Bad Guy BHB reptiles "het" didn't prove out, won't fix it

[Amelanistic Orca]

Angel... It's Brian; not Brain... You're freakin me out man!! lol.. And; I agree with what you are saying my man... Brian simply needs to man up; talk to Dave on the phone; and kapoof?? Happy camping!! Offer help at this point in the game; something...

 

[TheVipersHouse]

I fully understand what your getting at Tom and i do accept the apology , but not 1 time have i ever taken sides on this matter just pointed out true facts that were posted or talked about .

but the issue to is "Yes he should have bred it to a visual" cause thats the only way to prove or disprove and now the fact of light that was shown about the female hets being questioned that he has ,

in order for him to realistacally claim this snake is not a Het is :
1) he needs to breed the male to a visual female

and
2) he needs to breed a visual to his females (compatibility being an issue as well)

like i stated before , without doing those breeding he cannot and should not claim anything not being what it is or what it was sold as . and whether this is his purpose or not with this thread unfortunately that's what he Labeled the TOPIC TITLE .

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Right on Big Shawn.. I'm with ya... For some reason; I feel Brian should do this fifth breeding... Why do I feel this way I sit and wonder?? Or; how about Brian let him/Cliff know what the heck line it is?? I wonder what the paperwork really states that D. Bellis has?? Just ghost; or a line of?? David?? Check?? Check?? Ears on?? Something is askew for sure; and breeding it to four different visuals will put this thread up yearly... It needs to be dissolved and only Brian can answer/help any of this.. The best part is; the snake hasn't been thrown on a backburner and is treated very well.. lol...

 

[snakeman101172]

I wonder what the paperwork really states that D. Bellis has?? Just ghost; or a line of?? David?? Check?? Check?? Ears on?? Something is askew for sure;


Does Bellis have paperwork ? I thought paperwork was never created in this transaction.

 

[TheVipersHouse]

I wonder what the paperwork really states that D. Bellis has?? Just ghost; or a line of?? David?? Check?? Check?? Ears on?? Something is askew for sure;


Does Bellis have paperwork ? I thought paperwork was never created in this transaction.

From my understanding of what i read there was paperwork just not PHOTO ID paperwork .


Someone please correct me if im wrong

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

This is correct my friend's...

 

[dekaybrown]

How about this, I have never done business with Brian..

What you are asking of the man is lunacy.

If I sold you a car and you lost a race with it, should I refund the price of the car and fork over the winning purse as well?? Oh and lets not forget that NASCAR sponsorship that you SHOULD have gotten had you won the race.. is that owed also?? how about that movie deal ten years down the road that the winner of the race got, should you be compensated for missing that boat too??

I think not.

Just my two cents, do with it as you wish....

 

[Casey Hulse]

Considering the fact that within minutes of posting this the OP received a response from Brian after not getting any responses for weeks,

I still do not see where David B. states that he was contacted by Brian after this thread was started?
It is not in post #10

 

[Bobby Douglass]

I still do not see where David B. states that he was contacted by Brian after this thread was started?
It is not in post #10

You are correct it is actually post #8. Sorry.

I got no response from Brian from the past four emails I've sent him since October 27. I emailed him today about this thread and I got a response in 13 minutes. Pretty amazing coincidence right?



And my response.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

It's very early on Casey... Just read David's posts... He got the email within 13 minutes of sending him a link to the post... Unless it was edited out or something, but I read it early on??

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I still do not see where David B. states that he was contacted by Brian after this thread was started?
It is not in post #10

Post#8

I emailed him today about this thread and I got a response in 13 minutes. Pretty amazing coincidence right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian@BHB
So this is how you think we'll fix it. I was happy to work with you on things. I'm sorry you feel that you'll make some difference by trying to slander my name. If that's the way you think you will make out the best I wish the best for you. Brian

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Wow... That speaks volumes to me.. Thank you for throwing that up Dennis... I read that fast early on and only put a small notation in mind of that statement.. Not cool... Sounds more like Goliath trying to pound Davey into the sand to me...

 

[Kaa22]

How about this, I have never done business with Brian..

What you are asking of the man is lunacy.

If I sold you a car and you lost a race with it, should I refund the price of the car and fork over the winning purse as well?? Oh and lets not forget that NASCAR sponsorship that you SHOULD have gotten had you won the race.. is that owed also?? how about that movie deal ten years down the road that the winner of the race got, should you be compensated for missing that boat too??

I think not.

Just my two cents, do with it as you wish....

There's a flaw in your logic though. True hets should be a guarantee. A race is a shot at luck.

If you like cars, here's an analogy. If you buy a car, and the motor fails/locks up/etc, the warranty should cover it, no? I understand that it's only covered for a limited time, due to wear and tear vs faulty parts.... genetics just don't wear away. We'll, genetics failed here, and a guarantee/breeders ethics should fall into place.

Things happened, and it could have been a number of reasons why the animal never proved. Sperm retention to produce the original spider het hypo in question, etc. Whatever it may be, that's not the question. What it was, was bringing to light that compensation was promised, and never delivered.

 

[TheVipersHouse]

There's a flaw in your logic though. True hets should be a guarantee. A race is a shot at luck.

If you like cars, here's an analogy. If you buy a car, and the motor fails/locks up/etc, the warranty should cover it, no? I understand that it's only covered for a limited time, due to wear and tear vs faulty parts.... genetics just don't wear away. We'll, genetics failed here, and a guarantee/breeders ethics should fall into place.

Things happened, and it could have been a number of reasons why the animal never proved. Sperm retention to produce the original spider het hypo in question, etc. Whatever it may be, that's not the question. What it was, was bringing to light that compensation was promised, and never delivered.

well heres the flaw if your logic (BOLD and UNDERLINED above) :
1)his females he used were Virgins , not proven so his hets could have been the failure
2)he didnt breed it to a visual (which he should have done to prove out a het )
3)he didnt know if his line was compatible with the lines he had

 

[Casey Hulse]

Originally Posted by Brian@BHBSo this is how you think we'll fix it. I was happy to work with you on things. I'm sorry you feel that you'll make some difference by trying to slander my name. If that's the way you think you will make out the best I wish the best for you. Brian

How did I miss that?
It seems clear that Brian is not going to come on this thread to comment, so unless David and Brian can come together after this (which is doubtful) I guess we can just keep debating ethics etc...

 

[Kaa22]

well heres the flaw if your logic (BOLD and UNDERLINED above) :
1)his females he used were Virgins , not proven so his hets could have been the failure
2)he didnt breed it to a visual (which he should have done to prove out a het )
3)he didnt know if his line was compatible with the lines he had

And I'll point out the flaws with yours as well...

1) Doubtful on the het's. Could every one of his hets been fake/false het's misconstrued through sperm retention/bad odds/etc? Really?...
2)Although breeding it to a visual could help, it doesn't boost odds dramatically. He could have had bad odds, but that bad? I doubt it. Especially if Brian was willing to compensate him for what was going on. Brian must have understood there was a problem and agree'd early on to fix it.
3) Although not all lines are compatible, most hypomelanistic lines on the market are. If the numerously quoted het females were mentioned alongside the male Spider 'het'... and this were a big possibility, why would Brian offer to compensate? Hmm.

And by the way, you weren't pointing out flaws in my logic. You were re-iterating what you've stated before on this thread, and your feelings towards the topic. My logic was on breeder guarantee's and ethics coming to actually compensating David....

 

[Fedawg]

Shawn its obvious your completely biased. I agree with Andrew , everything you are saying is a shot in the dark Shawn.

 

[dekaybrown]

There's a flaw in your logic though. True hets should be a guarantee. A race is a shot at luck.

If you like cars, here's an analogy. If you buy a car, and the motor fails/locks up/etc, the warranty should cover it, no? I understand that it's only covered for a limited time, due to wear and tear vs faulty parts.... genetics just don't wear away. We'll, genetics failed here, and a guarantee/breeders ethics should fall into place.

Things happened, and it could have been a number of reasons why the animal never proved. Sperm retention to produce the original spider het hypo in question, etc. Whatever it may be, that's not the question. What it was, was bringing to light that compensation was promised, and never delivered.

I understand very clearly what you are saying, However breeding has NO guarantees either..

Not that I like cars or anything, but using the OP logic, had my car locked up under warranty while I was making an important delivery, and I missed the deadline, lost the contract and went bankrupt from it, the auto manufacturers obligation stops at either repairing or replacing the car, Subsequent losses arising from the failure of said car are my own tough luck.


The fact that compensation was offered at all to me is an act of kindness.

I certainly would never slander my source for my hets just because I didn't get the desired results.

One thing I am fairly certain of, If you truly need to prove out hets, then buy siblings and line breed.

 

[Kaa22]

I understand very clearly what you are saying, However breeding has NO guarantees either..

Not that I like cars or anything, but using the OP logic, had my car locked up under warranty while I was making an important delivery, and I missed the deadline, lost the contract and went bankrupt from it, the auto manufacturers obligation stops at either repairing or replacing the car, Subsequent losses arising from the failure of said car are my own tough luck.


The fact that compensation was offered at all to me is an act of kindness.

I certainly would never slander my source for my hets just because I didn't get the desired results.

One thing I am fairly certain of, If you truly need to prove out hets, then buy siblings and line breed.

One question.

Who are either you, or I? Who are we to say what is fair, or what should be compensated? That is between the involved parties, and nothing more. It will never be more, no matter how much anyone tries to push themselves in the matter.

The purpose of this thread is exactly why it was started. Brian promised to make things right, and compensate David for what was stated. Brian failed to keep in touch with David, or make things right with what he had promised. Months go by, and the thread was started after a lack of communication, to get this problem resolved. To bring it to the public on lack of customer service. How bad would it really hurt Brian to compensate David? Honestly?

What it would show is not an act of kindness. That complete and utter bunk. What it will show is strong breeder ethics, and a good standing guarantee of the animals he sells.

 

[Kaa22]

I understand very clearly what you are saying, However breeding has NO guarantees either..

I don't know how I missed that part, but here we go...

Breeding does have guarantee's towards true hets. Possible het animals? No. That is why they are possible hets. This animal was supposedly a true het. Genetics are guaranteed when you are basing it on true genetics.

The only part of breeding that has no guarantee, is either proving a mutation genetic or not, the animal actually reproducing, or the animal surviving the breeding cycle with no ill effects, such as egg binding or hemipenal impactions. Those are not guaranteed and can, or cannot, happen.

What makes, or breaks, a breeder is how they stand behind their animals and their customer service. A good breeder stands behind the genetics and quality of their animals. A great breeder makes things right if something goes awry, such as a het not proving; and stands by their word.