Where is.....

[nicolai]

Wow chuck I just realized that you have 95 points there. Time for you to keep a low profile and start flying under the radar!!! Either that or have a E-Check made out to Rich ready!!

 

[nicolai]

My Thanks

I would like to extend my personal thanks to all of you who were willing to give up some of your hard earned cash to bring our friend WES back to fauna. I would also like to thanks the others that came to the thread to speak thier mind one way or another. We may not always agree on things but atleast if you speak up and let your point be heard you will have a voice in this community. Having a opinion and speaking that opinion is what it is all about. I did not agree with a few of you who posted here but this forum and the world in general arent perfect places and we cant agree all the time. I truly hoped to get WES back here but like that go-cart i wanted for my 10th birthday years ago, I dont always get what i want.( I built my own go-cart at 13).
Rich, thank you for atleast giving us the opportunity to bring one of our friends back to fauna, maybe people will see now that you have a little more humanity in you then they thought before. I am sure you will still get more of the dammed if i do -dammed if I dont. But atleast you can say you gave us the chance. I wouldnt want all your headaches associated with this site for any amount of money. I would have to walk around with a beach towel on my shoulder for all the Whiners, A bar of soap in my pocket to wash out a few foul mouths, A doberman pincher to chase the trolls out, A club to break up the neighbor hood fights, and a Barrett M82A1 to clean the site of the scammers, scumbags, ripoff artists and such.
Again thanks everyone for putting in the effort!!!!

 

[WebSlave]

Rich, thank you for atleast giving us the opportunity to bring one of our friends back to fauna, maybe people will see now that you have a little more humanity in you then they thought before.

Funny how different some perspectives can be. I've been thinking the exact opposite.

 

[nicolai]

huh????

Funny how different some perspectives can be. I've been thinking the exact opposite.

In what way?? Do you think people would think less of you for giving someone the chance to come back again? Or think you have less humanity for it?

 

[Stardust]

Hmmm, I was thinking the opposite as well.

 

[nicolai]

In what way roz. I dont undersand what your saying. Am i missing something here? To me giving someone a second chance would show to people that there is actually a human behind the "webslave" persona.

 

[WebSlave]

To explain, early on with this site I tried to be as accommodating and patient as possible. I hated the idea of trying to straight jacket everyone with rules and regulations. Honestly when I first set up the very first BOI on HerpWantAds.com, I thought I would get mostly professionals (or at least average people acting professional) involved that would take a keen interest in helping to clean up this business for the benefit of us all. In such an environment, it would have been no sweat at all for me to manage the site. I really would have nothing much to do except look for ways to enhance and improve the site. I would have been more of a coordinator then anything else, keeping very modest rules and at most correcting minor oversights in protocol and decorum. Hah! Instead I became the schoolmarm needing to scold the kids on the playground. Sometimes getting more harsh with the penalties as the situations warranted it. Eventually it became close to a full time job! Not my cup of tea, and not my idea of having fun running a website. Especially one that was being paid for out of my own pocket.

So I HAD to become less lenient and less forgiving, especially rather recently with the crackdown on the rules. Don't know if I would say it had anything to do with my "humanity", however, because to be honest, I'm not all that impressed with the average expression of "humanity" that I have seen lately. But I do know that I care less about "humanity" in general then I did a few years ago. Honestly I do wish we all had common goals here, but such just is not the case. Self interest seems to rule the day, apparently. And I guess a case can be made that I am suffering from some of the same when I decided last year I am just not going to do this crap for free any longer. My own "self interest" (or maybe "self preservation") decided I would much rather do something else rather then this with my *free* time.

So is that some loss of "humanity"? Hard to say. Depends on how you define that word. Perhaps some loss of naivety, compassion, enthusiasm, and hope, I guess, but how much of those qualities defines the average "human" anyway? Did those losses (or evolution) make me more, or less, "human"?

 

[nicolai]

ah....uummm.....I am going to have to let that post sink in a while before i even atempt to respond to it. You semed to has gone the the "philosopher" side of things on me. Humanity is the ability to learn from ones mistakes, the ability to understand the decisions we make, and to understand we are responsible for those decisions. Humanity is remembering people are affected by the things we say, we do and cause by our actions or intentions and be willing to make things better from them. Humanity is knowing that people are not perfect but rather all are flawed in one way or another
and we are able to accept them for who they are. I also believe humanity is being able to give people a second chance only because they might not have gotten things right the first time around.

 

[Jim O]

I also believe humanity is being able to give people a second chance only because they might not have gotten things right the first time around.

Nick,

I'm curious as to whether this is waxing philosophical yourself or if it is in reference to Wes. If the former, I agree. If the latter, while I very much would like Wes back, this would hardly be a "second" chance. Don't ya think?

 

[nicolai]

Nick,

waxing philosophical yourself

Stumped a bit as to your meaning on this but the way I see things whether it be right or wrong I have and will do anything I can to help my friends. Though sometimes it may be a unpopular thing to do, it will always be the right thing to do.A friend is someone that will help you out when he has nothing to gain himself but the knowledge that he did what he could as a friend.
So if your asking if my reference above was about WES, yes, Even though he had many many chances over time to change his ways I personally felt he was due another chance. I know yourself, Webslave and others felt he had more then enough chances and wasted them and should be banned but I am still allowed to have and keep what I think is my right , my opinion, as I see it and I want it to be.

 

[Jim O]

Stumped a bit as to your meaning on this but the way I see things whether it be right or wrong I have and will do anything I can to help my friends. Though sometimes it may be a unpopular thing to do, it will always be the right thing to do.A friend is someone that will help you out when he has nothing to gain himself but the knowledge that he did what he could as a friend.
So if your asking if my reference above was about WES, yes, Even though he had many many chances over time to change his ways I personally felt he was due another chance. I know yourself, Webslave and others felt he had more then enough chances and wasted them and should be banned but I am still allowed to have and keep what I think is my right , my opinion, as I see it and I want it to be.

As for his banning, it was Rich's call to make, and I have made clear that I miss him here and would rather he was not banned. Sometimes though, in order to "help" our friends we need to be honest with them and about them. Same goes for our children. Minimizing what Wes did on his way out the door does not "help" anyone, least of all Wes.

 

[WebSlave]

Stumped a bit as to your meaning on this but the way I see things whether it be right or wrong I have and will do anything I can to help my friends. Though sometimes it may be a unpopular thing to do, it will always be the right thing to do.A friend is someone that will help you out when he has nothing to gain himself but the knowledge that he did what he could as a friend.
So if your asking if my reference above was about WES, yes, Even though he had many many chances over time to change his ways I personally felt he was due another chance. I know yourself, Webslave and others felt he had more then enough chances and wasted them and should be banned but I am still allowed to have and keep what I think is my right , my opinion, as I see it and I want it to be.

Hmm, does that mean that if one of your friends was put into prison, you would try to help him escape?

 

[Matt Haines]

Hmm, well it would be pretty cool for a while to have prison schematics tattooed on your torso.

 

[Stardust]

I have a friend who was homeless, I let her in. She stole things and for her own good I told her to get help and in the mean time she would have to go somewhere else to live as I couldn't have my children exposed to that. Well it was gas she took, she went to the homeless shelter, got a job, and did what I asked, got help. She is now serving 90 days instead of paying her fines. She is on the right path. She could have left, instead turned herself in and dealt with it, no felony here, if she had left no biggie for her she would have been ok as the warrant was only in this state.
As a friend, I see her, write her, talk to her on the phone while in there. I am the only person she really has. Did I help her get away with something, hell no, I told the police what I know. But I also helped her to help herself. She was fully aware she had hit rock bottom in depression, she has been clinically diagnosed as bi-polar and never knew it. She will get out in 5 days and will stay with me for about 2 weeks until her apt is ready. I understood her actions and needed to just be directed in the right direction. I trust her to come here again.
What I am trying to say, its not all black and white like the question you posed to Nic, there is a middle ground, a gray area.
I am not saying Wes is sick or needs help, this story was not about that but about your question, it made me think of this situation.
It is said that no matter who you meet no matter how little of time they will some some way change or alter your life. You learn from everyone.
Wes in this situation now on fauna is humbled by his supporters which prompted the changed of heart to try harder. He is a human being with great insight. I am not asking anyone to pay to have him come back as I fully believe 100% he would be set up and people would lose their money and Wes would be out again. I think he understands this as well.
He has been heartened by the fact that people came to his defense and sometimes that is enough.
I have seen so many changes on this site, and to be honest, it has turned more money and goverment. Something Rich, you said you would never do and was adament about it. You did change, as I think Wes thru all of this has too. I will still come here as I have friends here, and I so far have only bought from people from fauna classifieds, and never had a raw deal yet. But I will not think of it as the same fauna or the same Rich. I personally find that sad and unfair. MHO Perhaps people have changed you as well.

 

[PaulSage]

You know what's really irritating?

When issues regarding the administration of this site and questions of authority get an unbelievable amount of attention in comparison to issues and topics that this site *appears* to have been designed for. The dead horse has been beaten so badly it's barely recognizable. I've seen animal husbandry questions go unanswered despite the fact that numerous members here are likely capable of providing assistance. It's really disappointing. The original question of this thread appears to have been answered, so it quickly turned back into ANOTHER thread questioning the administration and monitoring of the site. IMO, stuff like that should be kept behind the scenes.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

While this thread has gone from where Wes is to bringing him back,I do understand that the bottom line is .......This is Rich's site and we only pay rent to be here......So no matter what we may want or say Rich being the landlord here has final say and as tenants we just have to deal with it.So IMHO if asked anything in the way of how would you do this or what would you do are falling on deaf ears, The answers are predestined .As much as I like this site I see it as "This is only business nothing more,nothing less" Wes is gone and won't be returning his choice or business decision, The bottom line is Its all about the Money,Its business nothing more.so when your rent is up its your choice to stay or go sad as that seems

 

[WebSlave]

I have seen so many changes on this site, and to be honest, it has turned more money and goverment. Something Rich, you said you would never do and was adament about it. You did change, as I think Wes thru all of this has too. I will still come here as I have friends here, and I so far have only bought from people from fauna classifieds, and never had a raw deal yet. But I will not think of it as the same fauna or the same Rich. I personally find that sad and unfair. MHO Perhaps people have changed you as well.

Gee, how quaint. Someone else thinks the entire world should be for free. Nothing should cost anything and everyone should have the freedom to do as they please, not matter who it may hurt. Take a look at the HELL forum (or I assume the War Room over on TRR). Is THAT the way you want this entire site to be? Well sorry, but I don't, and that is my choice to make.

Sorry, Rozann, but the world just isn't like that utopian commune that the flower children of days past wished for.

Do you work for a living? Surely you have some sort of income? Why do you ask to get paid for YOUR efforts? Why not donate your time and efforts for free like you are indicating I should do here? What exactly is the difference?

Remember that nicolai offered the option of the $1K fine for Wes. I didn't bring it up and nor had I considered it beforehand. I could have just said NO, but certainly you would have thought me the ogre then as well, wouldn't you?

Yes, my involvement here has most certainly changed me. It opened my eyes up quite a bit. It's even worse then I had thought it would be when I started the BOI to try to help fix it.

So tell me Rozann, what's your stake in this? It had been nearly 8 months from your last posting here since starting this thread. It's not like you are some regular here and are really going to miss conversing with Wes on this site. So what is it that motivated you to bring this up? Hmmm???? Sorry, but from what I can see, your stated motivation here just doesn't add up.

But at least you got the word out that Wes can be reached on that other site, now didn't you? Good for you!

See this is the kind of thing that has soured me on "humanity". So many ulterior motives at play.......

 

[WebSlave]

While this thread has gone from where Wes is to bringing him back,I do understand that the bottom line is .......This is Rich's site and we only pay rent to be here......So no matter what we may want or say Rich being the landlord here has final say and as tenants we just have to deal with it.So IMHO if asked anything in the way of how would you do this or what would you do are falling on deaf ears, The answers are predestined .As much as I like this site I see it as "This is only business nothing more,nothing less" Wes is gone and won't be returning his choice or business decision, The bottom line is Its all about the Money,Its business nothing more.so when your rent is up its your choice to stay or go sad as that seems

Don't let the door bang you on the butt on the way out.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Ok I'll make a note of that

 

[ms_terese]

Paul, I have great respect for your opinions, but I disagree on this one. This forum is designed for bit....erm....complaining and venting, and I think it's ok for this thread to have taken the turn it has taken. If the administration of this site is a recurring theme, then it means that people have adamant feelings about that. If I were Rich, I'd be grateful for that.

Rich, I don't know what Roz's motivations were, but I do know that she was off all the forums I am familiar with until recently. Also, I don't think it was any secret to anyone which other forums Wes hangs out in....he was on them before he left Fauna. While you have no obligation to disclose any information you might have that brought about that slam to Roz about "ulterior motives", I hope you are aware of something I'm not to warrant it.

Yes, things have changed here. Things change everywhere. For the most part, I take change in stride. A few things here I've had a bit more difficulty doing that with, but I've still decided to stay. I have to tell you though, Rich, the hardest thing for me is when you issue open invitations for people to leave. It smacks of unappreciation for their business...and if they pay to be here, they're giving you their business.

I have alot of respect for you, Rich, and for most of your moderators. Sometimes, though, I think your vacation wasn't long enough. Maybe it's just the total failure of internet forums to communicate tone, and I interpret things differently from their intended meaning, but I hear resentment and bitterness from you. I don't know why; I would think that the support you received when taking this to a pay site would have reinforced to you the value of FC to so many people.

Maybe I just read too much into things.