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Which Fool Should I Vote For? Bush or Kerry?

Which Fool Should We Vote For?

  • Bush

    Votes: 48 48.0%
  • Kerry

    Votes: 32 32.0%
  • Nader

    Votes: 5 5.0%
  • They all Suck Bigtime!!!!!!

    Votes: 15 15.0%

  • Total voters
    100
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Bud,

Yet again you have proven my point. I don't have to defend my hobby to you, and I'm sorry that it doesn't live up to your danger/popularity standards. I can safely say that I'll be around to look up far longer than you.

The Election...

I'm respectfully backing out of this thread. I don't have the energy or the time to continue sitting in front of the computer arguing with people who, like myself, :argue: are not going to give ground. It has been interesting.

Mark
 
Bud, you should really try and educate yourself before you go spouting off about things you know nothing about. MOST new comets and asteroids ARE discovered by laymen using backyard telescopes. And as far as things like that not being dangerous enough, you are at least 1000 times more likely to be killed by an impact event than you are by a snake bite. Mainly because impacts on a grand scale such as the one 65 mya responsible for the extinction of 2/3's of ALL life on the planet, kill MUCH more than a snake ever could.

And I know you're not comparing Kerry's ability to fend for himself to Bush's!!! Has Bush ever even had a job that was based on anything of merit other than his last name?

Military- Let's see, Kerry went to Viet Nam and recieved several awards. Bush, on the other hand was in the ANG and as far as we can tell may have been AWOL part of that time. But those records are now "missing." How nice.

Bill of rights- Bush backs an amendment ADDING DISCRIMINATION to freaking constitution! Ken, I know not of what you speak about Kerry, give me some info.

Concrete facts gentlemen. Let's try and talk about stuff from say 2000 forward or at least from the history of the candidates. Backing slavery 60 plus years ago doesn't sway my vote one little bit. And just what is wrong w/ clean air anyway?
 
There's going to be this and that and that and that, yet you really have no concrete, logical reasoning.
It seems you're confusing us with the current generation of libocrats. Critical thinking isn't exactly their forté.

Okay, so you're saying it's unjust of me to bring up the past, although I could've sworn it was you who touched on Scopes and slavery. Let's touch on the present, then... it still holds true that the Democratic party not only condones, but openly embraces racial and sexual discrimination.

Ken, for what is that big military compensating? I believe much of that money would be better off spent in medical and scientific research. The priorities of this country have been backwards for far too long.
I don't suppose you've taken note of the state of world affairs over the past decade. Nor, do I suppose, you've ever donned a uniform in service of our country.

A deterrent for committing such crimes would be far more effective than simply treating it as it doesn't exist.
You mean to tell me that there's no punishment already in place for crimes such as assault, murder, etc??? The horror of it all.

Maybe some day conservatives will realize just how crappy life would be without taxes.
No one here's disputing that taxes are a necessary evil. What's in dispute are unnecessarily high tax rates and tax & spend mentality that's being used to fund a bloated government.
 
Ken, do you not see my posts or are you just choosing not to answer the questions?

What part of government is bloated?

If the government is bloated and the military is still the largest expense of said government, how do you reconcile the two?

And here's one for ya: Can you actually say you're proud to have Bush as the leader of this country? I know I can't stand to look at him. I think he's either an empty-headed puppet, or worse, someone who has no problem what-so-ever lying to the american people to achieve his goals (goals which make little to no sense).

Can you remember another president who stood in front of the nation at a press conference and chastized a reporter for not asking a question from the list? I know I can't. And to me much of what Bush does and stands for reeks of the Communist state I was brought up to loath and fear.
 
I wasn't going to add to this thread, but in light of a recent post, I feel that I can't help but do it anyway.

Bud, this is in no way meant to be too nasty toward you, but in all seriousness, surely you can't read back over your posts and think that anyone in his/her right mind could find them to be valid. You attack Mark for his fondness of astronomy. How childish is that? You've said it yourself, you are much older than he is, and much older than myself, so why is it that both of us and many others can look at your post(s) and not feel anything but pity for you? I know you are more intelligent than that. To attack someone about a hobby that in NO way has anything to do with you, or is in ANY way destructive to ANYONE else, is simply sad. He mentioned your self envenomation because to him, me, and many, many other people, that seems a little crazy. I'm not going to get into it here, but if you wish to try to counter him with something credible, you should probably try to find something other than his astronomy hobby. That'd be like you saying "Ohhh, you collect stamps? What a looser!!" In fact, if he collected stamps, I'm pretty sure that's the gist of what your responce would have been. So like you said, keep it on the election. Maybe Mark's mentioning of your SI was to point out the degree to which your perception of reality might be a bit skewed by your rathey riske hobby. Also, since he and I are roommates and both take part in caring for venomous snakes, maybe he sees the potential danger there for ourselves if someone such as yourself were to die from you own SI, and help further a federal attack on venomous keeping. You've said it yourself, it's not too far off in the future. State by state, more and more laws are being put into place. Honestly though, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with your SI if you weren't so irresponsible as to RECOMMEND SI to other people! That, my friend, is plain stupid.

Anyway, I've about talked myself out on that issue. Like you said, keep it on the election, which Kerry will (rightly) win. I know I'll be voting for him.
-Chance
 
Let me say that I hate George W. Bush. Before you vote for George Bush let me tell you my story:

Before Bush got in the white house everything was great.
I had a job, a family, plenty of money in the bank, power and I felt like a real winner. After Bush got in power, I lost my job. Now as if this wasn't bad enough, when I lost my job, there was not one United States government benefit there for me or my family!

Not only this but both of my sons gave their lives in an unnessary war, just so Bush and his cronies could get cheap oil. After the deaths of my sons, I lost my home and found myself homeless. Very angered at the Bush team, I tried to fight Bush and his right wing agenda and guess what happened then. My little hut that I moved into was raided and I was dragged off to jail!
People please hear my story before you reelect George Bush.
Please vote for Kerry!

Yours truly,
Saddam Hussein
 
You Americans make me laugh..READ YOUR OWN HISTORY..Your country and constitution was based on Freedom of Speech and the SEPARATION of CHURCH and State, freedoms that the First Americans didn"t have in Europe and elsewhere..REMEMBER " The Grand Experiment" that was the United States (1776)....Bush is sending your whole world back 200 years.....the sad thing is that if Bush, with his Religious Right policies, remain in power, my "Pussy" country(Canada) will soon follow in washing away freedoms that took hundrds of years to establish.
 
my "Pu$$y" country(Canada) will soon follow in washing away freedoms that took hundrds of years to establish.
Let me know when you all actually have the right to bear arms
 
Re: ah mark shows his colors a red star?

bud mierkey said:
Not too many people can survive deadly snake bites with no treatment.
Thats all I need is to be unique not a run of the mill amateur.
[/B]

Hilarious. Am I to infer that you consider yourself "not a run of the mill amateur" because you were sloppy or stupid enough to get nailed by a hot? That's ripe. I suppose that would make Roy Horn a super-expert since his tiger all but ripped off his head? :rofl:

If you're so bent on being unique, I would consider your inability to spell to be more impressive. There's nothing more entertaining than an older male telling them there youngins 'bout how things are as he writes at an eighth grade level.
 
The Nine Lies of Fahrenheit 9/11

Monday, July 12, 2004
The Nine Lies of Fahrenheit 9/11


Fahrenheit Lie #1

National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice is depicted in the movie telling a reporter, “Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11.”
The scene deceptively shows the Administration directly blaming Saddam and his regime for the attacks on 9/11 by taking her comments out of context. Now read the entire statement made by Ms. Rice to the reporter:
“Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11. It’s not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved in 9/11. But if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that led people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York.” (CBS News, November 28, 2003 Interview)
Fahrenheit Lie #2

In the film, Moore leads viewers to believe that members of bin Laden’s family were allowed to exit the country after the attacks without questioning by authorities. o The September 11th commission, on the other hand, reported that 22 of the 26 people on the flight that took most of the bin Laden family out of the country were interviewed and found to be innocent of suspicion. (Sumana Chatterjee and David Golstein, “Analyzing ‘Fahrenheit 9/11’: It’s Accurate To A Degree,” Seattle Times, 07/05/04)

The commission reported that “each of the flights we have studied was investigated by the FBI and dealt with in a professional manner prior to its departure.”
Fahrenheit Lie #3

Moore claims that James Bath, a friend of President Bush from his time with the Texas Air National Guard, might have funneled bin Laden money to an unsuccessful Bush oil-drilling firm called Arbusto Energy.

Bill Allison, managing editor for the Center for Public Integrity (an independent watchdog group in Washington, D.C.), on the other hand, said, “We looked into bin Laden money going to Arbusto, and we never found anything to back that up,” (Sumana Chatterjee and David Golstein, “Analyzing ‘Fahrenheit 9/11’: It’s Accurate To A Degree,” Seattle Times, 07/05/04)
Fahrenheit Lie #4

The movie claims that the Bush administration “supported closing veterans hospitals.” o “The Department of Veterans Affairs did propose closing seven hospitals in areas with declining populations where the hospitals were underutilized, and whose veterans could be served by other hospitals” (Dave Kopel, Independence Institute, “Fifty-nine Deceits In Fahrenheit 9/11,” http://i2i.org/ Accessed, 07/11/04)

But Moore’s film fails to mention that the Department also proposed building new hospitals in areas where needs were growing, and also proposed building blind rehabilitation centers and spinal cord injury centers (News Release, Department of Veterans Affairs, www.va.gov, 10/24/03)
Fahrenheit Lie #5

Conspiracy theories abound about the reasons for the War on Terror, but none is more outlandish than the one propagandized in Moore’s film: that the Afghan war was fought solely to enable the Unocal company to build an oil pipeline (the plan for which was abandoned by the company in 1998).

Moore “suggests that one of the first official acts of Afghan President Hamid Karzai … was to help seal a deal for … Unocal to build an oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the Indian Ocean. It alleges that Karzai had been a Unocal consultant.” (emphasis added) (Sumana Chatterjee and David Golstein, “Analyzing ‘Fahrenheit 9/11’: It’s Accurate To A Degree,” Seattle Times, 07/05/04)

Unocal spokesman, Barry Lane, says unequivocally, “Karzai was never, in any capacity, an employee, consultant or a consultant of a consultant,” and Unocal never had a plan to build a Caspian Sea pipeline. (Sumana Chatterjee and David Golstein, “Analyzing ‘Fahrenheit 9/11’: It’s Accurate To A Degree,” Seattle Times, 07/05/04)

Moore mentions that the Taliban visited Texas while President Bush was governor to discuss a potential project with Unocal.

While Moore implies that then-Governor Bush met with the Taliban, no such meeting occurred. The Taliban delegation did, however, meet with the Clinton Administration on this visit. (Matt Labash, “Un-Moored From Reality; Fahrenheit 9/11 Connects Dots That Aren’t There,” Weekly Standard, July 5-July 12 Issue)
Fahrenheit Lie #6

Even readily available figures are exaggerated for effect in Fahrenheit 9/11. The claims have a basis in reality, making them believable, but are false nonetheless. ü In the film, Moore asks Craig Unger, author of House of Bush, House of Saud, “How much money do the Saudis have invested in America, roughly?” to which Unger responds, “Uh, I’ve heard figures as high as $860 billion.”

The Institute for Research: Middle Eastern Policy reports that worldwide Saudi investment approximated $700 billion – a figure much lower than Unger alleges the Saudi government to have invested in the U.S. (Tanya C. Hsu, Institute For Research: Middle Eastern Policy, “The United States Must Not Neglect Saudi Arabian Investment,” www.irmep.org, Accessed 07/11/04)

The Institute reports that 60 percent of that $700 billion – roughly $420 billion, less than half of what Unger “heard” – was actually invested in the United States by the Saudi government.
Fahrenheit Lie #7

“Moore’s film suggests that [President] Bush has close family ties to the bin Laden family – principally through [President] Bush’s father’s relationship with the Carlyle Group, a private investment firm. The president’s father, George H.W. Bush, was a senior adviser to the Carlyle Group’s Asian affiliate until recently; members of the bin Laden family – who own one of Saudi Arabia’s biggest construction firms – had invested $2 million in a Carlyle Group fund. Bush Sr. and the bin Ladens have since severed ties with the Carlyle Group, which in any case has a bipartisan roster of partners, including Bill Clinton’s former SEC chairman Arthur Levitt. The movie quotes author Dan Briody claiming that the Carlyle Group ‘gained’ from September 11 because it owned United Defense, a military contractor. Carlyle Group spokesman Chris Ullman notes that United Defense holds a special distinction among U.S. defense contractors that is not mentioned in Moore’s movie: the firm’s $11 billion Crusader artillery rocket system developed for the U.S. Army is one of the only weapons systems canceled by the Bush administration.” (Dave Kopel, Independence Institute, “Fifty-nine Deceits In Fahrenheit 9/11,” http://i2i.org/ Accessed, 07/11/04)

“There is another famous investor in Carlyle whom Moore does not reveal: George Soros. But the fact that the anti-Bush billionaire [Soros] has invested in Carlyle would detract from Moore’s simplistic conspiracy theory.” (Dave Kopel, Independence Institute, “Fifty-nine Deceits In Fahrenheit 9/11,” http://i2i.org/ Accessed, 07/11/04)
Fahrenheit Lie #8

Not revealing relevant facts is dishonest enough. But to paint the Bush Administration as sympathetic and friendly to the Taliban prior to September 11, is not only dishonest, but maliciously so. ü Moore shows film of a March 2001 visit to the United States by a Taliban delegation, claiming that the Administration “welcomed” the Taliban official, Sayed Hashemi, “to tour the United States to help improve the image of the Taliban.”

But the Administration did not welcome the Taliban with open arms. In fact, the State Department rejected the Taliban’s claim that it had complied with U.S. requests to isolate bin Laden.

To demonstrate even further the Administration’s contempt for the Taliban and its illegitimacy, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher – on the day of the terrorist regime’s visit – said, “We don’t recognize any government in Afghanistan.”
Fahrenheit Lie #9

Moore does more than simply downplay the threat posed to the U.S. by the former Hussein regime in Iraq. He goes so far as to assert that Saddam “never threatened to attack the United States.”

If by “attack the United States” one interprets this claim to mean that Saddam never threatened to send troops to the United States, then Mr. Moore has a point. ü But Saddam Hussein clearly sought to attack the United States within his own sphere of influence, even though he didn’t have the resources to attack U.S. soil from his side of the world:

On November 15, 1997, “the main propaganda organ for the Saddam regime, the newspaper Babel (which was run by Saddam Hussein’s son Uday), ordered: ‘American and British interests, embassies, and naval ships in the Arab region should be the targets of military operations and commando attacks by Arab political forces.’” (Dave Kopel, Independence Institute, “Fifty-nine Deceits In Fahrenheit 9/11,” http://i2i.org/ Accessed, 07/11/04)

In addition, “Iraqi forces fired, every day, for 10 years, on the aircraft that patrolled the no-fly zones and staved off further genocide in the north and south of the country,” (Source: New York Times, 12/1/03).

Saddam Hussein also provided safe haven to terrorists who killed Americans, like Abu Nidal; funded suicide bombers in Israel who certainly killed Americans; and ran the Iraqi police, which plotted to assassinate former President George Bush.
 
chas*e said:
the sad thing is that if Bush, with his Religious Right policies, remain in power, my "Pussy" country(Canada) will soon follow in washing away freedoms that took hundrds of years to establish.

That would not be a problem. I'm sure you would feel right at home in France.
 
dana williams the laugh is on you

I have a buddy named dana williams but he is much smarter than you.
Go and pick on spelling it gets you nowhere at all .
you wrote--

Hilarious. Am I to infer that you consider yourself "not a run of the mill amateur" because you were sloppy or stupid enough to get nailed by a hot? That's ripe. I suppose that would make Roy Horn a super-expert since his tiger all but ripped off his head?

If you're so bent on being unique, I would consider your inability to spell to be more impressive. There's nothing more entertaining than an older male telling them there youngins 'bout how things are as he writes at an eighth grade level.
 
Your forum username: bud mierkey

Your sig reads: bud merkey

I may not be as smart as your pal, sir. But I do implore you to be careful around those hots. It looks like the venom is indeed taking its toll.
 
I hit enter to soon dana

dana,
you seem to think I care if you don't like my spelling?
you don't seem to understand at all the meaning of my post
to your young liberal tin shed buddy.

I can survive a bite from a black mamba and have modified my body to do so at will at my pleasure!
so dana its not a sloppy act of careless handling.
And far from a run of the mill amateur fool that gets tagged and nearly dies hahaha!.
you might spell better but your far from impressing me with any of your dribble.
Insted of joining in on your lost cause with your tin shed buddy.
Stick to the TOPIC and try not to get mad when older wiser
people speak from decades of watching the political side shows.
The typical fresh from college kid has been groomed by the typical liberal college professors.
He will learn soon enough whats real and whats fantasy!

bush will win again then I will laugh at your wasted typing!

if you guys want to argue go to the hell forum.
 
Re: Ah a youngsters opinion typical.

bud mierkey said:
mark,
I see your a youngster when youve been around as long as me you will wise up.
This crap is nothing more than a political slam before a election.

Fahrenheit 911 The temp that stupidity happens!

so mark in 20 years or so I hope you wise up.
most 20 year olds don't have a clue till they live a while longer.
don't be angry you don't know any better.
I was once in my 20's .
That was a long time ago



.:rofl: :rofl:

What exactly did the above post have to do with the topic, Rip Van Winkle? I don't see anything political here, just diarrhea from some old curmudgeon trying to discredit someone's view just because he's younger.

Tell us, Confucius, just how wise can one truly be when he thinks wisdom directly correlates with age? Also, how would you know what the political climate is like in college when you obviously never attended one?

Despite how much you'd like to believe otherwise, I've been an independent voter for 15 years. People who tow the party line on either side are just moths to the flame. You can go down your ballot and check off all the Rs and the Ds. I'll vote for candidates.

Admittedly, your choice of candidate seems perfect for you. I bet those hots will never catch you "unawares."
 
no dana

I made the point he was young and his opinion reflected that.
Then he made some comment about SI.
You ever hear the term young and gullable.
(99% of all college professors are liberal demoncrats.
They try to mold the young minds into their way of thinking .
then the students graduate and get away from the liberal
professors and face the real world finding out they were lied to.
how come the majority of them wise up and become conservative?
The answer is they GROW older and see the real world not the one dictated to them at college!
 
Maybe some day conservatives will realize just how crappy life would be without taxes.

I'd like to try it for a change. I'm tired of paying taxes of which I see (if lucky) 10% of the equal value in benefits. Roads are <font color=red>[**censored**]</font>. Military is ill used. Waste and laziness are promoted via welfare (both for corporations and private citizens). Frankly I'm fed up with government interference in my life, fire all the politicians and make them get jobs or starve. The massive die off would clean up the gene pool.

Kerry wishes to protect us and take care of us through a welfare state (how better to secure votes than by making everyone dependent upon your social programs for survival). Bush wishes to protect us by taking away our freedoms (patriot act and the neo-nazi tactics of the pentagon/administration leaders) to protect the interests of the rich.

Here is what I'd like to see from a president. "Elect me and I'll leave you alone to make it or fail in your life on your own merits." Frankly I don't see how two rich spoiled jerks (one married into it, the other was born to money) can connect with me or my needs.
 
Kerry wishes to protect us and take care of us through a welfare state (how better to secure votes than by making everyone dependent upon your social programs for survival). Bush wishes to protect us by taking away our freedoms (patriot act and the neo-nazi tactics of the pentagon/administration leaders) to protect the interests of the rich.

I almost agree w/ this other than the fact that Kerry won't really be able to change much w/ Congress the way it is. Bush can pretty push any agenda he wants (Patriot Act), which terrifies me. I'm not 100% happy w/ Kerry either, but he is definately the lesser of two evils.

Can anyone actually say they are proud to have George Bush as the leader of the free world. Would you want that man representing you in a time of crisis? Hell, would you want him representing you in a simple debate. Many people will vote for Bush in this election. But I doubt as many people will be voting for "Bush" as much as they are voting Republican. He is just not an acceptable leader of this country. IMHO
 
I almost agree w/ this other than the fact that Kerry won't really be able to change much w/ Congress the way it is.

I think that says it all. We (as a collective whole) are looking for a political leader that will be ineffective enough to not screw our lives up. Not that we can get someone to actually improve things (like being a leader), just be weak enough that nothing will happen. :D
 
Well, the best we can hope for is Kerry to win and then Edwards to somehow become President. He strikes me as an honest person who really wants to do good. But, I honestly FEAR Bush. I think he is the ultimate puppet for the extreme right and the wealthy. I think his policies will do actual harm to this country. Harm that very well may change the way we live in the future. Harm that will undermine our strength as a nation (not militarily but idealistically), harm our middle class, and harm our education system beyond what has already been done to it. Kerry at worst will do no harm, and at best, undo some the things Bush has managed to do.
 
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