for these behaviors can be seen. The individuals themselves are morally and ethically bankrupt, they try and rip people off, actually rip people off and generally do some pretty shady or inappropriate things. This is not the same as two respected individuals having a friendly debate about the worth of say; a two week guarantee on shipped animals vs. a five day guarantee, this is just immoral and often downright criminal or negligent actions. Because of that moral bankruptsy however, they do not see their actions as being inherently wrong, they feel no guilt for their indiscretions. This can cause a bit of a problem...
I think that many of these people may actually think that the BOI is a "Clique" who gangs up on people... They simply can not process the concept of individuals who simply think the same way or arrive at the same (or similar) conclusions based on logic and a fairly well developed ethical system with clear views on Right and Wrong. They actually seem to expect people to come to the conclusion that their actions were correct, no matter how ridiculous or far fetched their actions may have been. They often seem to turn around and be the individuals to create posts like this one. Or to threaten to sue WebSlave (Not ever going to work by the way, part of the reason names is required is to make individuals responsible for what they post rather than the WebSlave. That and libel laws only work if the damaging information is untrue, unfounded or unjustified [like accusing Neil and Rob of having bad animals when there has never been an intraction], additionally... There are ways of tracking the individual responsible for posting libelous statements, even if they use a fake name, something you may want to bear in mind before trying this YET AGAIN)
It's a given that if you deal with immoral individuals, you'll be ripped off.
It's also a given that people will form opinions based on how you present yourself publicly, how you respond to allegations, how you provide proof or evidence of your opinions and just how you generally communicate with other people.
If you've been accused of being a bad guy, don't turn around and label the board as being invalid or a waste or in any way inappropriate... Just correct your actions and it will turn out fine in the end. Nobody on this board can reasonabley expect others to be 100% mistake free... and they never do, but owning your mistakes and correcting the situation is the key to ensuring it turns out properly for all parties involved. In fact, admiting a mistake and working past it to correct it is often better sounding to a potential purchaser than if no mistakes had ever been made. I can find a post that says "Great guy great animals" but that tells me nothing about what might happen in that unlikely eventuality that something does go wrong. I'd rather get "great guy, great animals, great CUSTOMER SERVICE" even if I only know about it because a mistake was made.
End point is really- The BOI itself is not inherently anything. It represents potential without any given positive or negative. The individuals on the BOI are also not inherently anything, there may tend to be a general consensus among individuals with similar moral systems, but that does not mean it's a "clique" or that there is any premeditation about who will be allowed and who excluded. The only things that will effect how you are recceived and treated on this forum are your own actions and attitude. Act unproffessionally, perform criminal acts and you'll be called on it. Keep a proffessional or at least reasonabley polite and respectful demeanor and you'll be treated as you deserve on that score too. The choice is entirely up to every individual who chooses to post. You can build a solid reputation and increase your buisness and your likelyhood of succeeding, or you can dig your own grave, stand at the edge and blow the back of your head off. What you can not do, is blame anyone else for the results. Your choice=your consequenses.
As a few small footnotes... Nobody ever gets away with trying to hide their identity for long, the manner of writing, the IP address, the concepts put forth are dead giveaways, nobody who posts regularly here is stupid (Except perhaps Underhill, I wouldn't really call him bright) but ESPECIALLY not the moderators. They're fair people, they're honest people... but they find crooks and cons the way sharks hone in on injured fish and it's impossible to get away with any activities I like to term "Foolish Crap"
And the last bit here... Nobody can accuse me of belonging to any cliques, groups of friends, clandestine BOI cults determined to retain power or any other nonsense... I've only done buisness with four or five registered BOI members, not a one of whom posts regularly, I'm just calling things as I see them when I think it's appropriate or benificial to do so.
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Seamus Haley
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then why did you post that?
But here is a copy and paste of a post you should read.
I hope you are inteligent enough to comprehend.
By the way.....for someone who has SO MANY complaints about the BOI....you sure do stay here a lot lately.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There has been quite a bit said about communication, honesty and fair buisness dealings (That's why the site is here, isn't it?) but a point I haven't seen mentioned, although I'm certain most of us understand, is that there is just as much value to the way a person writes and the way they deal with a situation that can be a major indicator of how they might go about doing buisness.
There have already been a few posts where that trend between typing ability and the efficiency of an individuals communication seems to be connected to that person's credibility and even honesty in many instances. I'll situationally agree with that myself, base language, rift with vulgarity, threats, misspellings and a total lack of punctuation does tend to give me the impression that the person writing is either; not very smart which would make me question dealing with them anyway OR it gives me the impression that they're loaded with emotion at the time of writing. A guilty person who has no evidence of their innocence, facing public opinion which can drastically effect their ability to function within their chose field of endeavor will often respond with very basic, almost primal, instinctive responses... Something about the potential threat triggers a "fight or flight" type of response. Most unfortunately choose to fight. They do this by trying to reverse the situation ("Yeah, I screwed him over, but he screwed over me too!"), just being outright foolish and vulgar or threatening("I'm an elevn foot tall seven hundred pound man with a gun and no fear of the police, if you ever show up at a reptile show, I'm going to beat you up!" usually also loaded with dispariging remarks about an individual's sexuality for soem reason[I have never personally seen a fight at a show, I've been to a good number so you'd think if any of these angry murderous types were serious, I'd have spotted it at least once]) or a few who think they're being smart by avoiding those first two responses attempt to cast dispersions on the validity of the entire process. Unfortunately these are the people who think they're clever (Thread in question, made foolish accusations in order to prove...?) and occasionally can cause actual headaches for other vendors/breeders/hobbiests. The proper response of an innocent individual is a simple explination, given calmly, or a logical and reasonable refutation of the statements, as was seen on this thread ("I don't think I dealt with you, but if you can supply proof, then we can go from there.")
If one goes a bit deeper than that pretty superficial stereotypical "bad guy action" however, an underlying cause for these behaviors can be seen. The individuals themselves are morally and ethically bankrupt, they try and rip people off, actually rip people off and generally do some pretty shady or inappropriate things. This is not the same as two respected individuals having a friendly debate about the worth of say; a two week guarantee on shipped animals vs. a five day guarantee, this is just immoral and often downright criminal or negligent actions. Because of that moral bankruptsy however, they do not see their actions as being inherently wrong, they feel no guilt for their indiscretions. This can cause a bit of a problem...
I think that many of these people may actually think that the BOI is a "Clique" who gangs up on people... They simply can not process the concept of individuals who simply think the same way or arrive at the same (or similar) conclusions based on logic and a fairly well developed ethical system with clear views on Right and Wrong. They actually seem to expect people to come to the conclusion that their actions were correct, no matter how ridiculous or far fetched their actions may have been. They often seem to turn around and be the individuals to create posts like this one. Or to threaten to sue WebSlave (Not ever going to work by the way, part of the reason names is required is to make individuals responsible for what they post rather than the WebSlave. That and libel laws only work if the damaging information is untrue, unfounded or unjustified [like accusing Neil and Rob of having bad animals when there has never been an intraction], additionally... There are ways of tracking the individual responsible for posting libelous statements, even if they use a fake name, something you may want to bear in mind before trying this YET AGAIN)
It's a given that if you deal with immoral individuals, you'll be ripped off.
It's also a given that people will form opinions based on how you present yourself publicly, how you respond to allegations, how you provide proof or evidence of your opinions and just how you generally communicate with other people.
If you've been accused of being a bad guy, don't turn around and label the board as being invalid or a waste or in any way inappropriate... Just correct your actions and it will turn out fine in the end. Nobody on this board can reasonabley expect others to be 100% mistake free... and they never do, but owning your mistakes and correcting the situation is the key to ensuring it turns out properly for all parties involved. In fact, admiting a mistake and working past it to correct it is often better sounding to a potential purchaser than if no mistakes had ever been made. I can find a post that says "Great guy great animals" but that tells me nothing about what might happen in that unlikely eventuality that something does go wrong. I'd rather get "great guy, great animals, great CUSTOMER SERVICE" even if I only know about it because a mistake was made.
End point is really- The BOI itself is not inherently anything. It represents potential without any given positive or negative. The individuals on the BOI are also not inherently anything, there may tend to be a general consensus among individuals with similar moral systems, but that does not mean it's a "clique" or that there is any premeditation about who will be allowed and who excluded. The only things that will effect how you are recceived and treated on this forum are your own actions and attitude. Act unproffessionally, perform criminal acts and you'll be called on it. Keep a proffessional or at least reasonabley polite and respectful demeanor and you'll be treated as you deserve on that score too. The choice is entirely up to every individual who chooses to post. You can build a solid reputation and increase your buisness and your likelyhood of succeeding, or you can dig your own grave, stand at the edge and blow the back of your head off. What you can not do, is blame anyone else for the results. Your choice=your consequenses.
As a few small footnotes... Nobody ever gets away with trying to hide their identity for long, the manner of writing, the IP address, the concepts put forth are dead giveaways, nobody who posts regularly here is stupid (Except perhaps Underhill, I wouldn't really call him bright) but ESPECIALLY not the moderators. They're fair people, they're honest people... but they find crooks and cons the way sharks hone in on injured fish and it's impossible to get away with any activities I like to term "Foolish Crap"
And the last bit here... Nobody can accuse me of belonging to any cliques, groups of friends, clandestine BOI cults determined to retain power or any other nonsense... I've only done buisness with four or five registered BOI members, not a one of whom posts regularly, I'm just calling things as I see them when I think it's appropriate or benificial to do so.
--------------
Seamus Haley
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
