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Why do people....... More.....

Gregg,
I checked out your website. I was going to email you regarding your animals. I keep some monocle cobras, rattlers, and bothrops. I have kept different types but those are the main species that I keep as "pets." My email adress is: [email protected] if you would more info in regards.
 
Is that the forum we are in??...LOL. I just saw it in the "latest discussion" area and followed it in.
 
dinos and tigers and hots, oh my

fine i can go off topic too
look who shows up at my house for dinner every nite
 

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Gregg M said:
Being content in a location where the temp is suitable??? That is instinctive....
Scratching at the cage when it sees you is also a learned behavior triggered by instinct...... No animal wants to be confined to a particular location so when it sees you, it sees an out...... As much as you want to think it wants to be with you, it is silly to truely believe that is the case..... It instinctivly knows that it should not be confined..... It is unnatural for a reptile, or any animal, to be caged..... These actions are driven by instinct, not emotions towards its keeper...... I will repeat this again, reptiles do not have the parts of the brain to feel or control emotions......

Yes, being content in an appropriate environment is 'instinctive'. I never claimed that it was otherwise. And if the animal instinctively knows it shouldn't be confined (That's a complex idea if ever there was one) wouldn't it stop seeking a way out of confinement when it discovers that the outside is unsuitable in terms of environment - what if outside is cold, it's bright and it does not contain food?

And I certainly didn't say that my geckos 'want to be with me' ... but they certainly ARE capable of, as I stated, being aware of the difference between me sitting at my computer, a visitor sitting at my computer and nobody sitting at my computer - and of behaving according to that distinction. To me, that implies more knowledge of the outside world than a mere machine.

I also never claimed that the -geckos- feel complex emotions. I do believe they feel simplistic emotions, perhaps on a level with a newborn baby. Newborn baby humans do not show complex emotions - they express need, fear and preference and cannot control any of those... but nobody says that humans lack the capacity to feel emotion.

On an odder side note, with personal experience:

I have a juvenile, homebred gecko, Keid. Keid is very 'eyes-focused' - if I look in the vivarium at her (or if her 'daddy' - our roommate who was home when she hatched, looks in at her) she will move towards the eyes. Now, that seems... extremely maladaptive in terms of instinct. Moving TOWARDS a predator? Heck, she'll let us open the viv door and keep moving forwards towards those eyes. On the other hand, she will NOT do it for my husband, nor for strangers. So, to me, that implies that she's 'decided' (for lack of a better word) that roommate and I are 'not predators' ... which implies a great deal of awareness of difference between human faces and an ability to override her instinct to avoid eyes when it comes to particular not-predators. Roommate and I, incidentally, are NOT the only people who feed the geckos. Husband also feeds them.

Celaeno, my Tremper Albino female, is protective over her eggs. I know when she's laid them because she's lying on top of a mound of substrate in her humid hide - and she DOES attempt to protect them from me when I go to collect them. I don't believe she 'loves' the eggs - but she certainly seems to 'miss' them when I've put them into the incubator. She spends an inordinate amount of time digging and looking for them, but does not pile the substrate back up as I'd expect if she were protecting a nest -site-.

And Alya, one of my patternless males, will come out of the open door of his vivarium onto my arm more readily if I'm singing or talking than if I'm silent. No clue at all why that might be - I know they're not deaf, so I can't explain why they'd move towards a source of sound, especially since I don't THINK I sound like a cricket.

I know they don't 'love' me - they see my hands as potential predators in many cases, as sources of warmth in others. They may see my eyes as a point of interest. My voice can act as an attractant. I'm certainly not a potential mate nor a potential rival.

But they certainly do have their own unique personalities and preferences, and that's why I found myself feeling a lot more affection for THEM than I'd expected. Everything I'd read before I got them implied that they weren't more than little biological machines. Everything I've experienced since ... they're certainly little characters, that's for sure.
 
Tripple H Herps said:
True,
I currently have no big cats. I just don't have the space or time right now. I used to own some. Nothing as big as a tiger, however I got to work with some that a friend had. If you want to check out some shows like in NC or SC, there is a rescue group with a pet tiger there as well.QUOTE]

Friend of mine in California owns a lion, though he's currently housed at a facility more suited to keeping a large male lion than the typical residence. I'd love to meet him. I'd also love, someday, to own one of the smaller exotic cats - I love servals, particularly.

Wish I were close enough to go to any of the herp/etc shows in the States - but it's a pretty long commute *grins*.

Incidentally, what ARE rattlesnakes like to keep? I've had the one too-close-for-comfort contact with one that I didn't get a good look at, and one experience with a little grey prairie rattler coiled up somewhere out northwest of Albuquerque - he was a beautiful little thing, completely unperturbed by a group of stompy humans coming up close to him (though I'm glad my aunt didn't act on her assumption that he was a -dead- rattlesnake and try picking him up just because he didn't move at first). Do they show any particularly interesting behaviours in captivity? Do they show any sign of recognizing particular people who feed them?

I don't think I'd ever keep a venomous snake, but that's more because I do like to be able to have some contact with my animals, even if it's mostly on their terms (Coming out onto my arm, for whatever reason that runs through their little gecko minds, for example), and though I've seen amazing footage of a six-year-old child somewhere in India freehandling a very large, not-surgically-altered cobra, I don't think it's something I'd like to try for myself.
 
Friend of mine in California owns a lion, though he's currently housed at a facility more suited to keeping a large male lion than the typical residence. I'd love to meet him. I'd also love, someday, to own one of the smaller exotic cats - I love servals, particularly.
-Servals are amazing cats, typically freindly and VERY active. Its like a house cat on speed...lol

Wish I were close enough to go to any of the herp/etc shows in the States - but it's a pretty long commute *grins*.
-LOL, didn't even look at your location. Yeah its certainly a drive/swim.

Incidentally, what ARE rattlesnakes like to keep? I've had the one too-close-for-comfort contact with one that I didn't get a good look at, and one experience with a little grey prairie rattler coiled up somewhere out northwest of Albuquerque - he was a beautiful little thing, completely unperturbed by a group of stompy humans coming up close to him (though I'm glad my aunt didn't act on her assumption that he was a -dead- rattlesnake and try picking him up just because he didn't move at first). Do they show any particularly interesting behaviours in captivity? Do they show any sign of recognizing particular people who feed them?
-Rattlesnakes are a "fun" captive. Though none that I know of, make good first hots. I do notice a difference. For instance my eastern diamond back is extremely “tame” when being out on the hook with me. However, other people it can be feisty. My atrox are about the most aggressive snakes I’ve personally dealt with. I have an adult albino male that I can swear hates my guts. However, he hates my friends guts 10 times as much! When ever he walks into the room, “Mr. Rattles” begins to rattle and get into a slight (s) position. Its actually very odd.....

I don't think I'd ever keep a venomous snake, but that's more because I do like to be able to have some contact with my animals, even if it's mostly on their terms (Coming out onto my arm, for whatever reason that runs through their little gecko minds, for example), and though I've seen amazing footage of a six-year-old child somewhere in India freehandling a very large, not-surgically-altered cobra, I don't think it's something I'd like to try for myself.
-I don’t condone the free handling or surgically altering of any venomous reptiles. Free handling is potentially dangerous or deadly to the handler, and the “venomoid” procedure could be potentially deadly to the reptile. If you do try venomous reptiles, I recommend a copperhead, a gaboon viper (because of its docile attitude), or any of the rear fanged species (being the best).
 
Ok I thought I'd jump in!

But just for a sec, I have to repremind one of my geckos (BOB), seems he's spending to much time on the Hamster wheel and none of the other geckos can get on! And this is a problem as There is no way I'm making new clothes for the females again just because they have fat deposits under there arms!!! NO WAY!!!!
So all I have to say is read this! Take two pills and call.....ok well call Marcia in the morning! :crap:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43241&highlight=opens+cage
 
well archeopterix (I know I spelled that wrong...dangit...) was supposed to have been one of the first birds...they had teeth, but I dont' know if they're considered "true birds"
 
Riverjop, Thanks for that link man..... I started to think I was the only one.... LOL..... If you and Seamus also feel that way, it must be true....LOL.... Thanks again man.....
 
Evolution Reading

I know everyone is a little bit past it, but if you are interested in learning anything about Evolution, "Dragons of Eden" by Carl Sagan has a lot of good information. It also has the history of the Universe or the World (can't remember which) laid out in a calendar year quite extensively. There are also many graphs and pretty pictures (hehe.)
 
No one can say evolution did not happen...... It is pretty clear that everything evolves and branches off their separate ways...... Too much scientific fact to say it never happend...... Do you really think people just popped up on the earth out of nowhere???? We evolved into what we are and we are still evolving......
 
How can you even consider evolution being the reason. There is no possible way a human can evolve from a single celled organism. But please explain how they can.
 
If there is no evolution...than what is the point of mutations?...if things did not evolve, random mutation would not exist and new colors/shapes/patterns/disease resistance, would never appear in any organism.
 
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