Bad Guy Dereks-Dragons (Derek Baisley)

[joshjtd]

Can you point out the mediocre folks

It is not my intent to "call out" the mediocre folks. I am sure they know who they are. I am sure that currently I am on that list myself so I am not above them.

 

[DJB-VARANUS]

Please do. And thanks scaled verts. I can think of one breeder whom I know both me and alot of other people have had problems with but I think its safe to say a name because as far as I'm concerned she has stopped breeding and that was ajevolvedreptiles. Worst experiance I have ever had so far in this hobby. Also josh, I think its pretty clear that she wasn't really misrepresented. So that being said let's try and solve this. I believe we are probably going to end up in the same spot again though because of the shipping fact. So you can keep her since she's what she was listed as or we can do what started this whole thread in the first place. Which i think is reasonable since xhe was not misrepresented. ? I think paypal said we have until the 17th to settle the dispute but i prefer we just solve and end this thing

 

[DJB-VARANUS]

Sorry, I again did not see tge last post before posting mine. It's a complete pain having to work off my phone

 

[Bill T]

It is not my intent to "call out" the mediocre folks. I am sure they know who they are. I am sure that currently I am on that list myself so I am not above them.

I don’t think anyone considers themselves mediocre if you wish to call yourself mediocre that’s on you but don’t insult someone else’s work.

Sorry for getting off topic.

 

[DJB-VARANUS]

Okay well josh just please let me know what's going down so we can settle this I think 7 pages of opinions is enough to show she was not misrepresented..

 

[texasnewbie]

Why does it say "ATTEMPTED" on the top right side of the box? Was delivery attempted but you weren't in, hence picking her up at the post office.

I know you said they called you at 1am (?) and you went in the morning, but i'm wondering why it's stamped "attempted"

 

[Sushi Dragons]

I used to have great issue with Bloodbank, Corky Jordan, David Freeman, and many of the other quality breeders. I did not understand why they would charge so much to folks. After many months I did LOTS of research. Sure I could get animals that costs less than they offered. Were they quality? Absolutely not. You get what you pay for. Genetics, coloring and health.

I wouldn't generalize... many "quality breeders" buy animals from the "mediocre folks." Also, spending more money does not guarantee a quality animal. That's why there are lemon laws.

Derek, I am asking that you please take a look at the mediocre folks in our hobby. While I am appreciative of the folks in this community, not many of them are the best of the best. I think you want what I want. That is to produce top quality animals for people to enjoy. This task is accomplished by first off investing in quality stock. This can not be compromised. All of the folks I listed above, I have made purchases from. I was convinced that they were scam artist in the beginning. After talking to those folks, the reason they are there is because they know their craft well. They don't breed to make a $. They breed because they love the hobby. They produce the best hands down.

Actually, pretty much every breeder intends to make money- or at the very least break even. It costs the exact same amount of money to raise a $20 hatchling as it does to raise a $400 hatchling to 6" so there is definitely profit when you are the "best of the best."

Regardless, the dragon in question does not look starved, she looks exhausted and dehydrated. Give her a week or two and see if she doesn't turn around for you. The issue with the weight/length sounds like the seller took a wild guess and was a bit off. As far as the appearance, can anyone examine the seller's pictures to determine if they were enhanced in any way? I think that is the most substantial difference from the ad to the reality of the dragon's arrival. I personally would have been equally disappointed to see a dragon looking so rough after spending that much money.

 

[DJB-VARANUS]

As far as im concerned the pics arenot enhanced. I didnt take the pics but she did look like that prior to shedding. Also I was pretty much righton with ... weight .. atually we have alrady discussed this skim nkt going to just keep repeating myself here.. I was wondering the same about the attempted stamp. Josh I'm going to text u in the moring so we can give another attempt at solving this I know its late and I'm sure both of us are equally tired of this so ill talk to you tommorroww and we will see how things go. We will keep you all updated Im going to go to bed now. Thanks for the Help and opinjons guys, now let's just hope this gets solved

 

[Sushi Dragons]

I hope you will be able to come to a reasonable conclusion. It sounds like you're both willing and able to work things out.

 

[DJB-VARANUS]

So what has this cone down to?. I'm talking to josh right now via text message, and I'm still offering to refund his 385 but not the shipping costs. She's clearly not misrepresented, so I don't see why I should pay the shipping costs because josh does not like what he Payed for, knkwing what he was getting..

 

[deborahbroadus]

So what has this cone down to?. I'm talking to josh right now via text message, and I'm still offering to refund his 385 but not the shipping costs. She's clearly not misrepresented, so I don't see why I should pay the shipping costs because josh does not like what he Payed for, knkwing what he was getting..

I would chalk him up to a "bad customer experience.'

To me, this clearly seems like a case of "Buyer's Remorse." Right down to his first implication that you had gyped him by not sending the same animal he paid for.

 

[scaledverts]

I would chalk him up to a "bad customer experience.'

To me, this clearly seems like a case of "Buyer's Remorse." Right down to his first implication that you had gyped him by not sending the same animal he paid for.

100%. He made it sound as if the animal was on death's doorstep when it arrived. It clearly was not as skinny as he led us all to believe. I also don't quite get how he figured he could ask for a more than 75% refund on it!

 

[joshjtd]

Wow...If this is now being called "buyers remorse", customer service has really taken a dive. So it is now an accepted practice among sellers to give false weights and sizes? It is also ok to post dated pictures of animals to mislead folks? As long as you guess at it you can be way off and you are still in the right?

Here is where I am coming from. I paid for an adult leather back that was the coloring I was looking for. What I got was a sub adult that is nowhere near ready to breed or should not have been bred.

 

[DJB-VARANUS]

That's what i had said. And both my parents said that its obviously buyers remorse. They're exact words. Now I had told him that obviously she was not misrepresented and so on and so forth but he is just saying that there are posts in this thread that are on my side and some that are on his ....and he's ceased to reply to me now

 

[DJB-VARANUS]

Also he has the lizard but I don't have the money ... He issued a paypal claim so right now the money is neither mine nor his.... And you know that if paypal gives him the money there's a slim chance that I will ever see that lizard again..

 

[Lucille]

Derek, I am asking that you please take a look at the mediocre folks in our hobby. While I am appreciative of the folks in this community, not many of them are the best of the best.

Certainly, I consider myself a part of THIS community. However, since I'm no breeder of dragons I guess Josh would classify me as mediocre, so I'll be bowing out now

Honestly, the above quote, has to be one of the most illgotten and least likely to garner support, phrase of the year....

 

[DJB-VARANUS]

Pictures are only 4weeks old bro..size is correct on my side and her current weight was never stated. We have gone through these same 3 aspects over anf over again and all evidence seems to support me here..

 

[akonitony]

Ok, I've read pretty much everything up to this point, and now here is my $0.02...
First, I think Derek is much more responsible and upstanding than I was at 15, so cudos to you my boy, don't do drugs, and 'Stay in School'!
Second, I have to agree the length issue is really moot at this point since his ad gave a range, which implies it is not exact. Even if it was slightly under the low point of the range, it was still not given as an exact measurement, so I would think this alone would not be reason to demand a refund. If he did not state the weight as 275 g at such-in-such time, and nothing can be done or shown the animal in question NEVER weighed 275 g, then that is a moot point as well (can you tell I like the word 'moot' yet?). Afterall, he did not guarantee weight or length, but just stated it, and in a very casual manner.
Thirdly, whenever one buys something that needs to be shipped, one takes the chance of being disappointed with what one receives in the package. Also, stress can takes it's toll on a small animal rather quickly, so I believe Derek's shock at the video was genuine, the animal survived and is now thriving according to the OP, and I would not be inclined to refund shipping either if I were Mr. D, unless it was stated in the TOS. Oh, and if one would like to see where this is practiced in business pretty much universally, try egay, or eday, or whatever that place is... they very rarely refund shipping in the event of a return, and almost always state so in the returns section of each ad. For future reference however, I'd suggest Derek have a little section in wee print at the bottom of each and every ad of his stating in the event of a return, the customer is responsible for all shipping charges. Usually, this will not stop a sale, and in the event of something like this particular event, he could have easily pointed to this small but mighty disclosure, and avoided a BOI thread that does not look favorable to some. Personally, I would be happy the animal is still alive, looks decent now, and I did not have another veterinary bill to frame for all to see.
Fourthly, I think both parties were refreshingly cordial all the way through this thread, which is an accomplishment in-and-of-itself. Bravo for treating each other as human beings and not something else. I know papa Rich would be proud of you guys for following his wishes, as he as outlined in a recent sticky, in every step of this ordeal. Now everyone shake hands, exchange underwear, or do whatever is customary in your neck of the woods to show you approve of the other person still breathing air in this world.
NEXT!

 

[deborahbroadus]

Wow...If this is now being called "buyers remorse", customer service has really taken a dive. So it is now an accepted practice among sellers to give false weights and sizes? It is also ok to post dated pictures of animals to mislead folks? As long as you guess at it you can be way off and you are still in the right?

Here is where I am coming from. I paid for an adult leather back that was the coloring I was looking for. What I got was a sub adult that is nowhere near ready to breed or should not have been bred.

I read your posts (exaggerations); I saw the pictures, and read what you were asking for in return for being "dissatisfied." I also read the seller's attempts to satisfy you.

Regardless, or your opinion on the breeding size/age of the dragon, you saw the pictures. You knew she had been successfully bred, and imo, she doesn't look too much the worse for wear from the breeding even right out of the box after two days.

Seems you got the color you wanted and a breedable dragon, no matter how much you now want to back out of the deal. But lying and implying that it wasn't the SAME animal you paid for is a no-no It's the SAME animal and the numbers that the seller gave you were stated to be "approximations."

 

[deborahbroadus]

Also he has the lizard but I don't have the money ... He issued a paypal claim so right now the money is neither mine nor his.... And you know that if paypal gives him the money there's a slim chance that I will ever see that lizard again..

Send Paypal a copy of the shipping information and receipt.