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Witblits dragons - true patternless beardies

spyder79 said:
they first popped up in the early 2000s Josh is a originator of the line here in the states and im sure they were well over a grand though i dont remember their prices. The originals of the line, however, were severely deformed and had extremely high infantile death rates.
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Thats what i was looking for. SO a TRANSLUCENT dragon that was produced 6-10 years ago went for over $1000 dollars and the gene was so weak you had what a 50 50 of that animals surviving? AND that animal was that much money back in that time era. A price on a witblit today(only using that as an example) Retail is 2800 to 3200 for a brand new morph thats healthy and thrives. and you can be the first to make a witblits leatherback etc.... (still only using the witblits as an example) And market them for yourself.

Thank you sir, just the info i needed to make my point, on some on these animals and there prices
 
yeah i was never questioning their prices i question what is neccessary to reproduce them. At this point they basically have to be direct line inbred and that is my biggest issue with these dragons.
 
chris allen said:
When I got out in late 03, I don't recall having ever seen a translucent for sale.
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they werent yet widely available at that point that is just when they popped up in the UK. I think it was in 05 that they became publicly available. that im not totally sure on though.
 
spyder79 said:
they werent yet widely available at that point that is just when they popped up in the UK. I think it was in 05 that they became publicly available. that im not totally sure on though.
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ok like i thought then it was like 4 yrs ago. but your also comparing the weakest known gene to a brand new gene that we know nothing about. the witblits are new and dont need to be crossed out several times to be healthy, there good to go. So thats alot better of a start than the translucents.
 
So my question is this...if translucents were a brand new morph it 05 and they brought 1k, what makes a witblits worth 4-5k? Both recessive, both new, both really unknown at those price points, and in my opinion back then there was probably overall a better market for beardeds?
 
dragonluver83 said:
ok like i thought then it was like 4 yrs ago. but your also comparing the weakest known gene to a brand new gene that we know nothing about. the witblits are new and dont need to be crossed out several times to be healthy, there good to go. So thats alot better of a start than the translucents.
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is it honestly? They are still going to have to inbreed the line to reproduce them as its not a dominant trait. You will have to breed a witblit to another witblit or a witblit sibling to reproduce the line. Uneless jaquis has purchased a silverback from japan to cross into their line to be able to add different blood. Considering this has never been said i doubt it has happened. Until shown otherwise it is of my opinion this animal, to be continued, will have to be continuously line bred (possibly skipping a generation each time) to produce it consistantly. Eventually it will be bred out enough to get past any inbreeding issues but at the beginning of the morph there are going to be a ton of un-neccessary health defects that can not be avoided when inbreeding a line.
 
chris allen said:
So my question is this...if translucents were a brand new morph it 05 and they brought 1k, what makes a witblits worth 4-5k? Both recessive, both new, both really unknown at those price points, and in my opinion back then there was probably overall a better market for beardeds?
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i cant quote an exact price as i do not know it. I was never interested in purchasing them so i never kept up with the prices. But in all honesty the price is set by the founders and this person feels their dragons are worth 4k so that is where they set their price.
 
chris allen said:
So my question is this...if translucents were a brand new morph it 05 and they brought 1k, what makes a witblits worth 4-5k? Both recessive, both new, both really unknown at those price points, and in my opinion back then there was probably overall a better market for beardeds?
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Never said they weren't alittle pricey. But that gene isnt on the edge of living and dying. This isnt a translucent dragon. Do you remember what a translucent looked like back in the day??? I think these animals look better than a "modern day translucent."
Why should hypo translucent leatherbacks go for $2000 - $2400 but a brand new morph with potential gets cut short??? and the dragons are what 4 G's. but thats with import/export. Whats that run i heard any where from 800 to 1200. so really that 4 thousand dollar animal is actually 3 grand and thats only 1000-600 more than a hypo trans leatherback. That has been on the market for a year now. Remember i am going off of "retail value". So there is an argument in any case. Is the animal over priced, yea maybe. by alot, i dont think so.
 
spyder79 said:
is it honestly? They are still going to have to inbreed the line to reproduce them as its not a dominant trait. You will have to breed a witblit to another witblit or a witblit sibling to reproduce the line. Uneless jaquis has purchased a silverback from japan to cross into their line to be able to add different blood. Considering this has never been said i doubt it has happened. Until shown otherwise it is of my opinion this animal, to be continued, will have to be continuously line bred (possibly skipping a generation each time) to produce it consistantly. Eventually it will be bred out enough to get past any inbreeding issues but at the beginning of the morph there are going to be a ton of un-neccessary health defects that can not be avoided when inbreeding a line.
Click to expand...

Wasn't all recessive traits inbred??? Now where are we with hypos and translucents??? So now you bad mouthing every morph we have.
 
I don't think the hypo trans leathers are worth 2k either honestly, little crazy to me. If people are buying them at that price, more power to them, won't be me though. Id rather have a cool ass looking $200 dragon and buy something else that will actually hold its value. My favorite dragons honestly are probably some of the less expensive ones I have, just a matter of opinion.
 
Also, I don't think the problem is going to be the fact that they will have to be inbred. The problem is the people and the race that there's going to be to produce them first. Instead of doing things the right way, linebreeding, outcrossing, etc how many are going to take shortcuts because they think its a get rich quick situation?
 
dragonluver83 said:
are you sure???
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Yes i am 100% certain as i had that explained to me by the OP on bd.org

the price is 4500 plus the import export fee of approximately 1200

and i feel ya chris. id much rather spend 300 bux on a beautiful large bodied dragon than drop 1000 plus on a leather trans but thats my opinion.

And yes the problem is going to be instead of taking the time to cultivate the line it will inevitably be done the same way others were to produce them quick. its a sad fact.
 
chris allen said:
I don't think the hypo trans leathers are worth 2k either honestly, little crazy to me. If people are buying them at that price, more power to them, won't be me though. Id rather have a cool ass looking $200 dragon and buy something else that will actually hold its value. My favorite dragons honestly are probably some of the less expensive ones I have, just a matter of opinion.
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my favorite dragon ever is my big male dr. evil and he is a normal light colored (when fired up) dragon. no special genes to him. he is able to throw nice sidebars to his offspring but thats all he is. He is huge and very healthy thats the most important thing and thats why i consider him the best dragon in my collection.
 
chris allen said:
Also, I don't think the problem is going to be the fact that they will have to be inbred. The problem is the people and the race that there's going to be to produce them first. Instead of doing things the right way, linebreeding, outcrossing, etc how many are going to take shortcuts because they think its a get rich quick situation?
Click to expand...

That i will go with. but there will be a few that do it right. really its not a race and the ones that do it wrong, it will probly show in there animal.

spyder79 said:
Yes i am 100% certain as i had that explained to me by the OP on bd.org

the price is 4500 plus the import export fee of approximately 1200

and i feel ya chris. id much rather spend 300 bux on a beautiful large bodied dragon than drop 1000 plus on a leather trans but thats my opinion.

And yes the problem is going to be instead of taking the time to cultivate the line it will inevitably be done the same way others were to produce them quick. its a sad fact.
Click to expand...

Okay well its not like i was getting one anyway, but that made it that much worse..
 
chris allen said:
I don't think the hypo trans leathers are worth 2k either honestly, little crazy to me. If people are buying them at that price, more power to them, won't be me though. Id rather have a cool ass looking $200 dragon and buy something else that will actually hold its value. My favorite dragons honestly are probably some of the less expensive ones I have, just a matter of opinion.
Click to expand...

No doubt, im with you. my most expense one went for 1000 but it was pretty hot too... and my cheapest was 650. there def. no two grans animals. but i mean these animals arent trash and breeders have gone through alot to produce what we have. so some dragons def. deserve the dollar value they get. but some breeders just abuse what they have and over price it.
 
dragonluver83 said:
Wasn't all recessive traits inbred??? Now where are we with hypos and translucents??? So now you bad mouthing every morph we have.
Click to expand...

yes actually if you look at the background health wise of hypos there are tons of problems with them as well though they are so spread out now that its not such a problem though there are still ones that pop up with severe genetic issues.

But yes hypos are in the same list as trans and leathers. just not as bad now because of how spread out they are. I own a hypo but he is very healthy and good sized. And i wouldnt reproduce him if he wasnt of good size. The norm for dragons has gotten rediculous to think that its ok to reproduce a 16 inch dragon is in my opinion wrong. anyway im getting off on a tangent im out.
 
Hey Witblits,
I am truly sorry for insulting your dragons on the for sale ad. I looked at your website and being that they are patternless at such a young age is actually pretty sweet. You must have something special if they consistently hatching you this way is very different that anything I have seen. I think these dragons would be cool as all red. Good luck!
Max Stephens
 
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