WTH Rich!

[WebSlave]

hey rich let me tell you some thing you are a real a$$ to let any snake go for any reason and with the laws they are trying to pass you are a real dirt bag its like you dont care about the hobby . i am tired of people like you walking in to the my living room and crapping on my carpet thats what you are doing you dont care about this hobby at all well this hobby dont care about you so get the hell out of it and dont let the door hit you where god sure split you

I take it you were unable to understand what was posted in that linked thread. Sorry bud, but that sort of personal abuse is not welcome on this site.

 

[Ed Clark]

He is releasing his corn's on his property and it happens to be in the natural range of the corn snake.

I believe that all corn morphs originated from wild caught populations so whats the big problem here?

 

[norsmis]

He is releasing his corn's on his property and it happens to be in the natural range of the corn snake.

I believe that all corn morphs originated from wild caught populations so whats the big problem here?

I guess when your right to keep any snake is taken away because of actions like this, you will get it then.
Do you not understand this hobby/industry is under fire right now? Do you not understand that the right for us to keep ANY snake could be taken away? The people trying to take these rights away dont care if its a corn snake or a blind snake thats being released into the wild. All they know is a person who was an industry leading snake producer is letting snakes go in the wild in FLORIDA!!!!!!!! My God people, WAKE UP before its too late!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[snowgyre]

I believe that all corn morphs originated from wild caught populations so whats the big problem here?

While it is true that corn snakes as a species are native to where Rich plans to release them, the problem is that there are many subspecies of corn snakes. Captive animals are mutts, and introducing an exotic gene pool to a native subspecies could have really detrimental effects. Subspecies exist because they are best suited to local conditions and they're also the first step into a new species. If captive animals (which were bred from stock all over the country) are released, there are the following consequences:

1. Dilution of native subspecies genetics, weakening the local population to local environmental conditions to which they are adapted.

2. Homogenizing the genetics of continental corn snake populations, potentially eliminating long-term evolution into different, distinct species.

3. Introducing exotic diseases to which the native population has no resistance. For example, Native Americans were decimated due to small pox because they lacked immunity. We're essentially doing the same thing by importing animals of the same species from different locations and then releasing them.

I sincerely hope Rich reconsiders. It is extremely irresponsible to release any captive animal. I like the idea of auctioning them off for PIJAC or USARK. The animals would be finding quality homes with responsible reptile owners and benefiting the reptile community as a whole.

 

[johns6068]

I guess when your right to keep any snake is taken away because of actions like this, you will get it then.
Do you not understand this hobby/industry is under fire right now? Do you not understand that the right for us to keep ANY snake could be taken away? The people trying to take these rights away dont care if its a corn snake or a blind snake thats being released into the wild. All they know is a person who was an industry leading snake producer is letting snakes go in the wild in FLORIDA!!!!!!!! My God people, WAKE UP before its too late!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ron

 

[snowgyre]

Has anybody actually contacted Rich about alternatives? I hope people give him the benefit of a doubt and didn't send him lots of antagonistic messages. In my experience, it often encourages people to do the wrong thing as a form of retribution.

 

[SPJ]

He is releasing his corn's on his property and it happens to be in the natural range of the corn snake.

I believe that all corn morphs originated from wild caught populations so whats the big problem here?

Are you really this dense?
Releasing captive snakes into the wild is WRONG!
It doesn't matter that they are found in Florida or not. These are CB animals he couldn't sell and adults that are going to be released in January whne they come out of brumation if they aren't sold.

This is a kick in the face to all the hobbyists trying to fight legislation that originated from the belief by govenrment officials that keepers release unwanted snakes into the wild.

Any sheeple who thinks that this is OK needs to take a long hard look at the legislation is pending against the reptile community.

 

[SPJ]

Has anybody actually contacted Rich about alternatives? I hope people give him the benefit of a doubt and didn't send him lots of antagonistic messages. In my experience, it often encourages people to do the wrong thing as a form of retribution.

Evidently he has been doing this for years and plans to continue doing it.

He is out of the business now and it appears he doesn't care what effect his actions may have on the rest of us.

He isn't going to keep snakes anymore so why should he care if they get banned with the latest legislation that came about from releasing captive animals into the wild.

All RESPONSIBLE keepers need to strongly denounce this type of thing.

 

[MikeCurtin]

Sorry, Rich, but I just lost a lot of respect for you. As Vanessa stated, releasing captive snakes into a wild environment is irresponsible....period.

 

[KelliH]

I'm really surprised by this. It's not a good thing.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Rich, why don't you hold an auction and donate the proceeds to USARK or PIJAC. This would help the hobby rather then possibly hurt it??

In light of the new information, this is a good suggestion.

**However, because I realize that most people hate to be 'pushed,' into doing anything, I would suggest an auction at the shows of his choosing until everything is gone, and he can do with the money as he pleases.

 

[Twizted Paths]

Way to help spread the bad publicity around.

I guess the original place this was posted wasn't generating enough traffic, not catching a wide enough range of viewers?

 

[SPJ]

Way to help spread the bad publicity around.

I guess the original place this was posted wasn't generating enough traffic, not catching a wide enough range of viewers?

EVERYONE needs to step up and let Rich and people know this is unacceptable?

Unless we stand together and let people know we WILL NOT tolerate this type of behavior, we are going to lose our right to keep any kind of snake.

People need to step up and let Rich now this is unacceptable.

I am bringing it to light here so people know that there are some of us out there who will not tolerate this type of careless behavior. There are some of us in this hobby who will call people out for doing stupid things no matter who they are.

 

[johns6068]

Way to help spread the bad publicity around.

I guess the original place this was posted wasn't generating enough traffic, not catching a wide enough range of viewers?

No it's called making an example out of someone who should have known better.....I don't think we as an a reptile community should be viewed as people who just sweep stuff like this under the rug....

There should be post here from everyone that reads this thread stating how they disapprove of Rich's doings

 

[Shadera]

I guess when your right to keep any snake is taken away because of actions like this, you will get it then.
Do you not understand this hobby/industry is under fire right now? Do you not understand that the right for us to keep ANY snake could be taken away? The people trying to take these rights away dont care if its a corn snake or a blind snake thats being released into the wild. All they know is a person who was an industry leading snake producer is letting snakes go in the wild in FLORIDA!!!!!!!! My God people, WAKE UP before its too late!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed.

 

[WebSlave]

Did anyone here actually bother to read that thread on CornSnakes.com where I presented my arguments? Does anyone here even realize that I sold all my animals as of early December?

And does anyone here understand that we are talking about OPINIONS concerning "right" and "wrong", and no one has displayed any attributes that I would consider them as being the holder of some absolute truth of these matters? Sorry, but YOUR opinion is just that. YOUR opinion. I am under no obligation whatsoever to accept YOUR opinion based on mere speculation over MINE regardless of your desires that this will be the case.

Sorry, but I have my opinions in such matters and you may have yours. These are fully expressed in that thread I mentioned earlier. I have no intention of duplicating the bulk of that argument here nor elsewhere. Especially when it became obvious to me that the arguments were simply becoming redundant, completely lacking in any FACTS whatsoever, and purely based on emotions stemming from the current political situation. That and the simple matter that this discussion is all in the PAST tenses anyway, which seems to have completely escaped most people's attention.

So let me reiterate here. I have sold ALL of my animals as of early December. There are NO animals remaining here at my facility whatsoever. There are no animals to BE released at all.

I have heard all the arguments presented, and presented my side of the arguments in full detail. You may disagree with my opinions, and I obviously disagree with your opinions. But that is all they are: OPINIONS. Not one single solitary person has shown me even a shred of evidence that my releasing corns has had any reasonable probability of being harmful in any way. Possible harm? Well sure. But there is also the possibility that every time I drive a vehicle that I may run into a school bus and kill all the children in it. Unfathomable as it may seem, I still choose to take that drive anyway.

So if you do not understand my point of few, and/or simply disagree with it regardless of your ability to provide a rational argument containing facts and evidence of harm, then you have nothing to offer in this issue as far as FACTS are concerned. I have released corn snakes within their native range and that is that. I chose to give them a chance to live, if they could, rather then simply euthanizing them. Call me a softie at heart, if you will, but I felt it much better for those animals to be given a chance, however slim, rather then them having NO chance whatsoever. Those animals were NOT unhealthy in the sense of having probable pathogens, but instead were animals that just acted as they did not care to be in captivity. This could be from the reluctant feed response towards mice, or the rubbing of the nose to the point where debilitating damage would have been the likely result. Or maybe they just were aggressive enough where it was obvious that they didn't like being around people at all. Obviously UNHEALTHY animals, or those that could not possibly survive, were euthanized. For babies, it was three attempts with pinky mice or out the door to find whatever the heck it was they wanted to feed on. And that was really only a short period of time anyway, as I had a wholesaler who bought even the non-feeders from me for the last several years. Prior to that period Connie would nearly kill herself trying to get those stubborn SOBs to take pinky mice. So yes, there was a period of time between when I preferred letting those pain in the asses go rather than watching my wife beat herself to death over them.

So that is that, in my opinion.

If you want any further elaboration on this, sorry, but I have done that in spades in that other thread, and can't see any reason to keep on repeating myself here. If you all want to get pissed at me for my actions, then so be it. I was much more concerned with giving those animals a chance at life then worrying about what someone else may think about my choices in such matters.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Rich,

I looked over everything. I have no problem with your decision, my reply was IF you had anything left....

I think the most troublesome aspect of your decision is that it's IN PRINT for those supporting the snake ban to pull up and use for ammunition.

I do wish that nothing had been put in print. I, do in fact, think there is nothing wrong with giving the corn snakes a chance. It's a far cry from releasing the BIG ones in Florida, but again...it will probably fuel the ban if dredged up.

 

[norsmis]

Did anyone here actually bother to read that thread on CornSnakes.com where I presented my arguments? Does anyone here even realize that I sold all my animals as of early December?

And does anyone here understand that we are talking about OPINIONS concerning "right" and "wrong", and no one has displayed any attributes that I would consider them as being the holder of some absolute truth of these matters? Sorry, but YOUR opinion is just that. YOUR opinion. I am under no obligation whatsoever to accept YOUR opinion based on mere speculation over MINE regardless of your desires that this will be the case.

Sorry, but I have my opinions in such matters and you may have yours. These are fully expressed in that thread I mentioned earlier. I have no intention of duplicating the bulk of that argument here nor elsewhere. Especially when it became obvious to me that the arguments were simply becoming redundant, completely lacking in any FACTS whatsoever, and purely based on emotions stemming from the current political situation. That and the simple matter that this discussion is all in the PAST tenses anyway, which seems to have completely escaped most people's attention.

So let me reiterate here. I have sold ALL of my animals as of early December. There are NO animals remaining here at my facility whatsoever. There are no animals to BE released at all.

I have heard all the arguments presented, and presented my side of the arguments in full detail. You may disagree with my opinions, and I obviously disagree with your opinions. But that is all they are: OPINIONS. Not one single solitary person has shown me even a shred of evidence that my releasing corns has had any reasonable probability of being harmful in any way. Possible harm? Well sure. But there is also the possibility that every time I drive a vehicle that I may run into a school bus and kill all the children in it. Unfathomable as it may seem, I still choose to take that drive anyway.

So if you do not understand my point of few, and/or simply disagree with it regardless of your ability to provide a rational argument containing facts and evidence of harm, then you have nothing to offer in this issue as far as FACTS are concerned. I have released corn snakes within their native range and that is that. I chose to give them a chance to live, if they could, rather then simply euthanizing them. Call me a softie at heart, if you will, but I felt it much better for those animals to be given a chance, however slim, rather then them having NO chance whatsoever. Those animals were NOT unhealthy in the sense of having probable pathogens, but instead were animals that just acted as they did not care to be in captivity. This could be from the reluctant feed response towards mice, or the rubbing of the nose to the point where debilitating damage would have been the likely result. Or maybe they just were aggressive enough where it was obvious that they didn't like being around people at all. Obviously UNHEALTHY animals, or those that could not possibly survive, were euthanized. For babies, it was three attempts with pinky mice or out the door to find whatever the heck it was they wanted to feed on. And that was really only a short period of time anyway, as I had a wholesaler who bought even the non-feeders from me for the last several years. Prior to that period Connie would nearly kill herself trying to get those stubborn SOBs to take pinky mice. So yes, there was a period of time between when I preferred letting those pain in the asses go rather than watching my wife beat herself to death over them.

So that is that, in my opinion.

If you want any further elaboration on this, sorry, but I have done that in spades in that other thread, and can't see any reason to keep on repeating myself here. If you all want to get pissed at me for my actions, then so be it. I was much more concerned with giving those animals a chance at life then worrying about what someone else may think about my choices in such matters.

You are correct Rich, it is MY opinion that what you did was wrong and it is YOUR opinion that it wasnt... the problem with YOUR opinion is it could help the cause of banning my hobby.... my opinion doesnt hurt you one bit.
The facts are all there so I am done with this. Just know Rich that I lost a lot of respect for you when you POSTED this on an open forum for all to see....

 

[WebSlave]

You are correct Rich, it is MY opinion that what you did was wrong and it is YOUR opinion that it wasnt... the problem with YOUR opinion is it could help the cause of banning my hobby.... my opinion doesnt hurt you one bit.
The facts are all there so I am done with this. Just know Rich that I lost a lot of respect for you when you POSTED this on an open forum for all to see....

Just out of curiosity, who is it that is trying to make this molehill into a mountain which will then be much more likely to catch the attention of HSUS, etc? Quite frankly, those forces could care less about the releasing of corns in their native habitat. It's not an argument they could really ever win any PR points over. It will have no front page appeal to anyone. It is YOU who is trying hard to give them the ammunition they need by making your opinion appear to be some sort of majority consensus and a rallying point. Look at some of the posts here and see what I mean.

So yeah, go ahead and make this into the mountain that avalanches down on YOUR head. If that is what you want to do, then by all means do so.

As for my losing some respect because I did what I felt was best for those animals I had in my care, I guess that's the way it is. There will always be opinions to the contrary about everything I do, no matter what it is. Imagine the shock and dismay from some factions had I stated that I threw every snake that seemed to be unhappy with being in captivity into the freezer. Then had I taken some animals to shows and given them away, people would be bitching that I was crashing the market by doing that, since the people who took those freebies might not buy an animal from THEM as a result.

Actually at one time I used to take problem feeder corns to shows and sold them dirt cheap, marking them as such so people knew what they were getting into. And you know what happened? Some unscrupulous dealers at those shows would buy them and put them out on their own tables marked up in price and marked as "newly hatched" to unsuspecting buyers. So was that a GOOD alternative for me to do with those problem feeder corns? I didn't believe so, so I stopped that practice once I determined it was going on.

I really don't have any interest in trying to make any effort to try to please everyone with what I do. I will do what I feel is best, regardless of the fact that it might piss off some and lose me someone's respect in the process. That has always been par for this course.

 

[snowgyre]

Rich, I realize this thread is pretty antagonistic. That is why I asked if anybody contacted you about it. I hold no hard feelings against you, I was simply trying to inform you why I know the release of captive corn snakes is bad for local ecology, genetics, and the welfare of the animals themselves. I am actually a wildlife biologist getting my PhD at the University of Georgia. I understand the impacts of the reptile trade better than most.

I am relieved that you have sold all your animals instead of releasing all of them. Thank you for doing that. While I really can't approve that you released some animals into the wild for a variety of reasons, I understand you did it because you felt you were doing the right thing. However, euthanasia is sometimes necessary. In the future, if you or any of your friends consider releasing captive animals, please contact the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission. They are known for being level headed and helpful, and they can certainly provide you with facts that you may not accept from an moderately anonymous online person such as myself.

I apologize for the lack of professionalism in this thread. However, the reptile community in general is defensive right now and rightly so. If you ever get into reptiles again, please know that there are a few people who can look at a situation objectively and give you sound advice.