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Why not to buy "Captive Bred" GTP's from LLL Reptile

JimO I did notice that and it's why I asked him if he could answer yes to my questions.

Adam keeps saying he was told that the animal was not farm bred though at first he just said he was told it was CBB. Anyway I still wonder from where he learned that if was farm bred? Seems to keep saying it wasn't CBB over and over yet doesn't say how he knows where it came from. I do believe that LLL has on occasion sold CBB animals they received from breeders in this country. Randy
 
This...

Suncoast Herpetological said:
John

If a dealer is up front about what he is selling it becomes a less prevalent problem but I cannot count the number of 10 and 12 year old kids i have seen walking out of shows with fresh imported Uros, Ball Pythons and Boas. We all know that those animals are generally not long for this world. Knowlegable breeders are taking a calculated risk. The pet buying public just sees a good price.
Click to expand...

...I can't argue with. Good point. They are not at all discriminatory when it comes to who they will sell to. Ethical, probably not. Won't be good for business in the long run, when it comes to the pet-buying public...then again, judging by PETCO, I'm giving the general pet-buying public WAY too much credit. I have more disdain for the "irrationally exuberant" market than for those who position themselves to profit from it. I'm pretty sick of talking to people who want to know how to take care of a snake AFTER they buy it rather than before, you know.

Suncoast Herpetological said:
John

My impression is that you are equating these two statements as conveying the same point. Read them Brian. They are as different as night and day.The reason I say this is, while I vehemently disagree with the first, I grudgingly agree with most of the second. Surely you can see the difference. The first statement comes off as a callous disregard for both the animals and the potential buyer. You can use statements like "sound bytes" all you like but they are your own words. Caveat Emptor indeed!

However, dealing with large numbers of animals never excuses any dealer from sending out sub par animals to the retail buyer.

This statement bears a bit of scrutiny as well


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian
LLL Reptile SUPPLY does NOT provide an express OR an implied warranty on any of their animals. The risk of quality lies with the buyer. End of story



You are correct. They do not warranty their animals at all. Don't you find that strange Brian? Similar types of dealers offer excellent warranties on all their animals, imports and captive bred alike. Ben Siegel's warranty is one of the best in the business. Why do you think that they have no express or implied warranty? Could it be that having such a warranty would be rather costly given the level of care we are discussing?

Finally Brian, I did not accuse you of any lack of care for your animals. For all I know you have the best husbandry skills out there. All I pointed out was that your original statement seemed to expressly convey that a diminished level of care was acceptable if the selling price was low enough. If what you stated in your last post was what you were trying to get across then we could have saved a fair amount of typing if you had worded your original post that way.
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Fair Enough!

Cheers! :)

Brian G. Engleman
 
ravensgait said:
John if you want to discuss what people are implying in their post you have more than once implied in this thread that LLL doesn't take care of its animals. Is this something you know for a fact or is it just something you are implying just to imply something? See it's not a good idea to try to read into what someone wrote... It's funny how you seem to think Brian was saying one thing when I had no problem understanding what his points were, must be that implying thing again.

I sometimes wonder if people come here after a bad day looking for someone to use to blow off steam. Randy
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Randy

Two things.

First. I did not read anything into Brian's first post. I took it at face value and word for word. If you managed to get another meaning from it...I don't quite understand how. His more recent post seems to have clarified his position.

Second. I have not implied anything about LLL. I have had direct experience withh them before. The experience was not good and their resolution followed suit. I have also worked a dozen or more shows with them and have first hand seen the problems that have been described here.

Actually my day was quite good Randy. No steam in need of release at all

You also might want to get a handle on the definition of imply. I think you will find that my statements in this thread have been pretty direct and to the point.
 
Just as a point of interest, LLL currently has four GTPs listed for sale, ranging in price from $299 to $339. ALL are listed as captive born.

Mark Mercier
 
Mark,

"Captive Born" is a bit of a "garbage bag". The term should be "Captive Hatched" (CH) or "Captive Bred and Born" (CBB). I suspect that these are captive hatched animals.
 
The reason I mentioned this is that directly above the C.B. Chondros, are "farmed" ball pythons. So they seem to be making the distinction.

Mark Mercier
 
Maybe they are simply trying to "use" language that is most advantageous but I do not claim to know. Whenever I see "CB" and not "CBB" I assume they mean "CH" or farmed. I do believe there may be a difference. "Farmed" BP's in West Africa may be collected after hatching and some of the CH chondros are the result of collecting the gravid females and actually controlling incubation of the eggs and keeping the hatchlings in a controlled, parasite free environment. But that's just a hunch based upon what I know of some of the facilities in Indonesia.
 
Jim O said:
Whenever I see "CB" and not "CBB" I assume they mean "CH" or farmed. I do believe there may be a difference.
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I think it's being used more now than in the past, as a sneaky way of hoping people will think it was CCB. I always use to just use CB, to me it use to mean captive bred, ergo also captive born, so either I just learned it wrong, way back when, or it has been gradually altered in meaning by the "sly" advertisers. Gonna have to remember the ectra "c" from now on.
 
Agreed to both parties. I never claimed innocence, just misrepresentation. I made a choice not to take the animal to the vet because I felt that throwing several hundred dollars at a vet in that case was a crap shoot at best.


reptilebreeder said:
Very good point. Something I think that has been overlooked in this thread. Even considering the OP was lied to, the problem could have been something as "simple" as a parasite/stress overload. Something that can be treated relatively easy. Granted you may have been screwed, because it was a farmed import (and theoretically, wouldn't have to worry about something like parasites with a CCB), it still might be alive today, had it been taken to a vet.
Click to expand...
 
If you read my prior responses, I was told by people on this BOI that LLL's GTP's are farmed imports, I made my decisions based on that. If you would like to dig through threads until you find out who it was exactly that told me, you go right ahead. However, I doubt you will question those people's word as you did mine. I tell you I was sold a Cadillac and received a Hyundai and you want to argue over what friggin color it was.

ravensgait said:
JimO I did notice that and it's why I asked him if he could answer yes to my questions.

Adam keeps saying he was told that the animal was not farm bred though at first he just said he was told it was CBB. Anyway I still wonder from where he learned that if was farm bred? Seems to keep saying it wasn't CBB over and over yet doesn't say how he knows where it came from. I do believe that LLL has on occasion sold CBB animals they received from breeders in this country. Randy
Click to expand...
 
Now correct me if I'm wrong Adam but you said you started this thread because you had learned that the animal was not bred in this country or as you first said it was not CBB. Now I and others here have said they sell farm bred animals as well as animals that were bred in the US on occasion. Now if you had hear they sold Farmed animals before you made this post where did you hear it from? Or did you just start this thread because you were upset about losing your snake and learned that they sell some Farmed animals after the fact? Not trying to bust your b$#$s but it seems your story has changed some. Randy
 
I was told by a bunch of people on another thread on the BOI in I think December that LLL reptile gets their GTP's exclusively from farms in Asia. The people who told me this were very reputable BOI regulars which is why I believed them over LLL. If my story seems to change, I'm sorry, but this thread started over 6 months ago, kinda hard to remember 6 month old details.
 
cyberfrog said:
I was told by a bunch of people on another thread on the BOI in I think December that LLL reptile gets their GTP's exclusively from farms in Asia. The people who told me this were very reputable BOI regulars which is why I believed them over LLL. If my story seems to change, I'm sorry, but this thread started over 6 months ago, kinda hard to remember 6 month old details.
Click to expand...
That is still second hand information, Adam, no matter what the source. You really do not know for certain.
 
Thanks Adam that's what I've been trying to find out for a number of post. I agree with Jim that's not conclusive evidence. Just learned last year that there is no Santa !!! man and all those people I trusted kept telling me he was real and that if I was good he'd bring me something :) Randy
 
I hear ya man, the people who told me are not people I would question. IE people who obviously know alot more about how stuff works than I do. Where the basis of the thread came from.
 
PaulSage said:
WHAT?!?
Click to expand...

Yup! Bagged em last year right as he was leaving the north pole. Took out his silly deer too.
 

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