Why don't we form our own reptile shipping corporation?

[Scarlett_Fawn]

I for one am sick to DEATH of all the crap that we as reptile keepers take on a regular basis from all the shipping companies out there- from USPS, to UPS to Fedex, to DHL, to Dash. They're all completely hostile to our interests, and rarely will you hear the same story twice as to the "correct" way to ship with their companies. That would be like winning the lottery.

I think most people would agree, but my point is, why the heck don't all we reptile keepers on here band together and form our own private corporation that ships reptiles and exotics- EXCLUSIVELY?

I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of this. Why isn't a reptile trucking/air cargo company out there yet? Ideas?

 

[bsharrah]

I think you over estimate the number of us for one thing. Sorry to sound so negative, but what you are suggesting in not realistic. Consider the cost of shipping a package overnight by an established company with the staff and hubs already in place, using non-enviormentally controlled methods. Now multiply that exponentially in order to offer this same service using environmentally controlled methods to a fraction of their clients using a fraction of their resources.

I do understand your frustration and wish it was more cost effective to explore other options but I just can't see it coming to fruition. The unfortunate truth is that we are an insignificant population representing an even more insignificant percentage of Fedex, UPS, and DHL's customers.

Bart

 

[WebSlave]

Just a very rough guess, but I would imagine the startup costs to establish such a company, with a working network of their own couriers, planes, trucks, and staff, would likely be MANY MILLIONS of dollars in startup capital. Think about it. You would need pickup and delivery service in EVERY town on the map to make it work. With your planes servicing all those points DAILY as well.

Unless some sort of arrangement could be made to just be a fronting company for FedEx (or such) and use their existing network. Which probably puts you right back into the same boat.

This industry does not have the clout nor the money to pull off something like this.

IMHO, of course....

 

[reptiler ron]

I also do not think that this will never happen.While us reptile people would like to have a shipping company of our own it would raise the cost to ship critters to who knows what.The companys that we now use ship anything and everything,they have deals with airlines they work with and they have there own planes,hubs and substations,I think we just need to deal with what we have and go from there.Reptiler Ron

 

[bigman466]

I for one am sick to DEATH of all the crap that we as reptile keepers take on a regular basis from all the shipping companies out there- from USPS, to UPS to Fedex, to DHL, to Dash. They're all completely hostile to our interests, and rarely will you hear the same story twice as to the "correct" way to ship with their companies. That would be like winning the lottery.

I think most people would agree, but my point is, why the heck don't all we reptile keepers on here band together and form our own private corporation that ships reptiles and exotics- EXCLUSIVELY?

I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of this. Why isn't a reptile trucking/air cargo company out there yet? Ideas?

Please tell me you don't ship reptiles through USPS????

 

[Scarlett_Fawn]

I don't know if USPS still accepts amphibians and lizards or whatever, due to the fact that I've never shipped anything at all. I haven't shipped at all, because I consistently am told a new story everytime I ask a company how to ship a reptile. Totally unprofessional behavior! Only monopolies like theirs could get away with it.

Right now, I'm trying to figure out how to ship my reptiles down to the lower 48 for when I move out of Alaska. From what I have heard on the rumor mill, Dash takes it upon themselves to invite themselves to my house to "approve" me and my animals, before they decide that a month or so later, they they'll benevolently accept my $100-$120 to ship an animal that I will not get a full refund for if it arrives late or dies and is worth over $750. I will call them later this week at the number I was e-mailed after typing them a question as to how I should ship the animal, and hopefully they will not force me to remove my shoes and jacket during a surprise preliminary security sweep that will surely be conducted before they answer any of my questions. If I see a ninja cutting a hole in the glass of my bedroom window tonight, I know I can smile and go back to sleep. I'll know it's Delta, checking up on me in case I do decide to give them a phone call.

Sarcasm and whining aside (at least for a little while), I think there'd be money in an exotics shipping company- especially if the current monopolies finally decide that they're going to crack down on reptiles shipped under false pretenses- or if anti-reptile laws become even more oppressive. Not so many people seem to lobby for REMOVING silly, minor, nit-pickey laws, so I'm assuming that they will indefinitely become more oppressive, along with the shipping companies.

People would just have to be willing to pay more- and they're already paying $50-$120 right now. I think (especially if exotics go even more mainstream) people would be willing to pay extra for more security and peace of mind- especially with higher end animals. This is a niche market- one fad- one rumor- one fear can set an industry standard. I haven't heard of a company that insures more than Delta airlines- which is only a pitiful $750. What about ball python morphs? Would someone shipping an animal worth several thousand dollars be willing to pay a bit more for a sure bet vs. a gamble or having to be dishonest about what's in the package? I can't imagine that we can all sneak around forever with how reptiles are shipped. Even if we're technically not sneaking around, shipping companies' employees are so consistently ignorant of their own company policies, they may soon accuse even more people of it. (I've been accused of being a dishonest sneak if I were to ship some Satanic geckos in a deli cup with moist towels instead of a dry sack by UPS representatives- right to my face. I can't believe that people will prefer to tolerate this sort of shoddy service in order to save a few bucks... at least, I doubt that it will be tolerated forever.)

I remember recently, I paid for some snakes and never got them, because my poor seller was having to many battles with FedEx and apparently gave up! I got a refund instead! THAT's crazy. This is a guy who, unlike me, has successfully shipped reptiles in the past.

Unless there were millions of dollars to start off with, the first exotics shipping company would probably not be able to use planes- just trucks- and just in the contiguous 48 states. They might have to ship cats, dogs, and other animals too- maybe even livestock? They'd have to start out charging a considerable sum- and they'd have to survive not making a profit for several years. They couldn't afford to have actual hubs in every major town, as would be ideal. Perhaps they'd have strategic hubs and drivers that would drive all day for a very low wage and certainly no insurance, to do door-to-door delivery. Overnight delivery couldn't be offered right away.

If the company eventually got a reputation and became the industry standard for shipping, it might make it. If the big chain store shippers become even more hostile and non-consumer-oriented, it might make it. If laws continue to become more complicated and unsensible, it might make it.

I think you may underestimate the potential customer base too- that is, the number of up and coming exotics enthusiasts. Most people my age I've talked to like reptiles or amphibians of some sort, and either own, have owned, or have taken care of one. They're not like old people- most of whom I've talked to have their own unbending prejudices- against people and animals alike. Also, most apartments accept caged pets- no questions asked, unlike traditional pets.

Anyone out there less skeptical about the sucess of an exotics shipping company? I hope it's only a matter of time.

 

[hhmoore]

From what I have heard on the rumor mill, Dash takes it upon themselves to invite themselves to my house to "approve" me and my animals, before they decide that a month or so later, they they'll benevolently accept my $100-$120 to ship an animal

I tried to steer away from the most obvious & worst of the sarcasm and whining...hopefully I picked the right place to break that paragraph. Yes, Delta requires that one be a "recognized" shipper. Yes, this involves an "inspector" coming to your home. The inspector comes (at a pre-arranged date/time) to make sure you are who you say you are, and where you say you are, and takes your paperwork/applications at that time. The process takes, at most, 10-15 minutes (my inspector said the longest one he ever did was about half an hour...the customer wanted to show off his worm farm)

I think there'd be money in an exotics shipping company- especially if the current monopolies finally decide that they're going to crack down on reptiles shipped under false pretenses

There are enough approved methods of shipping reptiles that there really isn't much reason to ship under false pretenses. There may/may not be a waiver/permit required, depending on the company - but USPS, UPS, DHL, FedEx, and Delta are all viable options (depending, of course, upon WHAT you ship) - only FedEx and Delta accept snakes PER POLICY. The people that are choosing to fly under the radar, so to speak, have bigger worries than the shipping companies cracking down - They are violating Federal law with each package they ship, and the consequences are a whole lot worse than having their UPS account suspended.

Not so many people seem to lobby for REMOVING silly, minor, nit-pickey laws, so I'm assuming that they will indefinitely become more oppressive

It is hard enough to stop, or even change, the process of pending reptile legislation...most legislators have a somewhat closed mind on the subject; and instead of justifying the law, we end up having to justify our right to engage in this hobby and keep these animals. If there has been even one bit of negative attention in a given area, those attempts at justification tend to be futile. Once things get to a certain stage, you might as well not bother, because it would be deemed political suicide for one to go against a bill. Can you tell that I have been involved in these battles on various levels (from town to county, to state)?

Unless there were millions of dollars to start off with, the first exotics shipping company would probably not be able to use planes- just trucks- and just in the contiguous 48 states. They might have to ship cats, dogs, and other animals too- maybe even livestock? They'd have to start out charging a considerable sum- and they'd have to survive not making a profit for several years. They couldn't afford to have actual hubs in every major town, as would be ideal. Perhaps they'd have strategic hubs and drivers that would drive all day for a very low wage and certainly no insurance, to do door-to-door delivery. Overnight delivery couldn't be offered right away.

A few lines before this, you mentioned ball python morphs - how would you feel, as buyer or seller, if you had to ship your prized morph via truck, along a circuitous route, and have it take days (if not a week or more) to arrive? You are kidding, right? I can remember when reptiles were not delivered to one's door via overnight carrier - one had to plan in the trip to the airport to pick up the package at the freight office or luggage counter. The way we have it now is a luxury, if a bit expensive. To pay significantly more, for drastically reduced service, would not be a viable or acceptable option. I think you would find people focusing more on shows, to eliminate shipping

Anyone out there less skeptical about the sucess of an exotics shipping company?

not to be overly pessimistic, burst your bubble, or rain on your parade, but I doubt it

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Anyone out there less skeptical about the sucess of an exotics shipping company? I hope it's only a matter of time.

Only way i can see it working, was if you were to start your own GENERAL all purpose shipping company. ( Which would take, alot of time, alot of money, and alot of start up staff.

Lots and lots of capital, which. is REALLY almost impossible to get unless you have it already. )

And then Allow the easy Correct shipment of live reptiles in your terms. but then, you would have to remember liability stuff and lots and lots of legal issues that come with it.

it, in theory COULD work, but... for the time period we are in now. i dont see it happening.

 

[Clay Davenport]

From what I have heard on the rumor mill, Dash takes it upon themselves to invite themselves to my house...

They don't just take it upon themselves, and they're not doing it just as an aggravation. Part of the fallout from 9/11 was that cargo from unknown shippers cannot be shipped on a passenger airliner.
They wouldn't do it if they weren't made to.

I haven't heard of a company that insures more than Delta airlines- which is only a pitiful $750.

Perhaps it's changed, but as I remember it when I got my known shipper status, the insurance limit was $5,000.

Unless there were millions of dollars to start off with, the first exotics shipping company would probably not be able to use planes- just trucks- and just in the contiguous 48 states. They might have to ship cats, dogs, and other animals too- maybe even livestock? They'd have to start out charging a considerable sum- and they'd have to survive not making a profit for several years. They couldn't afford to have actual hubs in every major town, as would be ideal. Perhaps they'd have strategic hubs and drivers that would drive all day for a very low wage and certainly no insurance, to do door-to-door delivery. Overnight delivery couldn't be offered right away.

Every period in that paragraph is the end of another reason why it will never happen. Fuel prices alone would make it cost prohibitive.
There may be as much as 1000 boxes a day containing reptiles in transit in this country. It may be a lot lower, but I doubt it's much higher. Spread this out over the the whole country and imagine how many trucks would be required to cover that area and how few packages on each truck.
There is just no possible way a new shipping company can try to start up with the intention of filling such a small niche market.
In addition, just how many people do you think would ship a live reptile any distance knowing it would be on a truck the entire time. Factoring in stops along the way, would you want a snake taking 3 or 4 days on a truck to get to you from the opposite coast? The use of planes is the only way feasible to transport anything live beyond the next state.

What I would see as a more viable option would be for the large chain pet stores to get involved. I know we don't like them, but Petco, Petsmart, and a couple of others are large corporations and could carry weight.
If they made an agreement with FedEx to be a shipper, the potential volume they could do could make them take more notice. That and the fact that by default a big company will take another big company more seriously than they will any one individual.
What it would amount to is packages could be sent and received at the store location. They could of course charge a fee for the service. This way one approved shipper, the pet store, could handle the packages of a large portion of the individual hobbyists. Sort of like a shipping co-op.
This may not work either, but it would be far more likely than starting a whole new shipping company.

If it becomes impossible to ship reptiles one day, what we'll see is a return to the reptile shows as a primary means of getting new animals. We may also see some sort of "underground railroad" of sorts evolve where hobbyists ferry packages hand off style from one state to the next. This is already done with certain breed specific rescue groups with dogs, but it works because the trips are infrequent.

 

[ExoticsExpress]

I for one am sick to DEATH of all the crap that we as reptile keepers take on a regular basis from all the shipping companies out there- from USPS, to UPS to Fedex, to DHL, to Dash. They're all completely hostile to our interests, and rarely will you hear the same story twice as to the "correct" way to ship with their companies. That would be like winning the lottery.

I think most people would agree, but my point is, why the heck don't all we reptile keepers on here band together and form our own private corporation that ships reptiles and exotics- EXCLUSIVELY?

I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of this. Why isn't a reptile trucking/air cargo company out there yet? Ideas?

OMG this made my day,

 

[ExoticsExpress]

shiping isnt usually the problem

To be totally honest, most of the time deaths of animals in transit are because they were already not in the best health situation before departing going through all that stress and/or not packed accordingly for that stressful journey. I know people who have shipped for years and years and never lost an animal in transit with buying or selling. Reptiles, unlike fish and other animals are very hearty, as long as they are packed right in an insulated box with proper packaging within, and the animal was healthy from the start, and as long as the carrier gets it there by the scheudled time, there should never be a problem with an animal's death. Most of the time, even though the shipping carrier got the package there on time, and if there are DOA(S) within, it is incredibly easy for a seller to "point the blame" on the animal's death upon the shipping carrier using textbook excuses to justify issues from the start on their end. Yes, there are a high number of cases where a carrier's mistakes were the cause of the animals unfortunate DOA, but that is just going to happen, unfortunately, and yes at that situation they are the ones to blame. THERE IS NO airline/shipping carrier that is always flawless in there service, I have had problems with every one of them, and some people who have had a flawless record with that particular airline gets canceled out from someone who has had issues with that same company. But just keep in mind, in the majority of the cases, when an animal arriving on time comes DOA, it is usually the fault of the seller, whether it be packaging condition, health status of the animal before having another whole load of stress added on by being boxed up and shipped, or other situations that the seller could of avoided from his end.

Anthony Allis
[email protected]

 

[Scarlett_Fawn]

Well, whatever, losers. No wonder no one cares about us. We have the charm, enthusiasm, and determination of the toads we lose in the mail.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Well, whatever, losers. No wonder no one cares about us. We have the charm, enthusiasm, and determination of the toads we lose in the mail.

And the knowledge, experience and realism to know a poorly thought out, impossible idea when we see one.

 

[ExoticsExpress]

Well, whatever, losers. No wonder no one cares about us. We have the charm, enthusiasm, and determination of the toads we lose in the mail.

No offense, well maybe it will be, but I personally think you are not the brightest. Especially getting mad at others who have had the serious patience to even explain and sift through your silly images. You plan to have a trucking compound and airplanes in every single last area in the entire country!!?? Just because there isn't flawless behavior in todays carriers? Just because this imaginary airline will be for exotics, what makes you think it won't still have the same simple problems a normal plane or company has, they don't purposely do it because there are exotics on board. I just find it hilarious that you think the entire USA map in every last street in the 50 states will be crawling with a giant company set up for reptile shipping. If you are truly serious about the idea, than why don't you reply to answer those questions or reason with those opinions rather than just posting everyone a loser. Doesn't seem like your too dedicated to the idea to wave off people's opinions on it.

Anthony Allis
[email protected]

 

[Valley Dragons]

THERE IS NO airline/shipping carrier that is always flawless in there service, I have had problems with every one of them, and some people who have had a flawless record with that particular airline gets canceled out from someone who has had issues with that same company. But just keep in mind, in the majority of the cases, when an animal arriving on time comes DOA, it is usually the fault of the seller, whether it be packaging condition, health status of the animal before having another whole load of stress added on by being boxed up and shipped, or other situations that the seller could of avoided from his end.

Anthony Allis
[email protected]

I couldn't agree more! I've tried different shipping companies - and eventually dealth with stupid crap from each one. Things will be fine for a while...and them comes the screw-up. Call me a cynic, but I don't think it is possible for ANY large shipping company to function flawlessly. It is just too difficult to weed out all the idiots from among your numerous employees - and all it takes is one person to punch in the wrong numbers, or slack off on their job because they are having a bad day, or not be informed of the company's policies. For example, I have been shipping through UPS for the past couple of years. I showed up with a shipment of dragons, assuming things would go smoothly, and lo and behold - an employee working that day decided that UPS did not take live animal shipments - and has NEVER taken live animal shipments. Hmmm....and she was rude to boot! So after a few phone calls, I got a major apology...but it still took time out of my day. Like I said - all it takes is one person!

Jamie

 

[ExoticsExpress]

Yes, it is just reality that companies can have an over all GREAT satisfaction rate and majority of time execute client's requests as promised, but no one is perfect. In these cases, involving live stock makes the situation far more worse and the results of the error a lot higher in elevation than a pair of shoes or a computer delayed a day or 2 or even a few hours because lives are on the line. I just would like to know why there wouldn't be 1 error in this "magical airline of exotic wonderland" --people would still be running it, as a result, error possibility is at the same rate it is anywhere else.

Anthony Allis
[email protected]

 

[cka]

Just an idea...It would be "easier" (lol) to form a company that say Delta Dash could use to provide delivery service of animals shipped thru their hubs...And it would still cost beaucoup bucks to start up...Also...Air freight in the US is controlled and regulated by TSA, and there are a myriad of rules and regulations to follow, and that's just to ship a piece of furniture via the airlines, let alone an animal...

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Well, whatever, losers. No wonder no one cares about us. We have the charm, enthusiasm, and determination of the toads we lose in the mail.

So then if its so simple, why dont you go start the company up yourself. Seriously.... i think its time to step away from the keyboard, and start realizing the reality of the world.

 

[Scarlett_Fawn]

Whoever monitors these forums- please DELETE my account and personal information off of here permanently. I just got the rudest, most presumptuous message I've ever had on here from a complete stranger, and I am NOT going to be spending ANY of my free time around grown adults who are too immature to debate or explore ideas without immediately becoming personally insulting.

 

[Scarlett_Fawn]

P.S. It was a private message, not someone posted on here.