Bad Guy Fire and Ice Dragons (Terri Sommella)

[JMartin1982]

Terri has no ceased all communication with me. She won't reply to emails and won't answer her phone. I am hoping that this situation did not take a trun for the worse.

i asked her in post i think it was 51 it was:

This is what terry said:
Why would we reward someone like that? We have decided to brave it out.

Then I asked:
So your not giving him his dragon or a refund now?

She never answered my question. If she had I haven't seen it. Now her not responding to you now somewhat proves me right.

Man i do hope this can be resolved. You have composed yourself very well thew this joshjtd. I to say the least would be right now and would have lost all composure at this point.

 

[mxracer4life]

Terri, I am a business man. I know it can be hard to give a refund when it is not proven you are in the wrong, and I am not saying anyone here specifically is. BUT, since you have stated that your terms of service were not clear enough for everyone to understand, I think you can let this one slide. Dragging this on like this is WAY more damaging to you than you may think. I disagree that it will give future customers a "loop" to jump through if they want to back out of a deal. Just admit that your TOS were not 100% clear, apologize and give the man a FULL refund, then make sure it is clear on the website. You have kept your TOS pretty open ended, to your benefit. Even if your TOS haven't complicated things up untill this point, they have now. Sure, he may have complicated things for you by posting on here, but dig down, way down, and do the right thing. Let this end on a good note. Think about this, if you ship that dragon, and it dies in transit to him or back to you, look at where this thread could end up.

 

[chamgirl99471]

OK... I read through this entire thread and am now cross eyed! Everyone has valid points but here is my opinion and may not mean much to the members here but I was trying to see this through the eyes of the buyer and seller.

First off.. If you go to a store and place an order for something they don't have in stock at the time and pay in full then change your mind they may refund you minus a percentage.. No problem there. If you pay for an OBJECT/SUPPLY Online and then change your mind but they insist on shipping it anyway and tell you to ship back.. No Problem! A Bearded Dragon is Not An Object!

This is a living creature and deserves the respect as such. Do NOT Ship the poor dragon and make Josh ship it back, That's just cruel. Josh has changed his mind... Refund him the money minus the $50 he offered in the beginning and call it even (think of it as a deposit as your TOS states)! I don't see why this is so hard for you Terri. The only reason that I could come up with is that you already spent his money but if you have so many satisfied customers then you should have some extra money and you definately should still have his money since he has yet to receive and be satisfied with the animal. Why do you want to hurt your reputation over something as simple as a click of the button on Paypal to refund Josh's money!?

Josh... As a buyer... take this into consideration and maybe next time just pay a deposit instead of the whole amount for something that you will have to wait on. Just my .02. You have been very professional stating your opinion and facts on here and I commend you for that and hopefully you've learned a Huge Lesson!

Good Luck to both of you! Hope you can come to some sort of agreement as Terri.. you are being quite unreasonable while Josh is trying to work this out with you to not stress an animal that is innocent in all this!

Thanks to all for reading

 

[joshjtd]

Catharine,

Even though this issue is not resolved, I have learned a great deal. As I stated before, I had respect for Terri as a breader. I looked up to her and had hoped that some day I could become a breeder such as her.

I have learned that selling eggs before they have hatched is a not a good business model. I don't know if peoples speculations on Terri's reasoning for not issuing the refund are true or not, but I have also learned that when I go to sell babies, I will keep the funds in paypal until I have seen that the customer is satisfied so that a refund can be given if needed. Also that a little communication will go a long way. Pictures and updates if there are unexpected delays will help put a customer at ease.

I think that the biggest thing I have learned though is not to fear the BOI. Not meaning this in a condesending manner, but if you remain calm, state facts, and work toward a resolution with the customer, the thread will be here forever but your willingness to resolve the situation will also be here forever.

As far as the buying thing goes, definitely a lesson learned.

 

[chamgirl99471]

Josh,
If Terri doesn't respond to you by the end of today then I would pursue the options you listed earlier in the thread. If she still wants to argue and dig her heals in, then it's up to them to come to some sort of agreement and I truly don't think the BBB will look kindly on this as you have nothing and she is basically blackmailing you and holding your money for ransom and this is not the way a business should be run! According to the other threads that were linked here she likes to turn her TOS around in HER Favor! It's not the way to win over customers and this thread is here to stay no matter what.

Terri... Resolution of this is quite simple and doesn't go against your TOS in any respect. You state that a Deposit is Non Refundable, therefore you pay Josh the $300 and call the extra $50 the Non Refundable Deposit... Situation Solved!!

Just my .02

 

[dragonluver83]

Paying customers....he never paid for an animal. He paid for an unhatched egg. He paid for a SHOT at an animal from a clutch that MIGHT hatch out on this EXPECTED date.

If that clutch that he's so adamant about DIED in the bator....would he have come here saying it's taking too long? He paid to wait....so he should STFU AND WAIT!.

So as you would say i am a "seller" and i find what she is doing and this above statement to be off. As long as the following info is correct

The deal was: he paid in full for a unhatched animal. (dumb on both parts, when terry sells an unhatched egg she is already taking responsibility to the animal and sale. if you dont like that then dont do buss. that way. you got the kids money right?). Josh was to receive a "top pick" of the "first clutch" (I think thats what your missing.) ITS A DEAL! The kid was suppose to get the top pick animal from the first clutch and DID NOT GET IT!

Not because the incubator crapped out. It's because she sold the whole first clutch! She SOLD his animal and is now stalling him onto another clutch...

You know what, Josh did wait. the whole first clutch was SOLD and where is his top pick from the first clutch? Some one else's cage and now terry has money from two people for one animal.

Thats what was important, right Terry?

If this was my deal i would be upset.

An im a "seller" as you would put it

 

[Omnomnami]

So as you would say i am a "seller" and i find what she is doing and this above statement to be off. As long as the following info is correct

The deal was: he paid in full for a unhatched animal. (dumb on both parts, when terry sells an unhatched egg she is already taking responsibility to the animal and sale. if you dont like that then dont do buss. that way. you got the kids money right?). Josh was to receive a "top pick" of the "first clutch" (I think thats what your missing.) ITS A DEAL! The kid was suppose to get the top pick animal from the first clutch and DID NOT GET IT!

Not because the incubator crapped out. It's because she sold the whole first clutch! She SOLD his animal and is now stalling him onto another clutch...

You know what, Josh did wait. the whole first clutch was SOLD and where is his top pick from the first clutch? Some one else's cage and now terry has money from two people for one animal.

Thats what was important, right Terry?

If this was my deal i would be upset.

An im a "seller" as you would put it

But one thing you got wrong was the quality of animal he was purchasing...he purchased a hold back quality which is considered "second quality". The top quality animals she sells are around $500, not $300.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree. Hold back or collectors quality, either way he doesn't want the animal, he wants his money.

 

[kmrkvicka]

all i can say is call Terri

I know it's too late now, but I have to disagree - Unfortunately in the world of business, especially in our field and chosen hobby, I only conduct my business, both buying and selling, by email. I will not conduct it by phone, unless to further confirm things that are already in writing. When an issue arises that may need to be brought to places like the BOI, or taken to the authorities, you can not bring a phonecall in, but you CAN bring copies of private message, text messages, and emails in as proof of correspondence

That is your choice. I totally disagree. Treating customers fairly IS a good business practice. If you would back down immediately as soon as a customer did to you what was done to us, God bless you. I guess I would never buy anything from you. We on the other hand, hate being treated unfairly and will not treat our customers this way.

What exactly has he done??? other than ask for what is rightly his?? his money!!! you breached the contract well before he asked for HIS money.

This is bogus conjecture. We have shipped dragons for 12 years. If josh repacks the dragon on the next good weather day (Mon - Wed), overnight, the dragon will be fine or we would not suggest it.

It is NOT bogus conjecture. Animals die in shipping all the time, even in perfect weather, without handler delays. We often forget that reptiles are masters at hiding illness and disease. How dare you pretend that your animals are above that "conjecture?"

 

[dragonluver83]

But one thing you got wrong was the quality of animal he was purchasing...he purchased a hold back quality which is considered "second quality". The top quality animals she sells are around $500, not $300.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree. Hold back or collectors quality, either way he doesn't want the animal, he wants his money.

Oh, okay.

i was close

I guess my thing is, "It's a deal" that's it. If you cannot hold up on your end then you should not set these terms with customers. If you set the guide lines, then why do you break them?

 

[spyder79]

Oh, okay.

i was close

I guess my thing is, "It's a deal" that's it. If you cannot hold up on your end then you should not set these terms with customers. If you set the guide lines, then why do you break them?

100% agreed.
Not to mention this seller's poorly written and vague TOS is laughable.
It is sad that this happened but there appears to be no forseeable outcome other than this seller shipping the dragon to the customer weather the customer wants it or not (how sad huh).

 

[Omnomnami]

Oh, okay.

i was close

I guess my thing is, "It's a deal" that's it. If you cannot hold up on your end then you should not set these terms with customers. If you set the guide lines, then why do you break them?

Haha np.

And exactly. When making your TOS you should go over it and maybe even ask opinions on it from possibly someone who isn't too biased. There were many holes in her TOS but that doesn't make it right for her to change them then say

"Ok, here. This is what I meant and I'm sticking to it."

That only makes her look bad. And honestly, even after she changed it, her TOS still looks bad! Anyone that would ship an animal just to have it shipped back THEN give a refund is horrible. Even if that said animal doesn't die. Think of what it would go through mentally on its own level of consciousness! I'm raising my BS flag to you, Terri. Make this right.



Now the only thing we can do is wait for her to reply to this thread or reply to Josh privately.

 

[Iraqvet]

Ok...I am gonna try to do that infraction free,but its gonna be hard...I would like to make it clear I expect no response from fire and ice dragons..I would like to start by saying WOW..I have never seen people who cared so little about animls they claim are worth so much to them...I can tell your in it for the money right there..You obviuosly dont care about them if you want one shipped back to back versus giving a refund that you will give anyways..Thats only to say if you actually hold up your part on acknowledging that the animal was healthy on its return..Which I doubt you would btw..I think the ASPCA should be warned about your careless treatmeant of your animals...You guys really are a piece of work..This isnt even a pride thing..Its cause you all are stubborn and not right in the head..I dont understand how you claim this dragon to be so great,yet you think no one else would want it besides the OP..Just give him his money and sell the thing again..Heck you will even make $50 out of it..I dont agree with it,but your not smart if you take bein stubborn over money..You admitted your TOS were unclear..So move on with getting them fixed and give this guy his money..Thats what he wants...There are so many people who have nothing,that it shocks me when people who do have somthing,still act like this..You guys are as bad as Ed Clark and Nicole Norton...And to deborah and konstantine,I am shocked you two would side with these people..And kanstatine,I cant understand why you tried to call the OP a whinner and such..That was really unneccesary..If anyone sides with these people,it shows they dont care much about animals either...

 

[Omnomnami]

Ok...I am gonna try to do that infraction free,but its gonna be hard...I would like to make it clear I expect no response from fire and ice dragons..I would like to start by saying WOW..I have never seen people who cared so little about animls they claim are worth so much to them...I can tell your in it for the money right there..You obviuosly dont care about them if you want one shipped back to back versus giving a refund that you will give anyways..Thats only to say if you actually hold up your part on acknowledging that the animal was healthy on its return..Which I doubt you would btw..I think the ASPCA should be warned about your careless treatmeant of your animals...You guys really are a piece of work..This isnt even a pride thing..Its cause you all are stubborn and not right in the head..I dont understand how you claim this dragon to be so great,yet you think no one else would want it besides the OP..Just give him his money and sell the thing again..Heck you will even make $50 out of it..I dont agree with it,but your not smart if you take bein stubborn over money..You admitted your TOS were unclear..So move on with getting them fixed and give this guy his money..Thats what he wants...There are so many people who have nothing,that it shocks me when people who do have somthing,still act like this..You guys are as bad as Ed Clark and Nicole Norton...And to deborah and konstantine,I am shocked you two would side with these people..And kanstatine,I cant understand why you tried to call the OP a whinner and such..That was really unneccesary..If anyone sides with these people,it shows they dont care much about animals either...

I was thinking the same thing. They have "Ed and Nicole" written all over their whole entire business. What a shame.

 

[PAVLOVK1025]

The deal was: he paid in full for a unhatched animal. (dumb on both parts, when terry sells an unhatched egg she is already taking responsibility to the animal and sale. if you dont like that then dont do buss. that way. you got the kids money right?). Josh was to receive a "top pick" of the "first clutch" (I think thats what your missing.) ITS A DEAL! The kid was suppose to get the top pick animal from the first clutch and DID NOT GET IT!

Not because the incubator crapped out. It's because she sold the whole first clutch! She SOLD his animal and is now stalling him onto another clutch...

You know what, Josh did wait. the whole first clutch was SOLD and where is his top pick from the first clutch? Some one else's cage and now terry has money from two people for one animal.

Speculation.
Show me where it says that it has been sold.
Thats the whole problem with all of you. The fantasies and conspiracy theories run so deep that the kind folks of fauna, in the midst of their crusades cant separate the facts from fiction.

Then they all jump on the same opinion bandwagon, feeling better by the post for joining the mob and going after somebody.

And for the record, a refund isnt warranted, but credit with Fire and Ice might be. That dude changes his mind too much.

There are so many people who have nothing,that it shocks me when people who do have somthing,still act like this..You guys are as bad as Ed Clark and Nicole Norton...And to deborah and konstantine,I am shocked you two would side with these people..And kanstatine,I cant understand why you tried to call the OP a whinner and such..That was really unneccesary..If anyone sides with these people,it shows they dont care much about animals either...

Hey jarhead. My name, as outlined within the profile, and made available for all to see, is KONSTANTIN.

I, by the service of people like myself, and you, and Brian have allowed people in this great nation to speak our minds, and take an objective stance when we feel like it. I understand that you may not have a leadership mentality, and must follow the opinions of those before you, for the unbeaten path is scary. But I...IN MY OWN mother loving opinion feel that:

1- this thread was unwarranted
2- by posting this thread, the OP was whining about something that never happened [ he didnt get taken for money ]


"If anyone sides with these people, it shows that they dont care about their animals either."

Really now? Is that the way it works? NOT thinking like YOU [ thank GOD ] means I dont care about my animals. What a way to connect ideas.
I applaud your ability to lump everyone into one group.
By your "logic," Im what, keeping about 25 bps in a 100 gallon tank and tossing a rat in there every month or two?

If they dont think like us, theyre wrong!
You get a star champ, well done.

Dismissed son.

I was thinking the same thing. They have "Ed and Nicole" written all over their whole entire business. What a shame.

I wouldnt agree. I think their business has "Fire and Ice" written all over them, and from what I gather they do just fine when theyre not dealing with [ x ]

X= people that cant make up their mind






PostScript: In regards to a loose TOS....you gotta work legal jargon over a couple times before you get it right. We're not all lawyers like the rest of you BOI professionals.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Speculation.
Show me where it says that it has been sold.
Thats the whole problem with all of you. The fantasies and conspiracy theories run so deep that the kind folks of fauna, in the midst of their crusades cant separate the facts from fiction.

Then they all jump on the same opinion bandwagon, feeling better by the post for joining the mob and going after somebody.

And for the record, a refund isnt warranted, but credit with Fire and Ice might be. That dude changes his mind too much.



Hey jarhead. My name, as outlined within the profile, and made available for all to see, is KONSTANTIN.

I, by the service of people like myself, and you, and Brian have allowed people in this great nation to speak our minds, and take an objective stance when we feel like it. I understand that you may not have a leadership mentality, and must follow the opinions of those before you, for the unbeaten path is scary. But I...IN MY OWN mother loving opinion feel that:

1- this thread was unwarranted
2- by posting this thread, the OP was whining about something that never happened [ he didnt get taken for money ]


"If anyone sides with these people, it shows that they dont care about their animals either."

Really now? Is that the way it works? NOT thinking like YOU [ thank GOD ] means I dont care about my animals. What a way to connect ideas.
I applaud your ability to lump everyone into one group.
By your "logic," Im what, keeping about 25 bps in a 100 gallon tank and tossing a rat in there every month or two?

If they dont think like us, theyre wrong!
You get a star champ, well done.

Dismissed son.



I wouldnt agree. I think their business has "Fire and Ice" written all over them, and from what I gather they do just fine when theyre not dealing with [ x ]

X= people that cant make up their mind






PostScript: In regards to a loose TOS....you gotta work legal jargon over a couple times before you get it right. We're not all lawyers like the rest of you BOI professionals.

Well said!

 

[Iraqvet]

Ive retyped my reply 4 times and finally arrived at this to sum it up.

<---Team Fire and Ice

SOOOO glad that the BOI witch hunters came out and did their thang.

Drop strong opinion!
Witty rhetoric! WE NEED MORE WITTY RHETORIC!
Some unprofessional professionals' thoughts and opinions.
Burn seller at the stake!

Nobody got ripped off. The dude wanted a dragon enough to pay and wait...then he should wait. WTF is the difference. Its not like he's being told "VE AHR KEEPING ZEE MUHNY AND JOR DRAKON!" They just said give it a second, relax. He has changed his mind from 2 dragons to one, from red to citrus. Maybe he changed his mind over all.

Funny thing...if there was a bad buyer thread, saying this dude paid for something and backed out...there'd be a bunch of folks up his cloaca about his terrible practices.

Ive got the bandwagon pulled up...HOP IN!

Paying customers....he never paid for an animal. He paid for an unhatched egg. He paid for a SHOT at an animal from a clutch that MIGHT hatch out on this EXPECTED date.

If that clutch that he's so adamant about DIED in the bator....would he have come here saying it's taking too long? He paid to wait....so he should STFU AND WAIT!

The BOI is not for people to come and gripe and complain....I understand if he wasn't getting in touch with the seller but he is in full communication with her. This thread is just another baseless whiny brat customer thread, for your amusement and entertainment, all because it took too long.

Why do sellers get mad? Because we have to turn easy going transactions to deal with garbage like this.

These post were pretty un warranted...I am sure you lost some customers based on your attitude..

 

[PAVLOVK1025]

These post were pretty un warranted...I am sure you lost some customers based on your attitude..

They were very warranted when you decided to attack my or anyone else's level of care for their animals based on their stance on a matter.

I like my customers not to be sheeple.
If I lose a sale or two or even 15 because I spoke my mind, Im good with that.

This is now officially off track. Any more qualms, beefs, opinions...I have a nice PM box with room for about 180 more messages.



"You have enemies? Good. That means you have stood up for something, sometime in your life."

 

[Iraqvet]

Speculation.
Show me where it says that it has been sold.
Thats the whole problem with all of you. The fantasies and conspiracy theories run so deep that the kind folks of fauna, in the midst of their crusades cant separate the facts from fiction.

Then they all jump on the same opinion bandwagon, feeling better by the post for joining the mob and going after somebody.

And for the record, a refund isnt warranted, but credit with Fire and Ice might be. That dude changes his mind too much.



Hey jarhead. My name, as outlined within the profile, and made available for all to see, is KONSTANTIN.

I, by the service of people like myself, and you, and Brian have allowed people in this great nation to speak our minds, and take an objective stance when we feel like it. I understand that you may not have a leadership mentality, and must follow the opinions of those before you, for the unbeaten path is scary. But I...IN MY OWN mother loving opinion feel that:

1- this thread was unwarranted
2- by posting this thread, the OP was whining about something that never happened [ he didnt get taken for money ]


"If anyone sides with these people, it shows that they dont care about their animals either."

Really now? Is that the way it works? NOT thinking like YOU [ thank GOD ] means I dont care about my animals. What a way to connect ideas.
I applaud your ability to lump everyone into one group.
By your "logic," Im what, keeping about 25 bps in a 100 gallon tank and tossing a rat in there every month or two?

If they dont think like us, theyre wrong!
You get a star champ, well done.

Dismissed son.



I wouldnt agree. I think their business has "Fire and Ice" written all over them, and from what I gather they do just fine when theyre not dealing with [ x ]

X= people that cant make up their mind






PostScript: In regards to a loose TOS....you gotta work legal jargon over a couple times before you get it right. We're not all lawyers like the rest of you BOI professionals.

Just so you know,I would never let anyone get away with calling me a jarhead in person..I would never stoop that low to be one..I also dont know what you are talking about with it being sold or not..Its not like a dragon is like toilet paper where you buy it and use it once..Someone didnt want what they were told they were getting..So they fire and ice re sell it..Dosnt take a rocket scientist to firgure that out..And as far as caring for animals,no they dont..Its obvious shipping carriers can have issues..Why risk it getting lost for a couple days and dying or somthing..You like these people so you must not care either..Same for Deborah...Shipping an animal you know is gonne get shipped right back for a refund versus just giving one is just plain stupid...Its funny you and deborah are the only ones siding with them..So I guess you are calling everyone else stupid as well??..Oh and "dissmised son"..What, did you get that off an old episode of fresh prince of bel air or somthing lol??..Its sad to think you actually joined the military,as I couldnt imagine your leadership capabilities..Then again that wouldnt matter as I am sure you have never deployed..As far as "legal jargain" goes, its not hard....You just do the right thing and make your TOS fair,unlike these people..Deborah,yourself pavarusskie,and fire and ice are now equal with Ed's and Nicole's name on my do not buy from list..I have no urge to deal with people who do not care for animals and are in it for the money..I highly doubt with your attitudes you folks and convince people otherwise...Have fun with your lost businness...

 

[Iraqvet]

They were very warranted when you decided to attack my or anyone else's level of care for their animals based on their stance on a matter.

I like my customers not to be sheeple.
If I lose a sale or two or even 15 because I spoke my mind, Im good with that.

This is now officially off track. Any more qualms, beefs, opinions...I have a nice PM box with room for about 180 more messages.



"You have enemies? Good. That means you have stood up for something, sometime in your life."

You obviously didnt read what I quoted..They were your posts about the OP,and didnt have anything to do with me attacking you...Which I didnt..

 

[PAVLOVK1025]

You obviously didnt read what I quoted..They were your posts about the OP,and didnt have anything to do with me attacking you...Which I didnt..

Its on topic, so Ill respond. Re-read that post you quoted. I didnt attack the buyer.

I stick to my guns on this fact :

BUYER paid for a chance at a hatchling. Means he has to WAIT for a hatchling.

BUYER grew impatient. BUYER didnt even care until he realized he had been waiting for a whopping 3 weeks. BUYER contacted SELLER to find out that:
1) Dragon is not at optimum weight
2) Too hot to ship

It is currently July, for all the space cadets out there. End of July and then August are the hottest times of the year. If its too hot, its too hot.

BUYER suddenly, upon coming to the BOI and getting hyped up by the hype men of the industry wants pics. Dragon is in shed...wait a second and youll get pics.

All he had to do was what he originally paid to do...wait. He couldnt wait. He wanted 2, then one, then red then orange, then he wanted a refund, then he wanted a dragon, then he wanted a refund.

In this thread...he is complaining about the WAIT

Lets review, shall we?

Terri and I exchanged emails about what to expect and when the dragon would ship. Terri stated that with a hatch date around 6-7-10, the dragons should be ready to go around the end of June. The end of June rolls around and I havent heard from Terri. I sent her an email asking when I should expect the dragon and get the following reply:

[email protected]
toJosh Davis <[email protected]>

dateWed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:29 PM
subjectRe: order

hide details Jul 7 (12 days ago)

Hi Josh,

You are. This clutch is not big enough to ship at 4 weeks though. The clutch hatched over a period of 10 days as they were in 2 separate incubators so that had something to do with it. Anyway, as soon as your dragon is ready, we will ship asap. I need the bin space!!!

By the way, it was 107 here yesterday. Cross your fingers for a cooling wave.

Regards,

Terri

I was concerned after this email but understand things happen. She followed up by telling me that it would be another 4 weeks before the dragons would be the correct weight and size for shipping. Now if you have an animal that is only 5-6" in eight weeks, something is not right.

He was told it was too hot and the dragon was too small. Wait out the heat wave, and wait for your dragon.

Somewhere after all that he decided that a dragon not up to size in 4 weeks is a sick dragon. Hrm. Interesting. I mean, after all, its a given fact that all dragons at 4 weeks are of size and ready to go out. There's no chance that an animal has its own growth rate, independent from the other 20 million animals like it out there. Maybe the other dragons are all 37 feet long already, this one however is a slow grower. WAIT. Do what he paid for.

Im out. 1 and done. Much <3 to the BOI, I be outz.