Info Yaz Mansour and the dead Boa

[Southern Wolf]

No problem Jason. I'll post pics when she has the clutch (in the Boa discussion forum).

You know what, I was planning on responding to Kevin and Randal's posts but Im not going to waste time on your useless replies. You keep digging and twisting words its getting rediculous. Find a life and go live it.

I ask valid questions and/or make what appear to be valid assessments... and you call them useless replies.

Yaz... you just made my job easier.

I have mates for all my boas except my Super Jungle Female.... Looks like you are out at least one possible sale. I dont really need a seller that wont answer questions when asked. When Im spending that kind of money (not pairing her up with a normal)... its nice to have the piece of mind who you spend it with will answer the questions you ask, or work to fix problems should they arrise. (If you dout I have the snake... do a search here where I started a BOI thread about her taking a tour of the SE US via UPS's screw up.... she is pictured in the thread)

For the most part... I was riding the fence on this one. I try to think about... what if I was in that spot. There are some things that you have done.. .that I too would have probably done.... however there are a few things that I wouldnt.

You throw out accusation after accusation towards the buyer.... and at least 3 times changed the amount of the refund. Now it is made known that it is a partial refund (which the buyer is supposed to be happy with.... good for him).

But I can bet everyone that views the BOI and reads these threads does the same thing during and after the thread. They ask themselves (in some form)... would I do business with this person? and honestly... that question could be posed from anyone that posts in the threads... not just the buyers and sellers.

I had a valid assessment of the situation... whether you agree or not. Let me remind you

Its relevant because Yaz has tried to drop the refund price on multiple occasions.... even to the point of saying that he only wanted to refund his profit amount. Would you really want to do business with him in the future knowing he might try the same with you?

The fact that he was REQUIRING a report BEFORE a refund was issued... how bout... did he compensate the buyer for part of the costs since he was requiring that report. Yes... I know the buyer decided to get the lab work done... but Yaz wouldn't issue the refund without it.

After the prelim report was posted you (Yaz) contacted the buyer via phone to work on a refund amount. I applaud and commend you on that. But after all the numbers that have been thrown around in this thread... why not post the deal for all to see. From my point of view... its like you are hiding something. As I stated earlier... while I am looking thru (and sometimes commenting) on the BOI... I am also lookin for future potential sellers for animals I am interested in. (I have done a few business transactions already from people that I have contacted directly from a BOI post)

I think I saw somewhere the buyer was ORIGINALLY just after the cost of the animal and he would eat the shipping costs.... If this was the case of the refund... why not post it. Or was the refund one of the lower amounts you posted and thats why your not putting it out there.

You wouldnt issue a refund without the report... so did you refund part/all of the lab fees? Its a valid question.

Without answering these questions... it looks like your trying to hide something... especially with all the numbers floating around in this thread.

But your right..... the buyer agreed to the refunded amount... and technically this problem is solved. HOWEVER... if I have these questions from reading this thread... you can bet others will as well.... and we all are/were potential customers of yours.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Dave, when you said "Your snake having babies wont change the sex of the snake.If it is male, it always was. If it is female, same thing."

Well if my female here as babies how is it possible for that final report to state female? If it does state female, then the necropsy would be wrong? Healthy babies that were produced from impregnating herself? My boa should be on tv if thats the case. I know you mentioned something about boas impregnating themselves and then having all slugs or all females that are identical to the mom, but what if their not identical? What if their all healthy babies that look like their DAD? Then what? Necropsy was wrong as odd as that is?

Now your trying to discredit science?

I will admit... Like you.... Im perplexed with the strange turn of events on the possible sex of the animal. I have a question.. .and Im not implying anything by it.... I ask this because I really dont know.

Wouldnt the overies and testicles of snakes be in two different locations?

I forget how the prelim report was worded... but if they found the circular objects (suspected to be overies) where the overies should be... and nothing where the testicles should be... then wouldn't it be a given that it is indeed female?

Maybe our vet tech from memphis can chime in if she is familiar with the locations of such items in snakes.

 

[rjarosek]

I agree with Kevin.

I have been following this thread from the beginning. I can tell you this. I pretty much know now what to expect if I were to do business with Yaz and something strange were to happen. He has made the Do not buy list. On the other hand the OP I would do business with anytime.

Sorry but thats what I got out of this thread. I am sure many others have come to the same conclusion.

Its not what the conclusion was it is how it came about. I would like to know the end $$$ amount, but to be honest at this point it does not matter. A quick response of it was this amount yadda yadda would have gone a long way with me. As once again I would know what to expect and be able to decide for myself if it was fair enough. May have changed my mind about do not buy in the future. Instead it was the final nail.

Thats just me thought I would give my $.02

 

[Payara]

Just my 2 cents:

This whole situation sucks for both David and Yaz. I too was curious about the $ but at this point it really doesn't matter. Both parties in this transaction are happy and like the thread said, they (both David and Yaz) came to a agreement and as long as they are satisfied what's the difference.

I would do business with both gentlemen. David throughout this whole process was calm and cool and seems like a nice guy, plus he got some wicked beardies. Yaz cares about his animals, and that's probably why he was emotional when people attacked him about the quality of his animals, I don't blame him.

Like most of you I'd like to see the final findings.

 

[Yaz23]

Thank you Koshy.

For the rest of the ones who seem to never end. I was debating whether to just ignore this thread or not. The deal is done yet you continue. I will state this ONE more time so read it thoroughly WITHOUT twisting words and saying things that I NEVER said. I am extremely tired of this nonsense and could care less about this thread anymore because its done.

Kevin, RE-READ the thread. Stop making up You said this: "You wouldnt issue a refund without the report... so did you refund part/all of the lab fees? Its a valid question."

My VALID answer is this: I STATED MANY TIMES I WOULD GIVE HIM A REFUND WHETHER OR NOT THE NECROPSY WAS DONE BEFORE HE EVEN CHOSE TO DO IT. On top of that BEFORE the snake even died when he called Thursday to tell me the boa was sick out of no where I agreed to compensate him for the Vet because I could understand that possibly the shipping caused him to become sick. BUT when he died I looked at it in a different perspective and was more suspicious maybe something happened to the snake while he was there. I think that is what anyone would think.

To answer your question about the location of ovaries on females and testis on males, they are located in the same place on both genders. So this "possibly female" still may be a male.

I will also say this, its very aggravating that this seemed to be thrown on me like its my fault. IT WAS NOT. My animal was healthy and never had any problems for 2 years. Maybe there was an underlying condition I had not known about which I didnt know and couldnt tell that isnt something I could have known prior to shipping because I simply knew he was a great animal and never had a single issue with him before I shipped him. I was told he was a male when I bought him, he was probed a couple times and was probed a male, and he bred with a female and now that female is gravid. So when I posted my ad I posted him as a MALE obviously. Now this whole situation flipped backwards. My snake died out of no where and now he is 'possibly female'. I am a million times more shocked and confused than anyone here because I AM THE ONE that had the snake for 2 YEARS and NONE of this makes any sense. I dont see how this is related to me and my business and selling simply for the fact that I sold a HEALTHY ANIMAL that I had for 2 years that never had a problem (anyone would say the snake is healthy based off of that), and considering the probing and breeding successfully to a female I posted him up as a male. I obviously stated him correctly in my ads for his health and his sex. I didnt do anything wrong in this situation. I told David I'd compensate him for the vet when he called to say the snake was sick before he even died. Then he called and said the snake died. At that point the situation was totally different. The snake wasnt sick, the snake was dead. Everyone knows a snake can get sick in transit, not to too uncommon, but when a snake dies days later and you knew you sent out a good animal you had for years, that becomes a different story I'd think to anyone.

 

[Yaz23]

I have sold tons of animals and NOTHING has ever gone wrong. This is the FIRST time something like this has happened. So if you want to throw me under the bus because of an animal I labeled correctly in an ad and then died out of no where and I had him for 2 years with no problems, I have the right to be suspicous and ANYONE WOULD if that animal just dies out of no where days after you shipped it out. I am very confused on why people are saying give a full refund now or give a refund plus lab fee, etc. when YOU would be wondering why the animal died before you sent a refund. If you had the animal for 2 years and no problems then you shipped it to someone and it dies 4 days later, I dont think you'd hop on board and say "oh ok, damn that sucks, heres a full refund" without wondering what the hell happened. So honestly think about it in my standpoint. Its not like he ARRIVED sick and died the same day. He arrived FINE and was FINE for 2 1/2 days and then got sick and died the following day. I'd think if you were the seller you'd wonder how that happened. Not all people throw out refunds based on "The snake died, it sucks, but just give me my money back and it's all good" type of scenario.

 

[aleria]

Thank you Koshy.

For the rest of the ones who seem to never end. I was debating whether to just ignore this thread or not. The deal is done yet you continue. I will state this ONE more time so read it thoroughly WITHOUT twisting words and saying things that I NEVER said. I am extremely tired of this nonsense and could care less about this thread anymore because its done.


Kevin, RE-READ the thread. Stop making up You said this: "You wouldnt issue a refund without the report... so did you refund part/all of the lab fees? Its a valid question."

My VALID answer is this: I STATED MANY TIMES I WOULD GIVE HIM A REFUND WHETHER OR NOT THE NECROPSY WAS DONE BEFORE HE EVEN CHOSE TO DO IT. On top of that BEFORE the snake even died when he called Thursday to tell me the boa was sick out of no where I agreed to compensate him for the Vet because I could understand that possibly the shipping caused him to become sick. BUT when he died I looked at it in a different perspective and was more suspicious maybe something happened to the snake while he was there. I think that is what anyone would think.

Not even remotely close to answering the question. So let me try since even I have asked this. IF THE TEST COMES BACK SHOWING DEFINITIVELY THAT THE ILLNESS WAS PRESENT BEFORE SALE, WHETHER YOU REALIZED IT OR NOT, SINCE YOU STATED MULTIPLE TIMES THAT A(FULL AT ONE POINT) REFUND WAS DEPENDANT UPON PROOF FROM THE NECROPSY, WILL YOU BE COMPENSATING HIM FOR THOSE TESTING FEES?
Yes he has already stated that he is happy with the current refund given, but the answer to this question is not for him, it is for those of us that have been involved in the thread and would like to know how things may or may not be dealt with in the future. You are not always going to end up with a buyer that is willing to be so generous in his acceptance of what you find an acceptable resolution.

To answer your question about the location of ovaries on females and testis on males, they are located in the same place on both genders. So this "possibly female" still may be a male.

I will also say this, its very aggravating that this seemed to be thrown on me like its my fault. IT WAS NOT. My animal was healthy and never had any problems for 2 years. Maybe there was an underlying condition I had not known about which I didnt know and couldnt tell that isnt something I could have known prior to shipping because I simply knew he was a great animal and never had a single issue with him before I shipped him. I was told he was a male when I bought him, he was probed a couple times and was probed a male, and he bred with a female and now that female is gravid. So when I posted my ad I posted him as a MALE obviously. Now this whole situation flipped backwards. My snake died out of no where and now he is 'possibly female'. I am a million times more shocked and confused than anyone here because I AM THE ONE that had the snake for 2 YEARS and NONE of this makes any sense. I dont see how this is related to me and my business and selling simply for the fact that I sold a HEALTHY ANIMAL that I had for 2 years that never had a problem (anyone would say the snake is healthy based off of that), and considering the probing and breeding successfully to a female I posted him up as a male. I obviously stated him correctly in my ads for his health and his sex. I didnt do anything wrong in this situation. I told David I'd compensate him for the vet when he called to say the snake was sick before he even died. Then he called and said the snake died. At that point the situation was totally different. The snake wasnt sick, the snake was dead. Everyone knows a snake can get sick in transit, not to too uncommon, but when a snake dies days later and you knew you sent out a good animal you had for years, that becomes a different story I'd think to anyone.

And overall for this nice long paragraph, for a true reputable seller, if something comes up with an animal they sell that was obviously there prior to the sale, even if the seller had absolutely no clue, they will apologize and give a full refund. At least that is how I've seen it done with all good guys. It doesn't matter if you never noticed the problem, if it is fully proven the illness was present before sale, whether noticed or not, that should be covered by you and you alone. Sure it's nice for you that this seller was comfortable with a partial refund, but not everyone out there would settle for something like that. And that is where these further questions are coming from.

 

[aleria]

Also to note, none of my above questions or comments are made with any form of malice and are in no way an attack on you. Just something that I would simply like to see an answer to that seem to be glossed over or avoided time and time again, as I myself have asked these same questions before and saw nothing but "we don't know the results yet so it doesn't matter"(paraphrasing)

 

[spyder79]

I am glad yall were able to resolve this. While reading through this thread I deffinately feared the worse from Yaz as it appeared he was trying to make David out to be attempting a scam.

I will say that the test of a breeders merrit comes not from all the good transactions they have but from the way they handle a bad one and Yaz you did not handle this well. If you go back through and read your posts you will see that as well.

 

[MikeCurtin]

Yaz, the numerous good transactions you've had are great. However, I look at how a businessman deals with a problem in order to determine whether or not I would deal with him. From your words and actions here, I would have to say that I would be extremely hesitant to do business with you. It is unfortunate because I know you ultimately tried to do the right thing.....it just seems like it took a lot of convincing. I don't feel David would be seeing any refund had he not opted for the examinations that you initially tried to dissuade him from.

 

[Yaz23]

Mike, I will tell you that it did take convincing. Why? Because I had that snake for a couple years and believed it to be very healthy and a great animal. Then shipped off, it dies days later. I wanted to know how that was possible. Its never happened to me before, I dont think its happened to many people either. If someone has had a snake for a few months and doesnt really know the snakes condition and then sells it and it dies thats not nearly the same thing as to knowing that snake front and back and its health for 2 years and then it dying days after its in someone elses care. My only thought was that possibly the thermostat failed, possibly some type of cleaning solution, or something of that nature that killed him. David isnt out to get me, but those are questions that I think most people would be asking as well if they were in my position. It doesnt seem logical in my eyes that a snake was fine in my care for 2 years and then dies 4 days after in someone elses care. It was just odd and was wanting to figure it out.

Sure I may have handled this situation on edge but I was concerned about what happened to my boa not sending a refund before anything was even figured out and answered on my behalf.

 

[Yaz23]

I will also say this, if I knew David could get it done for $60 or $65 I would have told him to go get it done. I didnt know that it was NEARLY that cheap until after he dropped the snake off and told me. I knew that my vet would charge a couple hundred to have a necropsy done so thats what I was basing my statement of David to not get one. I also called my vet to ask how much that exact snake would be to have a necropsy done and they stated $237. I wouldnt have told David to get one if it was that expensive thats why I told him to not get one.

 

[aleria]

Lets try this yet again....

Maybe I'm invisible... or not speaking english

Kevin, RE-READ the thread. Stop making up You said this: "You wouldnt issue a refund without the report... so did you refund part/all of the lab fees? Its a valid question."

My VALID answer is this: I STATED MANY TIMES I WOULD GIVE HIM A REFUND WHETHER OR NOT THE NECROPSY WAS DONE BEFORE HE EVEN CHOSE TO DO IT. On top of that BEFORE the snake even died when he called Thursday to tell me the boa was sick out of no where I agreed to compensate him for the Vet because I could understand that possibly the shipping caused him to become sick. BUT when he died I looked at it in a different perspective and was more suspicious maybe something happened to the snake while he was there. I think that is what anyone would think.

Not even remotely close to answering the question. So let me try since even I have asked this.
IF THE TEST COMES BACK SHOWING DEFINITIVELY THAT THE ILLNESS WAS PRESENT BEFORE SALE, WHETHER YOU REALIZED IT OR NOT, SINCE YOU STATED MULTIPLE TIMES THAT A(FULL AT ONE POINT) REFUND WAS DEPENDANT UPON PROOF FROM THE NECROPSY, WILL YOU BE COMPENSATING HIM FOR THOSE TESTING FEES?

Yes he has already stated that he is happy with the current refund given, but the answer to this question is not for him, it is for those of us that have been involved in the thread and would like to know how things may or may not be dealt with in the future. You are not always going to end up with a buyer that is willing to be so generous in his acceptance of what you find an acceptable resolution.

I will also say this, its very aggravating that this seemed to be thrown on me like its my fault. IT WAS NOT. My animal was healthy and never had any problems for 2 years. Maybe there was an underlying condition I had not known about which I didnt know and couldnt tell that isnt something I could have known prior to shipping because I simply knew he was a great animal and never had a single issue with him before I shipped him. I was told he was a male when I bought him, he was probed a couple times and was probed a male, and he bred with a female and now that female is gravid. So when I posted my ad I posted him as a MALE obviously. Now this whole situation flipped backwards. My snake died out of no where and now he is 'possibly female'. I am a million times more shocked and confused than anyone here because I AM THE ONE that had the snake for 2 YEARS and NONE of this makes any sense. I dont see how this is related to me and my business and selling simply for the fact that I sold a HEALTHY ANIMAL that I had for 2 years that never had a problem (anyone would say the snake is healthy based off of that), and considering the probing and breeding successfully to a female I posted him up as a male. I obviously stated him correctly in my ads for his health and his sex. I didnt do anything wrong in this situation. I told David I'd compensate him for the vet when he called to say the snake was sick before he even died. Then he called and said the snake died. At that point the situation was totally different. The snake wasnt sick, the snake was dead. Everyone knows a snake can get sick in transit, not to too uncommon, but when a snake dies days later and you knew you sent out a good animal you had for years, that becomes a different story I'd think to anyone.

And overall for this nice long paragraph, for a true reputable seller, if something comes up with an animal they sell that was obviously there prior to the sale, even if the seller had absolutely no clue, they will apologize and give a full refund. At least that is how I've seen it done with all good guys. It doesn't matter if you never noticed the problem, if it is fully proven the illness was present before sale, whether noticed or not, that should be covered by you and you alone. Sure it's nice for you that this seller was comfortable with a partial refund, but not everyone out there would settle for something like that. And that is where these further questions are coming from.

Now, rather than repeating yourself over and over and over again about how you told him not to get a necro because of cost, blah blah blah, just answer the questions asked, plainly, directly, and hell the ones I'm asking are pretty much yes or no.
If you seriously do not want to answer anything I've asked here, which is really only one main question, and then just a simple statement of opinion on the situation, then just say so. Pretending my posts aren't there isn't doing much good considering I'm watching you respond to posts immediately after mine with nice long answers.

 

[SPJ]

The one thing that bothers me about this thread is the fact that Yaz did not issue a full refund.
There should not have been anyarguing about "I only made this much" or "it cost this much to ship" or "the supplies cost this much" etc.
The only satisfactory solution IMO would have been a 100% refund of what the buyer sent Yaz.
Personally, I do not think this was handled very well at all.

 

[Yaz23]

Jessica, I thought I had answered your question I guess I didnt, sorry; considering this deal is done, it is over. I sent him a refund after we discussed how much. BUT, I want to clear everything up and considering you are correct, if this final report clearly states that the reason he died was prior to shipping he will be compensated for the remainder amount of the full $390 he paid me. So he will have a full refund. If anything happens to an animal and a necropsy is done and proves that it was prior to shipping, a full refund makes sense. However, if it doesnt show that it was prior to shipping then what? Do I get the money back I already sent him?

 

[aleria]

Jessica, I thought I had answered your question I guess I didnt, sorry; considering this deal is done, it is over. I sent him a refund after we discussed how much. BUT, I want to clear everything up and considering you are correct, if this final report clearly states that the reason he died was prior to shipping he will be compensated for the remainder amount of the full $390 he paid me. So he will have a full refund. If anything happens to an animal and a necropsy is done and proves that it was prior to shipping, a full refund makes sense. However, if it doesnt show that it was prior to shipping then what? Do I get the money back I already sent him?

Thank you for that direct and complete answer.
And truthfully I am one of the ones that I believe stated, and if not, agree that no refund should have been sent prior to the final report. There was no major rush for the money to be exchanged, no dire need for it. So I definitely agreed when you first stated that you wanted to wait and believe that is what should have been done.
Doing any type of refund on just a prelim report is a bit premature as this is what can happen. Sure, if it does show the condition was pre-existing then you can very easily send the remainder of the refund. But if it comes back showing otherwise, then you will both be back to going over the whole agreement allllll over again and deciding how much should be sent back to you, how much is fair, etc. etc.
But yes, knowing that you will agree to a full complete refund if the final report does show that the condition was pre-existing makes me feel a little better about you as a business man.

 

[chris allen]

BUT, I want to clear everything up and considering you are correct, if this final report clearly states that the reason he died was prior to shipping he will be compensated for the remainder amount of the full $390 he paid me.

That is the right thing to do, and you should have just said this from the beginning.

I still feel that being you required the necropsy report for a refund, that it too should be refunded if it shows the snake died from an existing condition.

 

[rjarosek]

That is the right thing to do, and you should have just said this from the beginning.

I still feel that being you required the necropsy report for a refund, that it too should be refunded if it shows the snake died from an existing condition.

 

[rjarosek]

Yaz, If it was a result of the OPs husbandry or something that happened that was out of your control after he recieved the snake. IMO I think you should get your money back.

 

[tinmantribe5]

I think the Saddest thing in the End is that a guy paid 395.00+ to have a Boa For a couple days wich would make any of us Madd as hell!
I would hate to think how much further this thread would have went without this Autopsy?
I think when you buy something of value it should be no different than any other contract you should at least get a Min of 3 days good faith like when buying a car or anything else
If its not right or dies in that 72 hour Period from Posesion it should always fall back on the seller! Sorry just my Opinion (What happend to good ole customer service and standing behind your Product) I hate to say it Yaz but this will haunt you for a long time.
Well sometimes its easier to just bite the Bullet!