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Bad Guy Fire and Ice Dragons (Terri Sommella)

J

joshjtd

New member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
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Location
Rapid City, SD
Well the saying of hind sight is always 20/20 is proven true yet again. In doing research here, I have come across many negative reviews of this breeder. My experience is similar to the others.

My story starts out Apr. 30th 2010 (I paypal'd her the cash this day). I was looking for quality breeders of bearded dragons (before I stumbled upon fauna) and ran across fireandicedragons.com. I was in awe at the color of her dragons and very much wanted one of them as my own. I went to her for sale page and noticed she had a clutch that would be hatching on 6-7-10. I emailed Terri to see what the process was to obtain one of the babies for the Phonton x Mia clutch. She explained the pricing on the dragons and I opted for a holdback quality. This came with a hefty price but I was willing to pay for that color of dragon.

Terri and I exchanged emails about what to expect and when the dragon would ship. Terri stated that with a hatch date around 6-7-10, the dragons should be ready to go around the end of June. The end of June rolls around and I havent heard from Terri. I sent her an email asking when I should expect the dragon and get the following reply:

[email protected]
toJosh Davis <[email protected]>

dateWed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:29 PM
subjectRe: order

hide details Jul 7 (12 days ago)

Hi Josh,

You are. This clutch is not big enough to ship at 4 weeks though. The clutch hatched over a period of 10 days as they were in 2 separate incubators so that had something to do with it. Anyway, as soon as your dragon is ready, we will ship asap. I need the bin space!!!

By the way, it was 107 here yesterday. Cross your fingers for a cooling wave.

Regards,

Terri

I was concerned after this email but understand things happen. She followed up by telling me that it would be another 4 weeks before the dragons would be the correct weight and size for shipping. Now if you have an animal that is only 5-6" in eight weeks, something is not right.

I asked Terri for a refund as I do not want an unhealthy dragon and she states she offers no refunds. So here is sit with no dragon, no $345, and no hope of getting any help as I am past the time to file a complaint with paypal. I also gather that Terri does not use fauna so this will serve no other purpose but to warn others that they should not do business with fire and ice dragons.
 
Because the breeder does not want to ship a small dragon in extreme heat a boi thread was started? When it comes to shipping live animals, you have to wait for the right temperatures to ship.

The breeder also has a TOS on their site.
http://www.fireandicedragons.com/pricing.cfm

PAYMENT & SHIPPING

.....
Please note: No refunds are given on deposits for special order dragons or dragons held for International shipment before the dragon has shipped. Thank you.
 
I forgot to add, be patient and wait for the weather to cool down so that they can ship the special ordered (quality holdback) dragon.
 
Chrisw said:
Because the breeder does not want to ship a small dragon in extreme heat a boi thread was started? When it comes to shipping live animals, you have to wait for the right temperatures to ship.

The breeder also has a TOS on their site.
http://www.fireandicedragons.com/pricing.cfm

PAYMENT & SHIPPING

.....
Please note: No refunds are given on deposits for special order dragons or dragons held for International shipment before the dragon has shipped. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Please read the entire post before commenting. My issue is not that the reptile isn't here right now. I understand the weather putting a damper on shipping. I am not asking for her to endanger the animal.

If you read the post, you will see that the issue is that she is saying it will take 8+ weeks for the dragon to be atleast 10g and 5-6" in length. This is not a healthy animal.

I have suspicions as to why I am being told that the dragon will not be ready for another 4 weeks...
 
Also I was ordering from an already laid clutch. This was not a special order or and international shipping deal.
 
Josh,

Dragons grow at different paces. It's normal for babies to hit 6" at 8wks.

You mentioned the babies hatched sometime June... It's only about a month old.

Alot of breeders won't start selling their babies until they're atleast 8wks.

Have patience.
 
Chrisw said:
I forgot to add, be patient and wait for the weather to cool down so that they can ship the special ordered (quality holdback) dragon.
Click to expand...

the weather isnt the issue

shinezilla said:
Josh,

Dragons grow at different paces. It's normal for babies to hit 6" at 8wks.

You mentioned the babies hatched sometime June... It's only about a month old.

Alot of breeders won't start selling their babies until they're atleast 8wks.

Have patience.
Click to expand...

As i read though this i do not know if i buying into this.

As some would put it, i breed for the "shorter" line bearded dragons. I work with the Belgium line alot. A nice, healthy, dragon. That is shorter but stocky than most. In a 4 week period i can have my dragons at 6 inches and ready for retail. In a 8 week period the dragons have gone threw 3-4 sheds and are now somewhere around 10 inches. This is coming from a "smaller line" than most breed.
So the fact that it takes 8 weeks to get a baby bearded dragon to 6 inches, is NOT cutting it. I could feed dragons nothing but crickets and greens and it still would not take that long to get them to that size. IMO it sounds like she is stalling you.
So as it may have been alittle fast to post here, reading Terre's response doesnt sound "positive" to me. Maybe i missed it, but wouldn't she want to re-ensure that everything is okay? can she send you some pictures of the dragon she is holding for you? maybe that would makes this better on your end and her's? Hey if shes got it why cant she send some pictures?
 
dragonluver83 said:
the weather isnt the issue



As i read though this i do not know if i buying into this.

As some would put it, i breed for the "shorter" line bearded dragons. I work with the Belgium line alot. A nice, healthy, dragon. That is shorter but stocky than most. In a 4 week period i can have my dragons at 6 inches and ready for retail. In a 8 week period the dragons have gone threw 3-4 sheds and are now somewhere around 10 inches. This is coming from a "smaller line" than most breed.
So the fact that it takes 8 weeks to get a baby bearded dragon to 6 inches, is NOT cutting it. I could feed dragons nothing but crickets and greens and it still would not take that long to get them to that size. IMO it sounds like she is stalling you.
So as it may have been alittle fast to post here, reading Terre's response doesnt sound "positive" to me. Maybe i missed it, but wouldn't she want to re-ensure that everything is okay? can she send you some pictures of the dragon she is holding for you? maybe that would makes this better on your end and her's? Hey if shes got it why cant she send some pictures?
Click to expand...

This is my thoughts exactly. What I think happened, is that she over sold the clutch. If you look on her site, the Mia x Photon clutch has two dates as dragons often produce more than one clutch. The hatch dates at 6-7-10 and the other one of 7-3-10. In the original email should told me that the dragon would ship the end of June. Now if it was due to weather, I fully understand a delay, but another 4 weeks because the dragons are taking twice as long to grow is odd.

I will also note that I am very familiar with bearded dragons. I have 8 of them at home and have done tons of research. I know that every animal is different but in talking to many of the breeders here, they sell there hatchlings at 6" and four weeks.
 
My point of contention is that I was told I was on the list for the first clutch. It appears to me that she over sold and I got put on the second clutch. This was not the orignal agreement.
 
joshjtd said:
My point of contention is that I was told I was on the list for the first clutch. It appears to me that she over sold and I got put on the second clutch. This was not the orignal agreement.
Click to expand...

I will agree with that. But somthings NOT right in this situation.
 
dragonluver83 said:
the weather isnt the issue



As i read though this i do not know if i buying into this.

As some would put it, i breed for the "shorter" line bearded dragons. I work with the Belgium line alot. A nice, healthy, dragon. That is shorter but stocky than most. In a 4 week period i can have my dragons at 6 inches and ready for retail. In a 8 week period the dragons have gone threw 3-4 sheds and are now somewhere around 10 inches. This is coming from a "smaller line" than most breed.
So the fact that it takes 8 weeks to get a baby bearded dragon to 6 inches, is NOT cutting it. I could feed dragons nothing but crickets and greens and it still would not take that long to get them to that size. IMO it sounds like she is stalling you.
So as it may have been alittle fast to post here, reading Terre's response doesnt sound "positive" to me. Maybe i missed it, but wouldn't she want to re-ensure that everything is okay? can she send you some pictures of the dragon she is holding for you? maybe that would makes this better on your end and her's? Hey if shes got it why cant she send some pictures?
Click to expand...

Tom,

His concern is to why is a dragon that hatched out in June rounding up to 6" in an 8wk. time frame. He stated that he requested for a refund because of the possibility of something health related problems with the "stalling"/waiting involved.

And why quote me when I'm only generally speaking? I was simply stating that it's common for babies to reach that size in the given time frame.

If Josh finds out she's stalling or she completely bamboozled him out of his money, I'm sure he'll let everyone on here know.

Josh, talk to Terry... Find out what's going on then post your findings.
 
I had asked for pictures out of curiosity and from some of the other feedback that was posted here. She states that the babies are in constant shed so she doesn't do pictures.

I am an understanding person. I do understand that things happen, but I really do feel as though I am getting the run around from her.
 
Here is what I sent to Terri today:

fromJosh Davis <[email protected]>
[email protected]

dateMon, Jul 19, 2010 at 12:44 PM
mailed-bygmail.com

hide details 12:44 PM (3 hours ago)

Terri,

I have been doing a bit of research and I am beginning to think that I am being taken advantage of. I have been a member of faunaclassifieds for a bit of time now and have put in extensive research. Every other breeder of dragons provides updates and pictures of the animal. Also if there is an issue with the dragons not being the correct weight and size by this time, there is something wrong with that batch of animals. Per your site, you do offer refunds. "Please note: No refunds are given on deposits for special order dragons or dragons held for International shipment before the dragon has shipped. Thank you". My order was not for a special order dragon or for international shipping. I am formally asking for a refund. Our original agreement was for the clutch that hatched on 6-7-10. You stated in the email that it would ship the end of June. It is quickly approaching the end of July.

I am asking that you please honor your guarantee for a refund. I wish to settle this amicably.


--
Thanks,

Josh Davis


Here is her reply:

Hi Josh,

Good to hear from you. This should clear up the questions you have.

First, we could not possibly ship the Citrus the end of June if the clutch hatched on 6/7. That would mean shipping 3 week old dragons. We ship at 10 grams or more and after 2 sheds. Usually, we start shipping a clutch at 4 weeks of age (weather permitting). That way, we know what the dragon is shaping up like and which are the best in the clutch. Perhaps you are thinking of the Pandora clutch which would have been ready to start shipping on 6/7.

There is also the issue of weather. We have had very few days where we can ship anyone's dragon in the past 3 weeks. This week again it is over 100 degrees. As I am sure you have heard on the news, this is the hottest summer on record. No one could have foreseen this when factoring in timeframes to ship. However, if you want us to ship your dragon in temps above safe, please let me know. As long as you assume full responsibility, we will ship your dragon.


Sound good?

Regards,

Terri
 
I am getting conflicting information from her. First it is the size of the dragons then it is the weather?

The weather I understand. I do not wish to have a dragon shipped in hot weather that would endanger the animal.

Even the size thing I can understand to a degree. Even in the email she sent above, she states that it is normal for a 4 week growth to reach proper size to sell. Why would this batch take 8 weeks?
 
The recent email states that she'll ship the dragon in these temps only if you agree to waive any guarantees? So... That must mean that they have your dragon that's up to standards and they're just waiting to ship for safer weather conditions?

Get her to take pictures for you regardless of whether your dragon is in shed or not.
 
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