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Info Yaz Mansour and the dead Boa

Low class, Yaz....just low class.

Yes, by all means, verify what you have been told. If/when you find that this boa's death was not attributed to David's actions, but rather an underlying condition (whether known or unknown by you), due the right thing and refund him the full amount. Consider it a blessing if he does not ask for the additional costs incurred to provide the required proof.

If it happens to be proven that the animal's death is due to his husbandry over the brief period of time the boa was in his care, you owe him nothing.
 
That makes sense Mike.

I have told him this whole time he will get a refund. Before the animal died I told him he would get a refund because of the vet fee. When the animal DID die, he was requesting almost all his money back. I disagreed considering I didnt know why/how the boa died considering he was healthy when I shipped him out and I didnt hear anything from David for days after the boa arrived (so I assumed the boa was fine and dandy). Well if he wants that big of a refund back I need to make sure that it was a prior condition that killed him. I have no problem with giving him his money back but I need to make sure that the boa didnt from from his care. Thats all I'm wanting to do, I want to see the report to make the decision about the refund. Thats what I have been saying all along.
 
I disagree... WHENEVER you take someone's money in exchange for an item, you have engaged IN A BUSINESS TRANSACTION. You might not be an "official" business, but when you put yourself in a position of taking someone's money in exchange for something YOU ARE TO PROVIDE to them, you are a businessman, like it or not. And in business, all mishaps that occur OUTSIDE THE BUYER'S CONTROL are the SOLE responsibility of the seller to rectify.

Why should there be a clear distinction between "Joe Bob" taking "Jimmy's" money for a snake and not delivering, and a 'reputable seller' taking "Jimmy's" money for a snake and not delivering? This is one reason that we HAVE so many of these threads... people think "Oh, I'm not a business, it's no big deal". When you accept someone's money in exchange for a good or service you will provide, "fair" goes out the window. You MUST provide your customer (yes, customer) exactly what they paid for, and if you can't, or things happen to negate the transaction that were outside the buyer's control, then you give that customer their money back, as you were unable to provide a satisfactory good or service in exchange for that money.

Look at it this way... maybe this Yaz guy is planning on being a "legit" business someday. His signature talks about an upcoming website, it would appear he is at least trying to make more money than he spends at this. That means he's attempting to make a profit, which makes him a businessman. If he wants to GET to the 'reputable dealer' or 'I do this full time' point, why should how he handles a situation like this change? If he handles it correctly now, then he will handle it correctly in the 'big time'. If he cannot handle it correctly now, how does he expect people to take him seriously in the future, when he might in fact be doing a decent volume of sales?

Apparently you've never sold a car as a private SELLER. There are different standards, like it or not, for the party "types" involved in a transaction. Either way, we can disagree and still be friends, lol. But I will add, I'm not entirely sure it's in the best interest of a business to take the word of a customer over the internet sight unseen. In general to get a full refund the item is returned, which is entirely impossible in this case, and that's exactly why the data has to be there.

...and to reiterate, the proof is in the pudding. The OP may very well be right, it's just a matter of showing us he is and at that point there's really no arguement.
 
Chris, I called twice and they wont release information to me because I'm not David. David needs to call and authorize that they can speak with me. I even talked to the vet who did the necropsy but she wont release anything to me unless David calls and says its ok or we are on a conference call. So I am waiting here considering I was told last night I would get a call today and I have gotten nothing.
 
I just spoke to David on the phone and he does have a report. It does not give all the details simply because the lab report isnt back yet. He has had a few business meetings this afternoon and other "life" events. He will be on shortly.
 
I have no problem with giving him his money back but I need to make sure that the boa didnt from from his care.

So your going to do a full refund if the report shows that it died to no doing of davids or are we back at the amount you think is reasonable?
 
Apparently you've never sold a car as a private SELLER. There are different standards, like it or not, for the party "types" involved in a transaction. Either way, we can disagree and still be friends, lol. But I will add, I'm not entirely sure it's in the best interest of a business to take the word of a customer over the internet sight unseen. In general to get a full refund the item is returned, which is entirely impossible in this case, and that's exactly why the data has to be there.

...and to reiterate, the proof is in the pudding. The OP may very well be right, it's just a matter of showing us he is and at that point there's really no arguement.

Well, yes and no... for a one-time or occasional private seller of a single vehicle, yes, you are correct. I doubt highly that someone who's had, as the seller is putting it, "tons of past deals" is exactly considered to be a "private seller", as in the car example. I was assuming a history of selling, and the seller seems to back that up, and so was foregoing caveats that would possibly absolve the very occasional or one-time private sellers... :)

And I've never once disputed that he has every right to see the proof of the accusation... I think that he does. What I object to is the repeated assertion that no matter what, the buyer is not due a full refund, period. That there is this strange "unknown rule" that everyone's supposed to know that states that any buyer in a sale that goes south with someone who's not a full-time seller is expected to "take a hit", just because the seller is a "hobbyist". This attitude is wrong, and is the specific thing I'm against. I've not stood up for the OP's claims in the least bit, I'm discussing the business principles here.

I think the seller would still have most people's respect with about a 4-line post:

"Man, I am so sorry about this boa's death... can you please provide pictures so I can confirm identity and death? I swear I didn't see anything wrong with him before shipping him out, but boas can sometimes mask illness until it's too late. If it turns out that we can establish proof that this boa was in compromised health before I shipped him, you can expect a full refund of your purchase price."

There, problem solved. The seller is free to then pursue the necropsy results as proof of death and pathology, and everyone knows that he intends to fully compensate his customer if the results show the customer was not at fault. To date, the seller's attitude has not only been "I need more proof, more proof, and more proof (this is fine, and to be expected somewhat)", it has been "No matter what proof I see, even if it's a slam dunk that the boa's health was poor before it was shipped, you're not getting all your money back anyway because I've lost a beautiful boa blah blah blah blah waaaaaaaah". The seller is basically trying to trade sympathy for trade equity, which is entirely not the customer's concern, and entirely irrelevant to what the right outcome is for the buyer.

I agree with you, basically. :)
 


I never accused you of not knowing anything. You suggested that I was "smoking somehting" when I said that $65 seemed about right since it wasn't being treated, just necropsied. I didn't say you didn't know anything, you proved you were ignorant about autopsy prices yourself. YOU are the one who acted as if I knew nothing about the price of a necropsy. You are the one who is wrong. I don't care what your vet charges for a necropsy. If David took the snake to your vet, would you pay back $390 plus the $237 if it was proven to be a pre-existing condition? Or would you just make him eat that and say " I told him not to do it". A lot of your defense is shady, and I am sure that if you said you were going to give him a full refund when the report comes in, you wouldn't be here now.
 
He will get his $390 back if the ending report says the boa died from something prior to shipping. If the report comes back and it wasnt prior to shipping, he gets nothing.

I was fine with negoatiating a refund (and GOING TO GIVE HIM ONE) before this necropsy was even done BUT he insisted on a bigger refund than I wanted to give. I didnt know how the boa died so I didnt want to issue that big of a refund. If your animal just dies out of no where when it was healthy in your care, I dont think many people would just say "oh ok, it died no problem, heres your money back, no questions asked". I wanted to know how that boa died if I was going to send the full refund (or close to the full amount) I received that David insisted to get.
 
He will get his $390 back if the ending report says the boa died from something prior to shipping. If the report comes back and it wasnt prior to shipping, he gets nothing.

I was fine with negoatiating a refund (and GOING TO GIVE HIM ONE) before this necropsy was even done BUT he insisted on a bigger refund than I wanted to give. I didnt know how the boa died so I didnt want to issue that big of a refund. If your animal just dies out of no where when it was healthy in your care, I dont think many people would just say "oh ok, it died no problem, heres your money back, no questions asked". I wanted to know how that boa died if I was going to send the full refund (or close to the full amount) I received that David insisted to get.

Hey Yaz,

No one is disputing that you knew the snake was sick in your care, not even the OP. As for the 250.00 that the OP mentioned about, I personally didnt think that 250.00 was too much to ask being that the Boa died within 4 days of receiving it.

While I am in agreement with you, you do deserve some sort or knowledge as to why the boa died, not just hearsay. I am glad to see that you would do a full refund if the Necropsy shows the snake being ill prior to shipment. I would also suggest that if the tests does not show negligence by the OP, you should work some sort of deal out with him, at least something.

Turn this transaction around and it can end up being a good guy thread with tons of potential buyers knocking at your door, even if you are not at fault. The one thing you HAVE to give credit to the OP for is the simple fact that he wasnt trying to label you a bad guy anywhere in this thread. He just wanted some sort of negotiation with you to recoup some of his loss.

Now, I am a firm beliver (without the Necropsy report at hand) that you did not knowingly ship out an ill snake. I am also a firm believer that the OP did not practice bad husbandry and killed the snake. If he did, he wouldnt have a Necropsy done. I am sure he wants to know why the snake died just as much as you do.

Either way, I am here to help the both of you come to sort of agreement if you need me.
 
Thanks Dean, your the man! :thumbsup:

David:"Get your evidence tomorrow morning and lets call the vet! What time can you be available?"

I have been waiting to talk to the vet. I called them twice myself today.
 
He will get his $390 back if the ending report says the boa died from something prior to shipping. If the report comes back and it wasnt prior to shipping, he gets nothing.


That is all I have been looking for! Good work. Maybe this can be turned around after all. I agree that David should get nothing if it isn't preexisting.
 
Thanks Dean, your the man! :thumbsup:

Yaz, I am just someone who is passionate about our hobby and the good people in it. I dont know either one of you personally but I know you two can hammer something out here. But Yaz, take all of my advice as a whole, not just certain parts. Definiely work something out with David, even if the report is not conclusive as to whos fault it is/was.
 
I will work something out. David and I will chat anytime he is available and once we see the report we will do the refund transaction from there.

David will get some type of refund even if it wasnt pre-existing. He doesnt deserve to get screwed like that and not recieve anything. He had great intentions with my large boa (educational purposes etc.) so he should get something in return from this. Either way, I think hes a great honest guy, but I just am a 'need proof' kind of person. This was our first deal together so I was very suspicious how that boa just died out of no where. I'm sure anyone would be and David also said he would be just as questionable if this happened the other way around. Anyways, I am open to give a full refund if this is pre-existing. If its not, he will still get a partial refund which we can chat about. Sorry this happened man, I apologize for being so jumpy, I am just overwhelmed and shocked this happened to my boa.
 
I will work something out. David and I will chat anytime he is available and once we see the report we will do the refund transaction from there.

David will get some type of refund even if it wasnt pre-existing. He doesnt deserve to get screwed like that and not recieve anything. He had great intentions with my large boa (educational purposes etc.) so he should get something in return from this. Either way, I think hes a great honest guy, but I just am a 'need proof' kind of person. This was our first deal together so I was very suspicious how that boa just died out of no where. I'm sure anyone would be and David also said he would be just as questionable if this happened the other way around. Anyways, I am open to give a full refund if this is pre-existing. If its not, he will still get a partial refund which we can chat about. Sorry this happened man, I apologize for being so jumpy, I am just overwhelmed and shocked this happened to my boa.

Now we are getting somewhere! Thank you for NOT letting me down :thumbsup:
 
2 days? All this in a two day period? It's good to know people will champion someone they think is right, but in a two day period where the "proof" won't be in for five more days yet? Shucks, fellows, back off and let the dust settle around these two guys without trying to goad them into some needless statements or actions .....or just jump on me! Yeah thats the ticket!
Seriously, when I first saw the length of this thread and read the first page without noting the date, I figured I could read to the end and find out the conclusion.... that is 'till I noticed the dates. I don't know either dog in this fight, but it looks like the best way to let THEM END IT is to see what happens when the report comes in, not to try to trump the action up. Is this the repticzone? (Guess that one mighta' stung, but it seemed like it might have been). Signed: NOT A TROLL< just amazed at the action here!

SNAKEBUZ
 
2 days? All this in a two day period? It's good to know people will champion someone they think is right, but in a two day period where the "proof" won't be in for five more days yet? Shucks, fellows, back off and let the dust settle around these two guys without trying to goad them into some needless statements or actions .....or just jump on me! Yeah thats the ticket!
Seriously, when I first saw the length of this thread and read the first page without noting the date, I figured I could read to the end and find out the conclusion.... that is 'till I noticed the dates. I don't know either dog in this fight, but it looks like the best way to let THEM END IT is to see what happens when the report comes in, not to try to trump the action up. Is this the repticzone? (Guess that one mighta' stung, but it seemed like it might have been). Signed: NOT A TROLL< just amazed at the action here!

SNAKEBUZ


Wow, thank you for being reasonable. That's EXACTLY what I've been saying.
 
I just want this to end and end correctly. If neither of us get screwed totally that would be cool, but things like this happen sometimes and I guess we'll all experience it one day or another. This was the first time anything like this has happened to me, so I apologize if I seemed angry and rude to anyone, I was/am purely shocked how this happened to a snake I had for 2 years and never had one single problem with. My emotions I'm sure played a role too...he was my 'huge' baby. David feel free to speak, not saying much lol.
 
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