Where is.....

[Chris@TSE]

It is obvious you don't understand. Don't take this the wrong way, it just seems you're too busy thinking of it as a business venture and must think people are here because of the forum and the resource alone. They are not. Remove these thoughts from the process and try to understand....

Many are here for the people, friends, information, the resources, plain and simple FUN.... Its a message forum. Not a stand-alone government or country.

They are not paying to look over thier shoulders or deal with idiots out to cause problems who know they can get away with it as long as 100 points will float them. People expect a certain level of service when paying for a membership as well....

I do not know about you, but when paying for a membership I feel as if I am entitled to certain things..... dont you? Paying in order to access information, restricted or enhanced portions of a site, the staffs time and attention towards matters that may make their experiences on such a place unpleasant.

Yet these same people are paying to be treated quite poorly in some cases with a "your opinion means nothing" \ "dont like it get lost" attitude and having to deal with some folks who are out to ruin the experience while they rack up points needed for staff to actually take action and remove them.

I know you'll take this the wrong way, you always seem too.... But before replying and taking offence please give it a bit of thought and try looking at things from a members point of view. The perspective of someone who pays to access this place and enjoys the company of their friends and dislikes seeing people ruin things in the process. Rules are rules, and they are certainly needed, but sometimes "diplomacy" can sometimes backfire. Its odd though, sometimes it seems things are like a hardlined dictatorship, and on the other hand, such as the warnings when applied to folks like good 'ol dennis, they seem wayyyyyy to diplomatic. A stable and comfortable medium would be nice.

Try to think of this place as you would refer to a hangout of yours.... you enjoy the place and it'll take a whole lot to make you seek out a replacement. I hope you can understand why many people seem to be upset yet are still here. They are here because they dont want to leave, they voice these things in the hopes youll care and perhaps address it. Maybe even try to work with them.....

Im sure you can agree a person may find it hard to stop frequenting an old hangout if management began treating them poorly, especially when all their friends still rough it out and frequent the place. They arent there for the management are they? Hell no.

They rough it out until they are unable to take anymore. Sometimes the good outweighs the bad, and sometimes the bad simply overpowers the original motives for inhabiting such a place and people move on.

Your "dont like it leave" attitude does not help. It simply makes those paying you to be here feel as if they are paying someone who could care less about their genuine concerns for a place they actually love to frequent.

Again, dont take this the wrong way, I hope you may be able to look at it from another point of view and possibly understand just why these upset few are still here and keep brining up similar concerns and arguments....

things dont nearly seem to be as hostile as they were before, and it seems folks are getting used to the changes, but I do have to admit the attitude you diplay in some cases makes me feel a bit uneasy. I know, what does it matter right? Just sharing an opinion, I know it obviously means nothing to you but I feel better knowing my concerns and feelings are out there in the open. Granted, its not a huge deal...... Its just a darn website right?

Hopefully things continue to subside and folks can learn not to be so confrontational..... Just seems since all of these things have occurred there has been SO much unpoken hostility and knife twisting.... Obviously some folks are angry about numerous things.... and when they voice them, well... they are exactly welcomes with open arms.

More like.... "tough........ get lost"

Again, take it with a grain of salt and try to understand the flipside of the situation.

I also like it here, and also plan to stay. I guess im still a bit bent out of shape and feeling as if a family and friend atmosphere has turned into something less appealing..... Can't quite put a word or description on it, but I guess ive covered my thoughts well enough...

Take care, hope your turkey day is a good one

 

[nicolai]

I wish I could give you good karma for that post Chris. You musta got a good night sleep to think that post out.I am hoping that rich does indeed to look at it from someone elses view. If he looks at it from the website admin point of view he will think your just giving him a hard time again. If he looks at it though a members eyes I think he will see you have a good and valid point that most would agree with. The people on cheers didnt frequent that bar because of the management, they frequented there to be with thier friends. Now if Dianne (cheers management) made a daily habit of going into the bar and giving the patrons a hard time and let them have it when she had a bad day, most patrons would complain but still comeback to enjoy some time with thier friends.
This must be the day for analogies or something.Either that of i am getting very philosophical in my old age.
Rich, we are happy here, we want to stay here, we think you have a good site here,we like joining our friends here,We are here to help you when needed, the one thing that i see that most people want is for you not to be so passay about things they feel are important, especially when you say "go or stay it makes no difference to me". If you walked into your familys house for thanksgiving dinner today and they told you go or stay its no difference to us, you would feel just a bit distraught wouldnt you?

 

[Lucille]

I also would like to acknowledge that this was an honest and fair evaluation by Jay, and is what I consider to be the type of thing a GREAT moderator would do. YAY JAY!!!Lucille, I cannot for the life of me understand why you would even add to the 'drama' on this thread by posting this, and by doing so, I honestly feel like it is you that is "not trying to make a cohesive point, but rather, because you are upset, bringing in a lot of extraneous subjects, much like marital fights where a spouse will list decades of past wrongs instead of focussing on the issue at hand." Get over it!Right on, Nick... Fauna DOES have a good site!

Marcia: As of late you seem to repeat and assess many of my posts. That is exactly what I was doing to the post I was describing. So I am happy to see that you are agreeing...... or are you in fact saying that you may assess my posts but I do not have a similar right to my feelings about other posts that concern me? I am sorry if you feel that way, Marcia, and a bit surprised.

 

[Chris@TSE]

actually not a wink of sleep, been cooking all night lol

 

[nicolai]

Lucille-Marcia...Take it to PM before someones itchy trigger finger gets the best of him...its getting a little too personal for comfort.

 

[critical bill]

Well since it is blindingly obvious to you all, tell me what IS that BAD side that seems to be so oppressive and more evident then that hidden GOOD side just now exposed?

Have you ever watched the movie by Spike Lee's "Do The Right Thing"? Watch the flick and let me know what you think.

 

[Dr Owens]

Lucille-Marcia...Take it to PM before someones itchy trigger finger gets the best of him...its getting a little too personal for comfort.

Does estrogen make you nervous Nick?

 

[Lucille]

Does estrogen make you nervous Nick?

Good point Nicolai, and Jay you are too funny. I think the point is well made though, and I plan to spend the balance of my day today being positive.

Nicolai: Good point
Jay: Good humor
Marcia: We may not see eye to eye each day, but you are pretty cool most of the time and you have terrific gecko info.
And the rest of y'all: Enjoy your day, and let's appreciate that we are fortunate, we have so many good things in our lives....

 

[nicolai]

Does estrogen make you nervous Nick?

I am not one to turn my head from a good cat fight but when two friends are putting themselves in jeapordy of recieving some unwanted "diciplinary action" I figure i better say something. Besides they can always start a thread of thier own and have at it, or they could take it to hell and have a "no holds barred" cage match. Besides isnt estrogen the thing that gives women all those mood swings anyway?

 

[Stardust]

Well I can see some people take what I say one way some another. BTW Nic I also said I was staying here and that this is where I buy from. Seems weird people overlook my good remarks. I am entitled to my opinion about change here, there are things I do not like, but none the less I stay because there are also things I do like.
Please Lucille, I have seen you on here many times reading, it wasn't just read this morning, you are finding your strength in others thats all.
Where did I lie? Please point that out to me?
What I said from TRR is true, if not, I invite you to war rooms so you can read what has been going on there. I suppose you will say you have no wish to, great way to get out of it. Let us see if you can get in. And at least I have the courage to retract when I am wrong, can you say the same thing?
No, I am not taking any anger out, for the most part I have not been angry, even tried to get the thread over with, if you read, but I get called back. I really don't care what you think anymore, Lucille.

Anyway, Rich and I am PM'ing the business thing and what I meant out of it. So since this is happening I feel no need to do it here. My posts were all replying to other posts.
Thats it. Wes thing was answered, he himself answered indirectly, this thread should be over.

 

[nicolai]

Sorry Rozann

I will gladly update my last Post As i unintentionally left you out.




Kelli said she likes the site and is happy here.
Lucille always, and I mean always says how happy she is here. raspberry )
I stated that i like it here and plan to stay.
Marcia stated that fauna is a good site
Rozann stated she likes the site and plans to stay.

 

[WebSlave]

Perhaps you are right, and I am not looking at it from a member's viewpoint. But I have to say, the possibility does exist that a few of you are not looking at it, accurately, from mine as well.

In the scenario below (sorry, but I don't watch that TV show, so I'm using the facts listed below verbatim), suppose a couple of the patrons kept coming up to Dianne (cheers management) complaining about different aspects of how she runs the bar. And not just once, but every chance they got when the opportunity arose. If the conversation even got remotely close to their favorite gripe, boy, they would be right in there. Don't you think Dianne would get tired of not only the same old topics being rehashed, even though they had been discussed many times before, and then finally just get tired of hearing that particular person singing that same tune? How long do you think it would be before Dianne would start thinking that her life and her bar might be far better off if that person just hit the road and left her (and the other patrons) in peace with her establishment that she is trying to run the best she can? Is that a hard concept to grasp? If you do happen to frequent a bar, try it out sometimes and see what sort of response you get from the owner after a year of it.

Do you all want my involvement in this site or not? This is something I created and is something I would like to see working well. It is painfully obvious to me that it will not work in a manner I would be proud of if I left it to it's own devices and did not lay down the law about how I expect people to act here. As such, when issues are brought up, I think it is in everyone's best interests that I do get involved. But perhaps I am wrong. Would it be best to let issues go unanswered? Let falsehoods and misconceptions go uncorrected or unchallenged? That would be a better policy for me to adopt?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If the majority of the people here want it cleaned up and the garbage that has plagued it removed, then they have to accept the fact that doing so may require some things they they did not foresee nor possibly agree with. Some people they liked to see here might in fact be a big part of the problem and need to be straight jacketed or removed completely in order to accomplish the stated goals. Matter of fact, some of the people complaining about the problems could even be part OF the problems, maybe not even realizing it.

I cannot make everything about this site perfectly peachy for everyone. That is a given fact. When I state "tough, take it or leave it" I mean that sincerely for those people who cannot adapt to the changes I feel are necessary to make this site a better place for the majority. If you are in the minority, then you can either adapt or leave. I will not change this site to accommodate your desires solely on the fact that you and a small group of discontented people want something different out of this place. Some people have extreme difficulty accepting the fact that their opinion might just be a minority opinion and react rather negatively to what they perceive as bias or prejudicial treatment towards them. I can't tell you how many people have gotten severely angry at me because they made suggestions that I rejected because I did not feel they were appropriate nor best for the situation I was trying to address. Honestly folks, do you honestly believe I would ask for input without putting a lot of thought into it beforehand? I don't make changes lightly, so give me some credit for having at least a couple of working brain cells remaining.

Some of you are admins and moderators on your own sites. It's not as easy as it seems getting a site this big, now is it? I will tell you that it is not going to get any easier even after reaching a large size of membership. With 24,000 registered members, if even 1 percent are discontented, that means 240 members ragging on you about one thing or another nearly daily. Try that statistic on for size and see how you would like being in that hot seat. If you try to accommodate them, likely that number of discontented people will balloon into a larger number. All you can do, realistically, is try to cut your losses by telling that small percentage of discontented people "tough, take it or leave it", because quite honestly nothing else will resolve the issue, and nothing said otherwise will be acceptable to them. Been there, done that. There is only so much time in a day, and so much patience available to make efforts to appease people. It is not an infinite supply to draw upon.

Myself and the moderators here would like nothing better then to have nothing to do. Sorry to say, but it is the members who flaunt or are ignorant of the rules and details of common sense in posting on a public message board that keep us busy. And yes, for nearly every warning point we have to assess someone, that tends to generate about 3 emails or PMs because of it. You think we LIKE wasting our time? You think we have reason to harass people or enjoy trying to correct the errors they are making in judgement and good sense? Please, don't be silly. I would wish nothing more then to have this site not need any rules nor need any moderators at all. I would like to be able to come on to this site, read the threads and participate, fully enjoying my time here. But such, obviously, is not the case. And whose fault can you pin that on? ME? Because the rules are painfully obviously necessary?

Criticism comes with the turf, and I accept it as being part of my job. But I can only do my best with EVERYTHING under consideration, which may not be what YOU in particular would prefer. The things that get under my skin is when someone reaches the point of the criticism becoming blatant harassment and trolling. In effect, not only beating a dead horse, but digging it out of the grave in order to be able to do so. Unfortunately, there is an average of 25 new members registering here per day that might be reading about this exhumed horse they are beating on, and if I do not address it, then the intentionally misleading statements and malicious innuendos might get them thinking the wrong idea about that dead horse situation. I really have no other choice but to address it. But honestly, it does get old, and sometimes it will show. Sometimes I just lose my patience with people that will shoot from the hip in the dark not even realizing they don't have a clue about what they are shooting at. Even when I feel pretty darn certain that someone is just simply trolling, I still try to give them the benefit of the doubt, and will patiently try to address the points they brought up. Up to a point, that is.

So yeah, I do understand what you are saying about the member's point of view here, and I do believe I am capable of looking at it from that perspective. But I can't limit myself to only that view. Because to be quite honest, in many instances, the particular members that I might be using as that perspective might not be looking at it from the majority's angle. They may not be even considering MY perspective at all, because it just doesn't mean a hill of beans to them. And to be quite honest about it, there is no natural law that I am aware of that demands that the majority of any given group of people will be correct in their belief about what is the best course of action to take. Sometimes I do have to make a decision that is just the best that I can come up with, regardless of how many other people think otherwise. Because in some cases, it might just be a situation where the only perspective that means anything to me is my own. Those are the tough ones, but I do have to do them when necessary.

I wish I could give you good karma for that post Chris. You musta got a good night sleep to think that post out.I am hoping that rich does indeed to look at it from someone elses view. If he looks at it from the website admin point of view he will think your just giving him a hard time again. If he looks at it though a members eyes I think he will see you have a good and valid point that most would agree with. The people on cheers didnt frequent that bar because of the management, they frequented there to be with thier friends. Now if Dianne (cheers management) made a daily habit of going into the bar and giving the patrons a hard time and let them have it when she had a bad day, most patrons would complain but still comeback to enjoy some time with thier friends.
This must be the day for analogies or something.Either that of i am getting very philosophical in my old age.
Rich, we are happy here, we want to stay here, we think you have a good site here,we like joining our friends here,We are here to help you when needed, the one thing that i see that most people want is for you not to be so passay about things they feel are important, especially when you so go or stay it makes no difference to me. If you walked into your familys house for thanksgiving dinner today and they told you go or stay its no difference to us, you would feel just a bit distraught wouldnt you?

 

[Stardust]

No problem Nic LOL
Because I have some issues with one person on this site and am not fond of all of the changes never meant nor did I say I wanted to leave. Any slighted complaint of opinion and I am where Rich is "damned if you do damned if you dont".
Never did I say I didn't want to come back here.
Just wish Lucille would have ponied up and backed me that for the last 8 months I have not been on at all much. The friend she claimed to be. But oh well. There are others who know I have had some problems, and maybe I can even pony up the IM with her talking about it.
Anyway, I am fully tired of this, I would rather get to other forums here I like.

 

[Lucille]

What I said from TRR is true, if not, I invite you to war rooms so you can read what has been going on there.

I don't understand, Rozann. First you claim I was banned from TRR. Then in this very thread you retracted, admitting you did not know what you were talking about, but said my ban was just from their war room. Now you are inviting me into their war room.


And I distinctly remember in some very private conversations you asked to share with me about your life, that you asked for confidentiality, which I agreed to.
Now you are taking me to task for not telling the world the reasons for your recent absences; you yourself have implied in statements here on the board to personal reasons. Those reasons are covered by your request to me of confidentiality.

What is it you are trying to accomplish by these mutually exclusive assertions?

 

[Stardust]

I don't understand, Rozann. First you claim I was banned from TRR. Then in this very thread you retracted, admitting you did not know what you were talking about, but said my ban was just from their war room. Now you are inviting me into their war room.


And I distinctly remember in some very private conversations you asked to share with me about your life, that you asked for confidentiality, which I agreed to.
Now you are taking me to task for not telling the world the reasons for your recent absences; you yourself have implied in statements here on the board to personal reasons. Those reasons are covered by your request to me of confidentiality.

What is it you are trying to accomplish by these mutually exclusive assertions?

Totally sorry to say this but your whole post is just lame. I almost can't believe you wrote it.
I said you were banned, I recanted and said I was wrong about it. That is not saying that I don't know what I am talking about. Please quote for me where I said I did not know what I was talking about.
Actually I was half correct on the banning, you can still go on that forum just not in the war rooms because of whinny reasons.
I invited you to try to go into the war rooms, if they let you back in you have a lot to read LOL
Get it straight Lucille, don't jump on the band wagon because I made a mistake in my writing and then CORRECTED it.
Now onto the other half, re-read my post, correctly this time. I did not ask you to air my personal business, I asked you to confirm I was having trouble during that time and not on much during that time, NOT to elaborate on it.
Can you not tell the difference? I thought the first one or two times I said this that it was very clear. Rich was thinking that I was on and just not coming here until Wes was banned, YOU knew that I was not going really going anywhere on the internet as Wes did, as I did not talk to him either, but he is banned, so you are the OTHER person that knows this.
I REALLY see you for who you are. You could have simply came on and said yes Rozann was rarely on or talking to anyone. That simple. Instead you decide way late in the thread to go up against me. You have told me repeatedly if I need help just let you know, well that is all you needed to say to verify. So much for asking huh?
You said I lied, I asked you where? IF it is the Trr thing, I made a mistake and corrected it, NO BIGGIE.
You are now making a mountain out of a molehill, after you made sure to stay off the WES conversation.
I am not angry, as a matter of fact this last post you made amused me to the max. You actually put words in my mouth and said something I never said. Don't play innocent with me, I see thru you, and you know what? I am by FAR not the only one.
Instead of burning this bridge with me, you could have simply came on and agreed with what I was saying about the last eight months, simple as that.
You CHOSE the other road. Fine by me, I find I have lost nothing with you no longer a friend.
Now again, it doesnt matter now, if Rich doesnt believe I had personal problems and was not on any of the forums so be it. You let him keep believing it.

 

[Stardust]

I don't understand, Rozann. First you claim I was banned from TRR. Then in this very thread you retracted, admitting you did not know what you were talking about, but said my ban was just from their war room. Now you are inviting me into their war room.


And I distinctly remember in some very private conversations you asked to share with me about your life, that you asked for confidentiality, which I agreed to.
Now you are taking me to task for not telling the world the reasons for your recent absences; you yourself have implied in statements here on the board to personal reasons. Those reasons are covered by your request to me of confidentiality.

What is it you are trying to accomplish by these mutually exclusive assertions?

Totally sorry to say this but your whole post is just lame. I almost can't believe you wrote it.
I said you were banned, I recanted and said I was wrong about it. That is not saying that I don't know what I am talking about. Please quote for me where I said I did not know what I was talking about.
Actually I was half correct on the banning, you can still go on that forum just not in the war rooms because of whinny reasons.
I invited you to try to go into the war rooms, if they let you back in you have a lot to read LOL
Get it straight Lucille, don't jump on the band wagon because I made a mistake in my writing and then CORRECTED it.
Now onto the other half, re-read my post, correctly this time. I did not ask you to air my personal business, I asked you to confirm I was having trouble during that time and not on much during that time, NOT to elaborate on it.
Can you not tell the difference? I thought the first one or two times I said this that it was very clear. Rich was thinking that I was on and just not coming here until Wes was banned, YOU knew that I was not going really going anywhere on the internet as Wes did, as I did not talk to him either, but he is banned, so you are the OTHER person that knows this.
I REALLY see you for who you are. You could have simply came on and said yes Rozann was rarely on or talking to anyone. That simple. Instead you decide way late in the thread to go up against me. You have told me repeatedly if I need help just let you know, well that is all you needed to say to verify. So much for asking huh?
You said I lied, I asked you where? IF it is the Trr thing, I made a mistake and corrected it, NO BIGGIE.
You are now making a mountain out of a molehill, after you made sure to stay off the WES conversation.
I am not angry, as a matter of fact this last post you made amused me to the max. You actually put words in my mouth and said something I never said. Don't play innocent with me, I see thru you, and you know what? I am by FAR not the only one.
Instead of burning this bridge with me, you could have simply came on and agreed with what I was saying about the last eight months, simple as that.
You CHOSE the other road. Fine by me, I find I have lost nothing with you no longer a friend.
Now again, it doesnt matter now, if Rich doesnt believe I had personal problems and was not on any of the forums so be it. You let him keep believing it.
I will, as I said in my last post go on my merry way here on fauna, reading threads, seeing whats for sale ect.

One other thing, I hope you do not have the ability to change your post just in case I will copy it, wouldnt want you saying you never wrote it or its contents, as I have saved every conversation we have had.

 

[Stardust]

Well Lucille you unfortunately asked for this, you got it. I do know what I am talking about. Remember Rich I was trying to stop the thread, she came on at the end and questioned me and wrongful quoted me.
As I said about the banning I was half correct: She was removed from the war rooms. Since I have been asked to prove what I write here it is:

"Lucille was not banned from TRR at all. She was in fact removed from the war rooms due to a couple of factors. She would go and post in said war room and when attacked and called stupid or what not by another member who disagreed with her statement she either (1)Mass PM'ed the administrators and moderators crying about being attacked when it is well known this will happen in the war rooms. or (2) Mass email above mentioned moderators and administrators crying about it after her PM's were ignored. This goes back to if you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. She couldn't take it as she wears her emotions on her sleve and takes everything so personally. After being told there was nothing we as moderators or administrators could do in her plight she still managed to do the same after numourous warnings by the staff. So to lessen any headaches from a whining emotional basket case her account was modified and she was removed from the war rooms. She was properly notified via email of said modification at the email address she used to register her account at TRR. this is the official statement of the TRR staff on this matter as of 11/24/2005."

Brian C. Foster

 

[Stardust]

NOW can this thread end? Or must I still search for quotes and proof when I would rather be looking at the classifieds or catch up on some of the forums I like.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Or how about taking it private...... Just a thought

 

[Lucille]

Rozann: First you wrongfully said I was banned from the site; Then you realized that was not the truth, and if you will go back and read it, you published a second untruth, something to do with finances. Finally, after correcting yourself, you then invited me to the war rooms, knowing that was not possible.
You admitted to one untruth, and then you are playing little games that do not become you, by inviting me to the war room. I am sorry to see you so bitter on Thanksgiving, but you make those choices yourself....