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Bad Guy Kimberly Lucas Gorgeousgecko.com con artist!!

This thread is starting to have a Ed Clark taste to it... maybe its just me?
Seller does not like the color of the animal.. offer a full refund. A lot of this hobby is about color!
Its pretty simple the animal does not look like it did in the pics and a full refund is NOT being offered... if the seller was unknown this would be considered a scam IMO. DON'T you consider this scamming someone?
 
This has been an absolutely horrific read for someone looking to get into the business of breeding and selling animals. I think it's quite obvious that the two animals pictured are different.

Even if the seller issues a refund now, her reputation is torn to shreds. I sure as heck would never purchase an animal from her after seeing the way she has handled this. She should have just accepted the refund/return, which would still have been a slight loss for the buyer (price of return shipping) and no real loss for the seller. The buyer attempted to keep it between the two of them in an effort to avoid damage to the seller's reputation...All this subsequent damage is the seller's fault, imho. She's the one who became defensive and accusatory in the initial emails and it is her own fault that the issue has come to light in the public eye.
 
I would just like to formally post, that i know i should have not put the words "con artirst" in my thread title here. Not only is it against forum policy, but just wrong. I am happy to admit to my mistakes and this was one i did make. I'd like to apologize to Kim for that, it wasn't fair of me. People should read my post and decide what she is for themselves.
 
JinxtheBP said:
This has been an absolutely horrific read for someone looking to get into the business of breeding and selling animals. I think it's quite obvious that the two animals pictured are different.

Even if the seller issues a refund now, her reputation is torn to shreds. I sure as heck would never purchase an animal from her after seeing the way she has handled this. She should have just accepted the refund/return, which would still have been a slight loss for the buyer (price of return shipping) and no real loss for the seller. The buyer attempted to keep it between the two of them in an effort to avoid damage to the seller's reputation...All this subsequent damage is the seller's fault, imho. She's the one who became defensive and accusatory in the initial emails and it is her own fault that the issue has come to light in the public eye.
Click to expand...

:iagree:

I want to say that Kim, your reputation is tarnished now because of your posts in this thread. Not because of the title or the OP's post. Your responses are the worst part of this thread. The OP was in no way a jerk to you. The only reason he brought this to the BOI is because you weren't willing to work with him (and no, a $150 credit is not working with him :NoNo:.) He didn't come here first before giving you a chance. You have no one but yourself to thank for this post.

I hope you get some kind of satisfactory refund Brian. It's a shame that this wasn't resolved immediately. It seems pretty simple to me, if this would have been me in the seller's position you would've had your money after your first email! Of course though, I'd never find myself selling an olive gecko as a "moonglow" either :rolleyes:
 
Abby said:
:iagree:

I hope you get some kind of satisfactory refund Brian. It's a shame that this wasn't resolved immediately. It seems pretty simple to me, if this would have been me in the seller's position you would've had your money after your first email! Of course though, I'd never find myself selling an olive gecko as a "moonglow" either :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Thank you :) maybe i'll shopping around you soon ;)
 
aleria said:
And apparently you have absolutely no idea what exif data is exactly. Not only does it detail the pictures statistics from the camera itself but also any software that was used on it. Usually a telltale sign that we all look for in the exif data is a section that specifies the use of photoshop or other similar programs. And as you can see in the data, not one single entry of it states that editing software was used.

I agree that the gecko is nothing like the original pictures, but those original pictures are just that, original and unaltered.
Click to expand...


Just in general, I'm responding to this post but I want to make sure that all knows that I'm not accusing the seller of doing such. I haven't read the entire thread and haven't formed an opinion.

While EXIF Data is a great tool and it can be used in a variety of ways, it's not full proof. Yes if you know how, you can manipulate and change it.

Most don't even know it exists let alone how to change it. But, it is not completely reliable when it shows nothing has been done. On the other hand, it really is a reliable tool when it shows something has been altered because nobody in their right mind would alter it to incriminate themselves.
 
This thread is starting to have a Ed Clark taste to it... maybe its just me?
Click to expand...
Nope, not just you, Brian. It's ironic you mentioned that, because I immediately thought of those few notorious Fauna sellers when I read the following off Kimberly's site.

http://www.gorgeousgecko.com/terms.html
"Posting details of the transaction, problem, or claim, on any public forum or web site is a direct violation of this policy and will result in the immediate and unconditional void of our guarantee."

I don't know about anyone else, but that right there is a deal-killer. I can't imagine dealing with a vendor who would threaten to void a guarantee if I publicaly make a valid complaint over a bad transaction the vendor has not rectified. Nope, not gonna happen! A true professional with nothing to hide wouldn't even consider making such an outrageous, ludicrous policy part of their TOS.

It's rather funny how Kimberly stated, "I think the hang up is in the term "moonglow". Yet, she advertised it as such and claimed that during the short time in her possession he was never any darker.
That gecko is clearly not a Moonglow. A lovely olive/tan, yes ... worth $450.00? No way.

We've all heard that monologue before: "It was sold to me as XXX, so I just sold it as XXX". Someone in her postion, with her outstanding collection and experience obviously should know that ain't a valid excuse.

As for the EXIF data, the seller uses the free Picasa 3.0 image viewing software, so she definitely could have "tweaked" the photos a bit (brightness/saturation, etc). They do look a bit washed out/over-exposed to me.

At any rate, the seller is fortunate the OP is willing to accept only $150.00 in refund. I do believe he is due a cash refund, not a credit.
 
Magic Merlin said:
Hey Brian can you take some pictures of the gecko in the exact same poses as in Kim's pictures......I want to verify that it is the same gecko.
Click to expand...

I'd still like to see this, even though it sounds like the seller isn't denying that the olive colored gecko was hers.
 
LauraB said:
http://www.gorgeousgecko.com/terms.html
"Posting details of the transaction, problem, or claim, on any public forum or web site is a direct violation of this policy and will result in the immediate and unconditional void of our guarantee."

.
Click to expand...
Whoa ,did not see that , yes that type of TOS is way over the line and i would never deal with such a person . SO either you suck it up and take what they give you and like it ,or complain and they can claim you broke the TOS and get nothing .So in theory a vendor can send you whatever they please and the buyer can never complain publicly otherwise they lose??
 
"Our reputation is very important to us and we have built and maintained our good name by providing great animals and products as well as the very best in customer service."
Click to expand...
So you say this first, then this,
"Posting details of the transaction, problem, or claim, on any public forum or web site is a direct violation of this policy and will result in the immediate and unconditional void of our guarantee."
Click to expand...
I am not sure you understand the BOI. If you were in the right here you would post evidence of that fact and look awesome for all to see. That would encourage people to buy from you in the future. And even being in the wrong it all comes down to how you handle the problem. If handled well you still give everyone a reason to come buy from you in the future because you have given the reassurance that you can deal with a problem with fairness and grace and tact.

That policy is basically a cop out that prevents unhappy customers from voicing their problem with you when they feel like they are being slighted or ripped off and that is a giant load of crap imo.
 
Brian... quick question for you... Was that part of the TOS when you purchased this gecko? Just wondering if she quickly added it to her TOS because of this post?
 
Things that make you go Hmmmm :) That would definately be a deal-killer to me and I am in the market for some cresties... sorry Kim.. don't think I'll buy from you although I was browsing through your selection before this occurence and would have still considered had you not responded the way you have on this thread! Good luck with future sales and Brian.. I hope you can get this resolved one way or another but thanks for bringing it here.
 
And I have the official update date of that page being Wed, 21st July 2010, 12:23:29 GMT. I can't nail down exactly what was updated, but it was that section.
 
Talkenlate04 said:
And I have the official update date of that page being Wed, 21st July 2010, 12:23:29 GMT. I can't nail down exactly what was updated, but it was that section.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:


This situation sucks for me cause I am local to Kim with 100+ cresties and their is no possibility I would ever purchase from her.......I will accept the shipping risk from one of the many other breeders with outstanding geckos at half the price.
 
Here's what I got when I wanted to see the last update to her Terms page:
 

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So kim has made me what she thinks is a good offer to resolve this. After i purchased the "moonglow", but before he was shipped, i inquired about a superdalmation on her website. gecko #1375. That gecko was not priced on the website, and she told me in an email its price was $400. Now she is offering to send me this gecko as a peace offering.

I have a few problems with this. For one i really think she needs to cough up the cash i spent on a very plain olive gecko. The superdalmation she herself said she produced. Well as we all know getting two geckos to mate costs basically nothing, so though she would be sending me a nice gecko, she really doesn't lose much, and therefore it feels like a cop out to me.

Also, i'm very wary of receiving any more geckos from her, for obvious reasons.

Also before she sent me this offer, i sent her the following message here on Fauna.

So as i posted in the thread, i would now like to send directly to you. I should never have used the phrase con artist in my title line. That was wrong of me, and I am sorry. I have tried to edit it and cannot figure out how, and have messaged a mod. to figure out how i can change that title. Now if you will be willing to work with me on a refund, i will have no problem making a post retracting my "con artist" claims, and explaining that you did eventually work things out with me, and that i am happy. I would have no problem saying that although my experience with you was bad, you have had a good reputation for years, and that our experience was most like an exception to the rule.

As you can see she is completely unwilling to work with me on a refund at all, even after i offered her a sincere apology, and even offered to do what i could to help repair the reputation she has trashed for herself during this forum.

I would not be happy with her "peace offering", but i can see she cares little about making the situation right, or trying to save her reputation, and this is all im going to get out of her.

the "peace offering" email she sent me is below


Brian,
I have attached recently taken photos of gecko 1375, the Super Dalmatian that I have produced.
It is 8-10 grams unsexed and is missing the tip of it's tail.
I am offering you this gecko as a peace offering.
It is well beyond in value what you have asked for. I am only doing this because I truly do value my customers and realize you are very upset about your transaction with me. However, I do not take kindly to false accusations or threats. In the future, think before you accuse people falsely. I know it is common in today's society to assume you are getting screwed but that is not always the case.

Take it or leave it, it is a more than fair offer and the last one I will make.

Pics of the gecko she is willing to send me are below

securedownload


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So what so all you think? Is this at all a fair offer? Is this decent compensation? I feel i have no choice but to accept, as she has made it perfectly clear she is completely unwilling to work with me on a refund of any sort, regardless of if its the right thing to do, or how it is damaging her business.
 
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