Where is.....

[DAND]

Take it however you wish to. I evidently glanced over those posts and it didn't jingle my bells as being a problem so I did nothing about it. If you disagree with my assessment, then report those posts and perhaps one of the moderators will agree with you.

Now who is going to be the first to say I am being preferential to my long lost half brother Ritchie Rocket?

Allow me. Had I made any of those posts I'm sure it would jingled your bells. Heck you gave me a warnining point and moved a thread I started when you didn't even read it.

I did not read any such posts, so I cannot comment on them.

"Such posts" was what my thread was, all "such posts" quoted by the person were there for you to read. Odd that I would receive a warning point for something you didn't even read.

 

[jsrocket]

I had a group of baby broadheaded skinks that were that way. Every day I would find one of them dead, apparently from the entire group of them picking one of them and then killing it. Each day picking the next smallest or weakest one in the clutch until only a few of them remained. Seems awfully similar to me.

Now, Rich, while I am glad you see this situation for what it really is, I am not sure I appreciate being compared to a weak skink.

In fact, I am so offended, I demand that you issue yourself a warning. LOL

 

[ms_terese]

I had really thought this thread was dying down.

Go away for 36 hours or so to eat turkey and combat the shopping crowds on Black Friday, and all hell breaks loose. At least I scored a $20 DVD player.

I'm not really sure what to say. The progression and direction of this thread have left me feeling exasperated and discouraged.

Mr. Kellar, you made an excellent post.

 

[DThomas]

This really is sad. What is this, 3rd grade? I read those posts you all are complaining about and not a one of them would get warning points from me.

 

[WebSlave]

Allow me. Had I made any of those posts I'm sure it would jingled your bells. Heck you gave me a warnining point and moved a thread I started when you didn't even read it.



"Such posts" was what my thread was, all "such posts" quoted by the person were there for you to read. Odd that I would receive a warning point for something you didn't even read.

Yes, you are correct. I didn't HAVE to read your thread. All I needed to do was to look at the poll you created in it to know it was not BOI material. And no I did not read any further in that thread and had no desire to do so. It was deservedly moved to the HELL forum and you got a warning point for it.

Sorry you are experiencing such a strong case of paranoia here.

 

[Dr Owens]

This really is sad. What is this, 3rd grade? I read those posts you all are complaining about and not a one of them would get warning points from me.

I agree.

 

[WebSlave]

Wow. What a bunch of garbage. Missed this thread when it first started. As Rich mentioned in one of his posts there are actually some people who are still teetering on the fence, concerning the new and improved (subject to interpretation) FC, I was one of them. I think though, that this thread has made my mind up for me. Look at my posts, look at my warning points (zero), I participated in many of the threads, particularly last summer with the deluge of scammers, in those threads I never really got in any personal flame wars, nor trolled, and hardly used any vulgar language (if any at all). I rarely use vulgar language in real life, and so am the same way even on the "faceless" and "anonomous" internet. That said I do believe in being able to call a spade a spade. If someone is an obvious liar, scammer, idiot, Ass , I'm going to call them that (also in real life), that does not mean I have poor command of the english language, that I am an idiot who doesn't know any "real" words, or that someone who likes to be sickly sweet all the time, is better than me. That's why I'm jumping off the fence. Don't get me wrong I didn't condone some of Wes' antics, particularly in the end. I do however feel his "bull in a china shop" mentality, and particularly his tenacity, was what helped this site become so well at exposing bad guys.

Overall, I am troubled by the fact that due to this new and improved FC, as well as the fees, certain good people left, or imploded and were shown the door. People like Wes, Seamus, Wendy (and her husband, who's name escapes me at the moment) Brian, and several others, yet people like Neil, bud, bruce stephenson, and rocket get to "act" like they are the good guys. bruce goes out of his way to condone people who are convicted criminals, and was purposfully antagonistic to this site and Wes, by paying the memberships and/or fines for people who had nothing but disdain for this site and/ or Wes, at the same time he was trying to sound so innocent and noble. Then you got RRocket, one of the bottom of the barrel people who has nothing to add to this site and particularly this thread yet, he has half a dozen or more posts here that are nothing but, "why is this thread here, it's a waste" (yet feels it's okay for him to post willy nilly garbage), then he insults everybody, but is able to make it "clean".

Now I know Rich and others like to say that if these scumbags can clean their posts enough to comply with the new rules than so should you guys, but as Sam said to Frodo when they first met Stridor (Aragorn; The future King), and they were leary of him, and were trying to size him up, he said I think he's okay and someone mentioned that that is better than looking fair and feeling foul. That's how this site is starting to feel, IMHO. People with no morals, bad ethics, scammers, scummy, or whom have disdain for this site, or are just basically useless (as in the one who said he was done with this thread, yet added half a dozen posts after, and is at this time still reading the thread),[are foul] yet they are going through the trouble to disguise their posts.[feel fair]. The ones who were unable or unwilling to comply with the new FC [feel foul], were many good people with good morals and good intentions [are fair].
I suppose now I will get my first points, and it may even raise to the level of suspension (not trying to, but still a little unsure of the new rules) as I did call specific people unethical (bruce) and worthless (rocket; look at all his posts, including his alter ego garbage), like I said I've always called it like I see it, and I can't clean it up any more than that, as it will lose it's meaning, and effectiveness. I'm also not trying to make this one of those "okay, I'm leaving, I really am, bye............3 months and 100 posts later....no I'm really leaving this place, bye....." I intend to hang around, particularly the forums and the classifieds, just don't feel personally, that I want to pay the fee to participate in the "looks fair, feels foul" (IMO only) part, even though I was a volunteer donor before the fees started.

John,

I recall seeing that signature in your posts quite a while back:

Apparently, ethics and good morals are irrelevent on the BOI, even if a "bad guy" is a self admitted liar, thief, illegal shipper, etc. at least that's the view of some supposed good guys.

Obviously you are harboring some resentment about something on this site, but sorry I don't recall that particular incident.

Sorry to see that this pushed you over the edge, but I am afraid that I have to do what I have to do, regardless of the collateral damage. I fully expected quite a few people who's only real interest in this site (especially the BOI) was for the drama and entertainment that people such as Wes provided there. Just as I had to choose between quantity and quality when I instituted the paid membership requirement for posting on the BOI, I had to make a choice between this site being targeted more towards valuable information and opinions, and those people who were more interested in the drama and conflict that some people enjoyed engaging in.

Sorry but I disagree. NO ONE has to use derogatory labels to get their point across. Any one who feels that way is trying to judge everyone else by their own particular level of communication skills. If my decision to clean up this site means that those people who do not have the capability of expressing themselves without such a lower level command of the language and the ability to make themselves fully understood with intended impact fall by the wayside, then that is what I am willing to accept in order to accomplish my goals.

I want this site to be professional. I want it to be frequented my mature, responsible, and intelligent members. I want the crap out of it that some people can seemingly not do without using in their writing and am quite willing to lose those people who insist that it be in what they read here.

To think that this site will become "sickly sweet" with the changes I am now insisting on is, at best, naive and an opinion that is apparently based on little understanding of how mature, responsible, and professional discussions should be held.

As to the "good" people you mentioned who left, in some cases I would agree it is unfortunate, but the fact of the matter is that most of them chose to do so on their own due to the fact that they just felt that my changes at the time were wrong. In some respects, that decision they made boiled down to an ultimatum to me, which basically painted them into a corner. NONE of them have the experience in what I am doing here to be qualified to make such demands, in my opinion. So I have to admit I am a bit baffled by the hardlined stance they made in consideration of what and why they demanded of me what they did. As as them being right or wrong, who knows? Time will tell. That's the way it has been, and probably always will be in decisions I make where some people agree and other disagree.

Anyway, sorry to see you go, but everyone here is free to make their own choices about what they want out of the sites they visit and participate in.

Good luck!

 

[critical bill]

So what, now that Dennis is gone you guys need to find the next lowest guy on the totem pole to pick on?

I praise you for exposing the Roz situation, but you get a big thumbs down for not at least publically telling the Rocket to mind his freekin manners and knock his crap off.

I know I know...you'll say you didnt see his thread as insulting in anyway and thats just fine. I'll just say that this is the first and last time that I'll bring your dogs poop back to your door step and ring your bell to talk about it. Please keep them off my lawn.

 

[WebSlave]

I praise you for exposing the Roz situation, but you get a big thumbs down for not at least publically telling the Rocket to mind his freekin manners and knock his crap off.

I know I know...you'll say you didnt see his thread as insulting in anyway and thats just fine. I'll just say that this is the first and last time that I'll bring your dogs poop back to your door step and ring your bell to talk about it. Please keep them off my lawn.

Two of my three moderators agreed with me. Personally I just think you are pretending to be insulted simply wanting warning points to be filed against someone you have personal issues with. Thanks but no thanks. I don't have any reason to play your game with you.

And please let me know if there is any down side to your last statement. I have trouble seeing any myself. Perhaps it meant more to you then it did to me.

 

[Dr Owens]

you get a big thumbs down for not at least publically telling the Rocket to mind his freekin manners and knock his crap off.

Come on Chuck...are you serious? How often do people make rude comments to one another on this site, but do so without breaking the rules? It happens EVERYDAY! In fact, YOU do it all the time yourself (and I've got to hand it to you, you're getting better at doing it without getting yourself in trouble).

Personally I just think you are pretending to be insulted simply wanting warning points to be filed against someone you have personal issues with.

That's exactly what it sounds like...and believe me, Rich, Dennis, Ken, and myself are quite familiar with this routine. We hear this type of thing all the time.

 

[critical bill]

Two of my three moderators agreed with me. Personally I just think you are pretending to be insulted simply wanting warning points to be filed against someone you have personal issues with. Thanks but no thanks. I don't have any reason to play your game with you.

And please let me know if there is any down side to your last statement. I have trouble seeing any myself. Perhaps it meant more to you then it did to me.

I'm sorry but I wont be answering your questions. I'm not playing this game with you anymore either.

I didnt inform you in my earlier post, but I am on strike for 48 hours AGAIN. And its due in no small part to your rudeness and tolerance of another member being equally as rude to me.

If these were the old days and we were face to face in a public square I would demand satisfaction and challenge you to a duel.

Have a good weekend.

 

[Dr Owens]

Pertaining to the topic at hand...

Ok...so let's recap here...

• Rozann was fraudulent and deceptive about her intentions when starting this topic.
• Rozann lied about things that she accused Rich of saying in the past.
• Rozann continued to lie and say that she didn't have any ulterior motives even after she had been "exposed."
• Rozann then tried to play the martyr role rather than explain her actions.
  

Hmmmm...fraud, deceit, and lies. Sounds kind of like a scammer to me...

How many times have we seen Wes post statements such as this:

I can see NO reason at all to tolerate lies and deception. I can see NO reason at all to let those whom I am sure are practicing such get away with it.

I guess that Wes' firm (and well documented by his posts on this site) stance on this subject doesn't apply when the lies and deceit serve his own ends.


Wes also said the following in his email that was posted in this topic:

I have extreme dislike for hypocricy, especially from those with whom I have discussed such dislike.

Wow...if this isn't a glaring example of hypocrisy, then I don't know what is.

 

[WebSlave]

 

[reptilebreeder]

John,

I recall seeing that signature in your posts quite a while back:


Obviously you are harboring some resentment about something on this site, but sorry I don't recall that particular incident.

That "something" is the actions of the very people I mentioned in my previous post. Their M.O. is to tell all the bad guys, scammers, thieves, unethical people, to essentially always plead the 5th. That "they" don't have to answer to some "clique" on a website. They could care less whether they are any of the above, even when in fact they are.

Sorry but I disagree. NO ONE has to use derogatory labels to get their point across. Any one who feels that way is trying to judge everyone else by their own particular level of communication skills. If my decision to clean up this site means that those people who do not have the capability of expressing themselves without such a lower level command of the language and the ability to make themselves fully understood with intended impact fall by the wayside, then that is what I am willing to accept in order to accomplish my goals.

Just one of those agree to disagree things I guess. I mean you are right that no one HAS to, I just don't think it being "disguised" makes any difference.

Originally Posted by jsrocket
I await to see proof of your ability to wite[sic] down a coherent thought.

this seems to meet your definition of a higher command of the language. To me, and obviously some others, it is insulting. Just because I don't whitewash my comments, and would have simply stated "you're an idiot", does not mean rocket's command of the english language is superior to mine, it simply means I don't want to bother trying to disguise my insults/comments/opinions, I put them in the most straightforward terms so everyone understands what I mean, not just the people who like to embellish, conceal, or collegize their comments.

Anyway, sorry to see you go, but everyone here is free to make their own choices about what they want out of the sites they visit and participate in.

Good luck!

Well, as I noted in my previous post, I'm not leaving (everything), hopefully not to your chagrin :laugh:. Contrary to my join date, I've been here quite a long time...one of my first BOI posts..

Oh please, mark?? or whatever, give us a break.
I ordered 6 snakes (1 pair each of 3 different cultivars). One of the pairs of snakes I ordered was a pair of Amels. het for blizzard, he could only find a female so he was going to send the female het and a male blizzard. It took quite a while to get them shipped because here in CA the temperature would not cooperate. Finally got below 90 degrees and Rich and I made arrangements for the shipment, when I received it the next day, Rich enclosed a note saying the female het. did not look right, so he enclosed a female blizzard. So I got a pair of Blizzards in place of the pair of hets. for the same price. Why did I order from Rich in the first place? Because his reputation preceeds him. So I think your feeble attempts at slander won't fool anybody.
John

Posted At 23:59:24 11/01/2000 Ironically, it was a "Rich is a very bad" thread.

I love most of this site, the forums, and especially the classifieds placed by the members I respect. I fact, I also love the BOI, but am bowing out of the payed for BOI, simply because I feel that there are to many of the "seem fair, feel bad" people that will be jumping on the few to many left good guys, making the BOI innefective. If I'm wrong, the value will again be worth it to me.

 

[nicolai]

well weSeems only fitting...

Now, Rich, while I am glad you see this situation for what it really is, I am not sure I appreciate being compared to a weak skink.

In fact, I am so offended, I demand that you issue yourself a warning. LOL

Well at least 1 member out of all those that have posted on this thread came out happy in the end. With just a little taste of sarcasm thrown in to top to taunt the people that complained about him was a nice touch. I am surprised that no one took the bait as i completely feel he had hoped and retaliated. lets see if i got the numbers straight.

Unhappy= 8....Nicolai, Reptilebreeder(excellent post), Jimo(agreed with reptile breeders post), critical bill, clearwater reptiles, shrap (agreed with reptile breeders post), DanD, Ms. Terese (agreed with reptile breeders post).

Happy = 1.... JsRocket

I guess we are back to the clique thing applying here I guess. Since I am 6'5 310 lbs I get to be the biggest Broad head skink.
Before this ends up back at the "damned if i do/damned if I don't" route I would like to say that I do not expect you to change your mind on this rich as that would only lead us back to the humanity thing that was laid to rest. I am sure this thread will die away now that the decision is made and there is no chance of any changing. But one must wonder how many people copied posts from this thread to use at a later date when the rules get applied to them for the same kind of situation.

 

[Laura Fopiano]

I may have offered to donate to the return of Wes, but I am NOT a part of any gang and or conspiracy, nor am I laughing.
It's a truly sad day when people go at each other, in the name of another. Getting fined and suspended......for what!! I retract my offer of 50$ for Wes..........this just makes me sick!!!!!

 

[Dennis Hultman]

John and I are on the same page on almost every single issue that we have posted our opinions about on this site.

I would ask you John to reconsider this position.

I also love the BOI, but am bowing out of the payed for BOI, simply because I feel that there are to many of the "seem fair, feel bad" people that will be jumping on the few to many left good guys, making the BOI innefective. If I'm wrong, the value will again be worth it to me.

If you are gone, there will be one less good guy trying to make a difference.

 

[WebSlave]

I may have offered to donate to the return of Wes, but I am NOT a part of any gang and or conspiracy, nor am I laughing.
It's a truly sad day when people go at each other, in the name of another. Getting fined and suspended......for what!! I retract my offer of 50$ for Wes..........this just makes me sick!!!!!

I really don't know what you are talking about. The only person I am aware of getting fined and suspended because of this thread is Rozann. That was for profanity, which is a black and white violation of the rules. I can also suspend her for being an obvious troll, which is pretty obvious to most people, but I hesitated from doing so until the full picture would be painted. It is my opinion that Wes orchestrated this whole thing, and used Rozann as the patsy. If anyone cannot see this then I don't believe they are putting their best effort to read what this thread is actually portraying.

The "gang" I am referring to is, in my opinion, some people external to this site and not participating within this thread. There is at least one quote by Rozann showing she has been in correspondence with another person who is on record as having a real chip on his shoulder about this site.

What exactly are you sick over? That Wes almost orchestrated a bunch of people to donate $1,000 for his return? Or that Rozann could have been manipulated as she was? Or that perhaps Rozann wasn't manipulated at all and decided to blatantly lie all throughout this thread?

There is really no need to retract your offer of $50 for Wes's return. I withdrew that offer when it became obvious what was really going on. Wes is not coming back. Period.

 

[WebSlave]

John and I are on the same page on almost every single issue that we have posted our opinions about on this site.

I would ask you John to reconsider this position.




If you are gone, there will be one less good guy trying to make a difference.

I've heard this sort of thing before. People saying they are leaving because they believe the BOI will be ineffective. In many cases, I believe it is a good example of an attempted self fullfilling prophecy. If that is what you want, your leaving will most certainly help it to become that way. So make that choice if you want to.

I had LOTS of people complaining about the BOI before it was a paid member only forum. Tons of complaints about the amount of garbage being posted there. Yeah there were a LOT of posts being made there, and that was part of the problem. Many of the posts weren't worth the space they were taking up on my server. It was pretty much a full time chore policing it all to try to keep the garbage down. Warning points were a daily occurrence and false registrations to post there were likely several per day. How many times were members outed who were incarnations of someone who had just been booted out the previous day? Lots! Remember Bob Sloan? So in order to try to cut out most of that crap, I instituted a toll gate to do so. But then people had THAT to complain about. There was just no other feasible manner available to institute an even semi effective positive identification system. Honestly I had people suggest that I get phone numbers from all new registrants and then call them on the phone. All for free, of course, like I should be willing to spend my time for that effort and my dime for the phone call. Thanks, but no thanks!

Then people were still complaining about the types of behavior that people site wide were exhibiting in relation to the bickering, derogatory slurs, and down right meanness and belittling of some members toward others. There was a poll on the BOI asking about doing "ruthless enforcement of the rules", or just let it go as a free for all. Of those people even giving a crap enough to vote, it was overwhelmingly in favor of the ruthless enforcement. So yes, I decided to crack down on enforcing the rules, when meant cracking down on the rule breakers as well. And still the complaints roll in, this time about some obtuse psychological voodoo about how some members can be bad yet act good and good members can act bad.

Sorry, but to me and the staff here, you ARE how you ACT here. That is the only criteria we have to judge you by. If you act bad, you are bad, based on the fact that my criteria for judging you has to be limited by how you act in relation to the rules made here in order to try to keep things civil and socially acceptable to ALL members visiting this site. I cannot judge someone by what they did to be labeled a bad guy in some external transaction, because I do not have some crystal ball to tell me what the actual truth of the matter is. I have stated from the very beginning of creating the BOI that I will NOT be a judge in such matters. In many conflicts, one of the parties will be flat out lying. It is not, and will not be, my job to determine who is doing the lying. Both sides in any argument or conflict must decide to post their own side of the story, along with anyone else willing to chime in with their relevant experiences or opinions, and people reading the thread have to make their own decisions about what to believe or not believe. I am NOT going to say "Yup, Joe Blow is a bad guy, therefore he is banned from this site". That is not the way the BOI was designed to work. It is not the way that the BOI is going to BECOME, either. All I can do is to judge those people how they ACT in those threads about a bad guy (or anyone, for that matter), and use that as criteria concerning the desirability of keeping them as an active member on this site, able to interface and correspond with other members. THAT is the job of myself and the moderators. To judge them in how they ACT here.

If someone feels the site is a failure because of their own misguided opinion of what this site should be for, I really can't do anything about that. Nor would I want to. All I intend to do is to provide a place for the information to be provided, with the restrictions in place to try to keep the providers of information as credible as possible, and providing the information and opinions in a manner that is consistent with presenting a mature, professional and socially acceptable discussion. My responsibility ends at that point.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I've heard this sort of thing before. People saying they are leaving because they believe the BOI will be ineffective. In many cases, I believe it is a good example of an attempted self fullfilling prophecy. If that is what you want, your leaving will most certainly help it to become that way. So make that choice if you want to.

I had LOTS of people complaining about the BOI before it was a paid member only forum. Tons of complaints about the amount of garbage being posted there. Yeah there were a LOT of posts being made there, and that was part of the problem. Many of the posts weren't worth the space they were taking up on my server. It was pretty much a full time chore policing it all to try to keep the garbage down. Warning points were a daily occurrence and false registrations to post there were likely several per day. How many times were members outed who were incarnations of someone who had just been booted out the previous day? Lots! Remember Bob Sloan? So in order to try to cut out most of that crap, I instituted a toll gate to do so. But then people had THAT to complain about. There was just no other feasible manner available to institute an even semi effective positive identification system. Honestly I had people suggest that I get phone numbers from all new registrants and then call them on the phone. All for free, of course, like I should be willing to spend my time for that effort and my dime for the phone call. Thanks, but no thanks!

Then people were still complaining about the types of behavior that people site wide were exhibiting in relation to the bickering, derogatory slurs, and down right meanness and belittling of some members toward others. There was a poll on the BOI asking about doing "ruthless enforcement of the rules", or just let it go as a free for all. Of those people even giving a crap enough to vote, it was overwhelmingly in favor of the ruthless enforcement. So yes, I decided to crack down on enforcing the rules, when meant cracking down on the rule breakers as well. And still the complaints roll in, this time about some obtuse psychological voodoo about how some members can be bad yet act good and good members can act bad.

Sorry, but to me and the staff here, you ARE how you ACT here. That is the only criteria we have to judge you by. If you act bad, you are bad, based on the fact that my criteria for judging you has to be limited by how you act in relation to the rules made here in order to try to keep things civil and socially acceptable to ALL members visiting this site. I cannot judge someone by what they did to be labeled a bad guy in some external transaction, because I do not have some crystal ball to tell me what the actual truth of the matter is. I have stated from the very beginning of creating the BOI that I will NOT be a judge in such matters. In many conflicts, one of the parties will be flat out lying. It is not, and will not be, my job to determine who is doing the lying. Both sides in any argument or conflict must decide to post their own side of the story, along with anyone else willing to chime in with their relevant experiences or opinions, and people reading the thread have to make their own decisions about what to believe or not believe. I am NOT going to say "Yup, Joe Blow is a bad guy, therefore he is banned from this site". That is not the way the BOI was designed to work. It is not the way that the BOI is going to BECOME, either. All I can do is to judge those people how they ACT in those threads about a bad guy (or anyone, for that matter), and use that as criteria concerning the desirability of keeping them as an active member on this site, able to interface and correspond with other members. THAT is the job of myself and the moderators. To judge them in how they ACT here.

If someone feels the site is a failure because of their own misguided opinion of what this site should be for, I really can't do anything about that. Nor would I want to. All I intend to do is to provide a place for the information to be provided, with the restrictions in place to try to keep the providers of information as credible as possible, and providing the information and opinions in a manner that is consistent with presenting a mature, professional and socially acceptable discussion. My responsibility ends at that point.

Rich, I understand your position. I was just asking John not to leave.