Info Em Wright of Crimson Ice Reptiles... you decide

[Southern Wolf]

Personally I would have offered to refund the difference in value between an anery stripe and an anery mot with a stripe pattern. Stripes tend to be a bit more valuable than mots. BUT if this is what Em wanted she could also have requested that and gone from there. I don't think you did anything wrong, just saying what I might have offered.

She can make more money selling the babies wholesale than she paid for the snake. That female is a proven breeder. She got a good deal. Sell the babies at retail or close to and she's making out like a bandit.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I agree the situation looks to be very frustrating - I just personally have a very high threshold for public posting. ... this is also partly why I too am getting out of selling snakes, as doing this can be quite stressful when a buyer comes back at you with some crazy notions and you have to politely deal with that while wondering how to manage a return or what @-@

Personally I would have offered to refund the difference in value between an anery stripe and an anery mot with a stripe pattern. Stripes tend to be a bit more valuable than mots. BUT if this is what Em wanted she could also have requested that and gone from there. I don't think you did anything wrong, just saying what I might have offered.

IMO, the bolded statement is a set up for a rip-off.

She received a picture, she could have researched BEFORE putting her money down. Putting your money down AFTER you have seen the picture and THEN asking opinions of a forum (newbies tend to play the game, what is this?) and taking their word as gospel isn't exactly a reason to give anyone a partial refund.

* I did this once I posted a picture of my Het Red Ax Girl and Male. The male was easily identified, but the female not so. I got lots of opinions that she was "Just a Normal." (there's more to the story, but to make a long story short) I went back to the seller and asked him if it was just a Normal if perhaps there wasn't a mix up? He assured me it was exactly what he said it was and gave me pictures of the girl (I previously did not have a picture). All I have to do is prove her out.

What I did NOT do is go implying that he didn't know his own bloodlines or may have been mistaken himself. I certainly knew he knew more about the morph than I did at that time. I also did not ask for a refund since the seller had a sterling reputation, and I am patient. They will not leave here unproven.

 

[ophidile]

Not saying it's what he SHOULD have done - especially considering she first requested a return and a refund and he agreed to that. Just saying it's what I would have done.
The flip side is that as a buyer, if I get a real good deal on a snake and find out something was less than I'd hoped for, I'll let it slide so long as it isn't a "dealbreaker" (in which case I would take the return).

 

[smilts]

You cant ask for something, then complain when its offered while refusing it.

 

[scaledverts]

You cant ask for something, then complain when its offered while refusing it.

 

[Em Wright]

You cant ask for something, then complain when its offered while refusing it.

I wasn't complaining. You know, this wouldn't even have been an issue if Rich Beasley hadn't posted in my thread. The issue was gone, done, over, as far as I was concerned until this random guy I don't know started in on me.

And I love how people are putting words in my mouth. I stated I "was not". Was in the past tense... At the time of my post in that thread I wasn't happy, but at that point I hadn't talked to Kevin. I was fine after I spoke to Kevin, I was satisfied and had made up my mind to just keep the snakes. And in my post to Mr. Beasely I even stated:

But from what he's told me that's what he got her as, too so I know he wasn't ripping me off and I never once stated that I thought he was.

I would have been more clear in my post if I had known either of us were on trial and I didn't post emails because that was not an appropriate place to do so. I was trying to keep it short and concise, if I'd known it was an issue, I would have clarified immediately. Which, I have since, if anyone would bother to look.

But enough of that.

Kevin, you asked me what I wanted. I don't want anything, after I'd decided to decline the refund I no longer wanted anything from you. The issue was over for me and I'm sorry that it wasn't over for you, too. So I apologize for posting publicly about you, ophidile is correct in what she said about that, so I am sorry I put you in that position. It was wrong of me.

On the point of me wanting to wait on bringing them back... I just wanted to make sure the MBK female was okay. I was under the impression at that point that I would get a refund when I brought them in or else I would have specified that. I had no desire to rip you off. I know a single regurge isn't the end of the world, but I wanted to give her a couple small meals to make sure she was okay before sending her back. I had her well being on my mind and that's all. Period. I have no interest in ripping anyone off. Ever.

 

[Em Wright]

She can make more money selling the babies wholesale than she paid for the snake. That female is a proven breeder. She got a good deal. Sell the babies at retail or close to and she's making out like a bandit.

I would have declined that as well anyway.

I do plan on breeding trials to prove one way or another her genetics. That is why I decided to keep her. At first I thought it was a loss, but now it gives my original project a bit of mystery and suspense. That makes me happy since most of my other projects for this year I more or less know the outcome.

 

[ophidile]

I would have declined that as well anyway.

I do plan on breeding trials to prove one way or another her genetics. That is why I decided to keep her. At first I thought it was a loss, but now it gives my original project a bit of mystery and suspense. That makes me happy since most of my other projects for this year I more or less know the outcome.

Glad you are OK with the deal - I know I personally love the stripe/mot genetics, so even if she is homozygous for motley, if you breed her to a stripe I think the babies will be fun for breeders!

 

[Em Wright]

Glad you are OK with the deal - I know I personally love the stripe/mot genetics, so even if she is homozygous for motley, if you breed her to a stripe I think the babies will be fun for breeders!

I agree, I'm looking forward to it now.

 

[zorro]

I think way to much time was put into this thread, all I can tell you is my experience with EM. She has been upfront and professional about everything she has bought from me and in fact I trust her so much that I have sent snakes before being paid. She has always paid as to our agreements and am sending her a breeding loan trio between us.
I have done business with her many times in the past and will continue to in the future.
John

 

[deborahbroadus]

I think way to much time was put into this thread, all I can tell you is my experience with EM. She has been upfront and professional about everything she has bought from me and in fact I trust her so much that I have sent snakes before being paid. She has always paid as to our agreements and am sending her a breeding loan trio between us.
I have done business with her many times in the past and will continue to in the future.
John

Em is not a newbie to Fauna, she knows the damage that can be done by instigating on a business's reputation. Even if Kevin is no longer in the business his reputation is excellent, and given how many have left the business and screwed so many on their way out, it's understandable that he would NOT want to be cast in that light by a disgrunteled customer that apparently refused an offered resolution, inplied that she was more caring of the snakes than the breeder and knew more about them than the person that produced them.

I am glad you can vouch for her, her behavior here hasn't encouraged some of us to vouch for her (just based on her emails and responses), and the fact that you came in and tried to tell Fauna members how much time to spend on a subject isn't starting you off on the right foot either.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

wow, I was thinking about getting back into advertising to sell some retail.....
not anymore~ this is why I sell everything I can to the pet store~ customers are the pet store owners problem not mine.
Good Luck Kevin~

 

[Southern Wolf]

Kevin, you asked me what I wanted. I don't want anything, after I'd decided to decline the refund I no longer wanted anything from you. The issue was over for me and I'm sorry that it wasn't over for you, too. So I apologize for posting publicly about you, ophidile is correct in what she said about that, so I am sorry I put you in that position. It was wrong of me.

On the point of me wanting to wait on bringing them back... I just wanted to make sure the MBK female was okay. I was under the impression at that point that I would get a refund when I brought them in or else I would have specified that. I had no desire to rip you off. I know a single regurge isn't the end of the world, but I wanted to give her a couple small meals to make sure she was okay before sending her back. I had her well being on my mind and that's all. Period. I have no interest in ripping anyone off. Ever.

Em you will most likely agree with me on this. I know my snakes. I know my snakes well enough that I was able to tell you over the phone that anery was not head shy and she would let you mess with her to inspect her closer.

I also know my MBKs and if one regurged it was from the combination of transport and whatever handling occured. But in your email to me you came off like you knew my snakes better than I did... talking about she shouldn't be bred. For the last four years I have put my heart and soul into my reptiles and my business. It was not an easy decision for me to make to close up shop. There is no way I would do anything that would have put my animals in jeopardy. I am currently sitting on 5 snakes and 2 lizards until the weather gets more conducive to shipping because of this.

If you would have brought them back the next week like I requested.. you could have had your refund. Those 3 animals would have stayed at my place until I could guarantee them again and they would have been delivered to my buyer since he had bought me out.

Like I have said before... I dont mean any harm with this statement and Im not accusing you of anything.... but as a breeder I cant just let my animals reside somewhere else for extened periods of time and then take them back when they get ready to deliver them. You never know what conditions they were kept in or how they were taken care of.

Once again... I am not accusing you of anything. That is a blanket statement and the reason most folks only offer live arrival guarantee. I was actually willing to go way above my TOS and my gutt feeling by saying bring her back in 7 days. I was putting faith in your husbandy... and quite frankly that is something that I dont do easy. I know how easy it is to mess up. We have all been there at some point in time.

In the first email you asked for a refund in exchange for returning the animals. You weren't happy so I agreed. In every email you weren't happy about her genetics or possible genetics. I said bring them back. Then I get ... I wasn't trying to set up a date just yet... I wanted to see if you'd work with me. What was I suppose to think?

 

[Southern Wolf]

John... this has nothing to do with her making payment. She paid promptly... and I dont have a problem with that at all.

 

[Lucille]

and the fact that you came in and tried to tell Fauna members how much time to spend on a subject isn't starting you off on the right foot either.

Plus one on that. I'm always irritated by folks who seem like they want to put the hush on something.

There are a few well known vendors that you would not want to consult with after a sale, because they are downright abusive.

Kevin is definitely not one of those. He is all about good customer service. Had the OP simply sent an email to Kevin with her concerns without airing them publicly, he would have taken care of her.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Plus one on that. I'm always irritated by folks who seem like they want to put the hush on something.

There are a few well known vendors that you would not want to consult with after a sale, because they are downright abusive.

Kevin is definitely not one of those. He is all about good customer service. Had the OP simply sent an email to Kevin with her concerns without airing them publicly, he would have taken care of her.

Actually Lucille.... I tried to take care of her even after her airing it publically.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Plus one on that. I'm always irritated by folks who seem like they want to put the hush on something.

There are a few well known vendors that you would not want to consult with after a sale, because they are downright abusive.

Kevin is definitely not one of those. He is all about good customer service. Had the OP simply sent an email to Kevin with her concerns without airing them publicly, he would have taken care of her.

Actually Lucille.... I tried to take care of her even after her airing it publically.

And to add... NOWHERE in my TOS do I have (or have ever had) a clause that says you cant air your grievence due to fear of voiding the guarantee's offered. I despise the kind of people that put that in. That tells me right then and there they have something to hide.

I am not that way.

Yes I was ticked at her post blasting me on CS.... but I still did what was right and I offered her a refund for the return of the snakes. My customer was not happy... and I prided myself on quality snakes and quality customer service. I wanted to make my customer happy.... even though I was no longer in business.

I think that is why I took her jabs at me the way I did. I may not be in business.. .but Im not willing to throw away everything that I worked to achieve.

 

[Em Wright]

I hate that my post on CS.com has been viewed as bashing. It was venting, yes. I was angry, yes. If it's such a big deal I'm sure I can have a mod remove it to save Kevin's reputation.

I am not out to hurt Kevin. I am satisfied with the results of the deal. Why must this continue? Kevin if you had been so upset about me speaking publicly you could have simply said in an email that you wanted it removed and I would have PMed a mod to have it done. Simple as that. I am a reasonable person.

The part that bothers me... everyone is so worried about Kevin's reputation, even though he's out of the business. Yet no one ever gave my reputation a second thought... some even went so far as to throw out horrible accusations as to my intentions without even knowing me or hearing my side of the story. How much will this thread hurt me in the future? Does anyone even care or are you only concerned with Kevin? You know I've worked hard to build a good reputation, to do what's right, to keep my head in a bad situation, and to take good care of my animals... with this single thread, with one single man who felt I slighted him, all of my hard work and effort could be washed down the drain.

But I refuse to let that happen. I will sit here for an eternity, explaining myself over and over again if I must. I will do anything to prove I had no ill intentions toward Kevin and that I wish him the best in his future endeavors whatever they may be.

You know someone mentioned that I have been around the BOI a bit and I should know the consequences or whatever. That entered my mind... that's why I sent emails to Kevin, that's why I tried to remain professional in my emails. None of it mattered. I'm still being raked over the coals and for what? Absolutely nothing. I made a public post about a business transaction. I make lots of public posts about business transactions, usually in a photo thread sharing an animal I just got from someone. The difference is that I'm usually praising the seller, not venting my dissatisfaction. I wasn't trying to ruin Kevin, I was just venting. Maybe you don't see a difference, but I do.

Everyone makes mistakes, everyone misinterprets what is written down. We are all human. I'm sure even Kevin has some skeletons in his closet where he didn't always do the best thing in a given situation. Where is the BOI thread about that? Where is the BOI thread for every time you misstep or misspeak? You can sit on your high horses and act like I'm the lowest form of scum, but the truth is you've made mistakes, too.

 

[Lucille]

How much will this thread hurt me in the future?

Somehow, the fact that you vented in public without first having contacted the seller, and now worrying about what that action will do to you strikes me as part and parcel of the problem. It's all about you.

If people see this thread, they may worry that a transaction with you, whether buying or selling might be paraded in public while they are unaware.

You say it was 'venting' but if it did not bother you when you were doing it to him, it shouldn't bother you that we, his friends, may be venting here. What goes around comes around.

 

[Em Wright]

Right...

Difference.

I was venting in a place that people do NOT check before doing business with an individual. I posted in a photo gallery thread that was dead until HIS friend resurrected it and the situation.

Kevin made a thread with not only my name and my business name, but did so in a place that many people check to see if doing business with someone is a good idea or not.

Conclusion.

Venting in an obscure thread didn't hurt Kevin. Vindictively posting a BOI thread about me HAS put me in a very negative light.

Furthermore. I have apologized to Kevin and offered to have a mod remove the post or the whole thread should he desire it done. What more do you want?