Bad Guy I got ripped off! Lonnie Jacobs or fauna user lancehead1980

[marku1999]

I just wanted to let everyone how I got screwed by Lonnie.

I bought the animals listed in this ad:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253385

I received the animals this morning. I immediately noticed a severe back issue on the female. I contacted the seller asking to return all 4 animals and refund my money. I gave the option of a partial refund as well.

Here are the photos of the female:
http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p83/mcp_mark/sick ornate uro/

Seller has refused to return my money - here is the last response:


from Lonnie Jacobs [email protected]
to Mark Urban <[email protected]>
date Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 9:50 PM
subject Re: payment recieved
mailed-by insightbb.com
Important mainly because of the people in the conversation.

hide details 9:50 PM (24 minutes ago)


Mark,



I'm only going to tell you this one more time! PLEASE STOP THREATENING TO BLAST ME ON FAUNA! AS OF THIS MORNING I HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO WITH REPTILES! I AM NOW INTO A NEW BREEDING PROJECT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY KIND OF REPTILE! I HAVE E-MAILED THE ADMIN AT FAUNA AND REQUESTED THEY CANCEL MY FAUNA ACCOUNT! SO TO BE HONEST I COULDN'T CARE ANY LESS ABOUT YOU POSTING BAD STUFF ABOUT ME! Now, I looked at the pictures. I see nothing wrong with her. As she gets older and puts on more weight, she will fill out. What you are referring to is actually her spine. I sent your pics to some friends and they agree with me.

She is in my honest opinion a healthy animal.


I have plenty of other emails where he tries to downplay my reptile knowledge and that I am not qualified to have an opinion on her health.

 

[marku1999]

Please note the last line above are my words and were nto part of his email to me:

I have plenty of other emails where he tries to downplay my reptile knowledge and that I am not qualified to have an opinion on her health.

 

[wyldwurm]

Can you post the rest of the email please? Maybe I am missing something, but I fail to see anything wrong.

 

[wyldwurm]

*emailS -

 

[marku1999]

I can post multiple emails, he has refused to refund my money regardless of her condition. I have posted photos of the female. She has obvious issues with her back (I did the best I could to capture that in the photos provided at the link above).

 

[marku1999]

from [Available] Mark Urban [email protected]
to Lonnie Jacobs <[email protected]>
date Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:45 AM
subject Re: payment recieved
mailed-by gmail.com

hide details 11:45 AM (10 hours ago)

Lonnie,

The uros arrived today, but I am terribly disappointed. The female ornate has a terrible spine problem, I am not sure if it's calcification or if it's spinal abnormality (those huge lumps in her back are not normal). Either way she is not healthy. You can refund my money and send me a shipping label, this is not what I wanted and I will not accept it. If a refund is not immediately received I will submit a dispute with paypal and also post this to the board of inquiry on fauna.

I apologize for the tone of the email, but her condition is very obvious - it should have been disclosed to me at some point within all the emails we had back and forth.

Please handle this promptly. I have some serious issues going on in the family here and don't have time to deal with a bunch of BS - vet trips and fighting over money. Do the right thing and refund it.
I really don't want any of them. I bought the package for the ornates - with the female being in such poor condition it makes the value of the purchase almost worthless.

If you really don't want them back (which I can understand seeing her condition) I would accept a refund of $300. An adult pair of malis sold on fauna (the ad is still up) for $140 plus shipping (that is $200 total). Seeing as how that is not why I bought the group - it still does not make me real happy - I would prefer to be completely refunded and not have to deal with this at all.

I only had a moment to observe them (I have to leave to go to the hospital - my son is in intensive care) but I have concerns of metabolic bone disease with the others as well (the male mali was not moving right at all - I didn't really have time to observe the females closely).

Mark

 

[marku1999]

from Lonnie Jacobs [email protected]
to Mark Urban <[email protected]>
date Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 6:57 PM
subject Re: payment recieved
mailed-by insightbb.com
Important mainly because of your interaction with messages in the conversation.

hide details 6:57 PM (3 hours ago)


Mark,



I'm sorry to hear that you're not happy with the Uros. The reason I didn't disclose to you any info about them being unhealthy is because nothing is wrong with any of them. They are all completely healthy. I would however like to make a few points.



1) Did it ever occur to you that those 4 Uros had been IN A BOX FOR 20 HOURS AND THEY WERE TIRED, COLD, HUNGRY, AND COMPLETELY STRESSED OUT?



2) I'm quite certain that you probably looked up lizard diseases on wikipedia or caught brief disscussions about them on some forums. Have you ever actually seen a reptile with MBD and seen the affects of it? I'm guessing no.



3) The male Mali was not moving right? Again he was IN A BOX FOR 20 HOURS AND IS TIRED, COLD, HUNGRY, AND COMPLETELY STRESSED OUT!

4) If you were only able too observe them for just a minute, how did you come up with your professional medical opinion that they are not healthy?



5) Why would you agree to keep and re-sell the Mali's if you think they are not healthy? That kind of shows what kind of person you are. Who would sell animals they think for a fact are sick to someone else?



6) I bred Boa's and Ball Pythons for over 7 years and my record and reputation in the reptile community are unblemished. Therefore threatening to "OUT" me on fauna isn't exactly something I'm worried about. I know way more people in this business than you'll ever know. And I can do the same on the BOI to you.



7) I sent you about a dozen pictures that are all time and date stamped. I even sent you the close-ups in direct sunlight that you asked me for. All you did was rave about how good looking the female ornate was and now all of a sudden she's not good looking. She has a terrible spine problem? Again this is where the whole medical professional thing comes into play. I had no idea you were a licensed vet.



8) Through the 40 or so emails that you and I have sent back and fourth (yes I have every email I've sent to you and every e-mail you sent to me, along with all the pictures that were sent) you never mentioned anything about have problems at home. While you son was laying in intensive care, why were you home waiting for some lizards to come in the mail?



9) And most importantly, why would you agree to keep 4 unhealthy animals and accept only a partial refund? Sounds kind of fishy to me.



When reptiles get potentially lethal diseases they stop eating, lose weight rapidly, and die. All 4 animals I sent you are putting on weight and eat like pigs. As a matter of fact both ornates will readily eat right out of your hand.



Look, I'm not giving you a refund based only on buyer's remorse. If you didn't have the money or time to take care of them thats not my problem. If you take them to a vet that specializes in reptiles and he gives you legit paperwork stating they are all in poor health and dying I'll give you a full refund. Other than that all sales are final and if you feel you want to file a claim with pay-pal then you do what you think is best for you.



Lonnie

 

[marku1999]

from [Available] Mark Urban [email protected]
to Lonnie Jacobs <[email protected]>
date Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:14 PM
subject Re: payment recieved
mailed-by gmail.com

hide details 7:14 PM (3 hours ago)

I specifically stated I don't want any of them - period. I never said they were all sick, I said I did not have time to sit and observe or form a significant opinion on any of them except the female ornate (just the most valuable animal in the shipment). I said that the male had suspicious movements - which could well be stress. However I did it feel important to mention.

It is NOT buyers remorse - period. I want healthy animals. This female has large hard lumps on her spine. I will take her to a vet - and I am guessing you still wont refund a dime - because that is the type of person you are. I will be posting this as well as photos on fauna as well as disputing with paypal.

My opinion of you has drastically fallen, but I am sure you don't care.

Thanks for ripping me off!

 

[marku1999]

from Lonnie Jacobs [email protected]
to Mark Urban <[email protected]>
date Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:51 PM
subject Re: payment recieved
mailed-by insightbb.com
Important mainly because of the people in the conversation.

hide details 7:51 PM (2 hours ago)


Like I said, you can smear me on fauna. I don't do reptiles any more so thats not exactly going to ruin me. Its actusally just going to be a waste of your time but have at it.

Yes, you did specifically tell me you didn't want any of them. 1 paragraph later you make it a point to tell me you'll keep them all for a $300.00 refund and you'll just sell the Mali's.



I can honestly tell you that I sent 30 minutes everyday with those Uros and I never noticed and huge lumps on her back. You coldn't see the lumps in the close-ups that I took directly in the sunlight and you think everyone else is going to see them in the pics your going to post on fauna?



You said "the male mali was not moving right at all"! You'll mention that but you didn't think it was important to also say "but that just might be stress"?



I have all the feeding charts on these guys since I recieved them. If you keep them for 2 weeks or however long and keep them in a poorly set up enclosure and don't feed them, ofcourse the vet is going to say they are not healthy. That is exactly the reasone 99% of breeders and dealers say all sales are final.



Again, you do what you think you need to do. The fact of the matter is, I sold you completely healthy anuimals.



And by the way, the male ornate is the most valuable of the 4. Nobody sells smoking adult males. But, I do see females for sale quite often and they are usualy $100 to $200 cheaper than the males.

 

[lancehead1980]

here i'll post the rest of the emails

Wow, she looks even nicer than the male (ornate). I am guessing that is due to age, she is a year older correct?




On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Lonnie Jacobs <[email protected]> wrote:


the first 2 pics are the feamle ornate. the third pic is the female mali. the female mali is a little dark due to being in full shed.


this one is from this morning:

Lonnie,

The uros arrived today, but I am terribly disappointed. The female ornate has a terrible spine problem, I am not sure if it's calcification or if it's spinal abnormality (those huge lumps in her back are not normal). Either way she is not healthy. You can refund my money and send me a shipping label, this is not what I wanted and I will not accept it. If a refund is not immediately received I will submit a dispute with paypal and also post this to the board of inquiry on fauna.

I apologize for the tone of the email, but her condition is very obvious - it should have been disclosed to me at some point within all the emails we had back and forth.

Please handle this promptly. I have some serious issues going on in the family here and don't have time to deal with a bunch of BS - vet trips and fighting over money. Do the right thing and refund it.
I really don't want any of them. I bought the package for the ornates - with the female being in such poor condition it makes the value of the purchase almost worthless.

If you really don't want them back (which I can understand seeing her condition) I would accept a refund of $300. An adult pair of malis sold on fauna (the ad is still up) for $140 plus shipping (that is $200 total). Seeing as how that is not why I bought the group - it still does not make me real happy - I would prefer to be completely refunded and not have to deal with this at all.

I only had a moment to observe them (I have to leave to go to the hospital - my son is in intensive care) but I have concerns of metabolic bone disease with the others as well (the male mali was not moving right at all - I didn't really have time to observe the females closely).

Mark

this was my response:

Mark,



I'm sorry to hear that you're not happy with the Uros. The reason I didn't disclose to you any info about them being unhealthy is because nothing is wrong with any of them. They are all completely healthy. I would however like to make a few points.



1) Did it ever occur to you that those 4 Uros had been IN A BOX FOR 20 HOURS AND THEY WERE TIRED, COLD, HUNGRY, AND COMPLETELY STRESSED OUT?



2) I'm quite certain that you probably looked up lizard diseases on wikipedia or caught brief disscussions about them on some forums. Have you ever actually seen a reptile with MBD and seen the affects of it? I'm guessing no.



3) The male Mali was not moving right? Again he was IN A BOX FOR 20 HOURS AND IS TIRED, COLD, HUNGRY, AND COMPLETELY STRESSED OUT!


4) If you were only able too observe them for just a minute, how did you come up with your professional medical opinion that they are not healthy?



5) Why would you agree to keep and re-sell the Mali's if you think they are not healthy? That kind of shows what kind of person you are. Who would sell animals they think for a fact are sick to someone else?



6) I bred Boa's and Ball Pythons for over 7 years and my record and reputation in the reptile community are unblemished. Therefore threatening to "OUT" me on fauna isn't exactly something I'm worried about. I know way more people in this business than you'll ever know. And I can do the same on the BOI to you.



7) I sent you about a dozen pictures that are all time and date stamped. I even sent you the close-ups in direct sunlight that you asked me for. All you did was rave about how good looking the female ornate was and now all of a sudden she's not good looking. She has a terrible spine problem? Again this is where the whole medical professional thing comes into play. I had no idea you were a licensed vet.



8) Through the 40 or so emails that you and I have sent back and fourth (yes I have every email I've sent to you and every e-mail you sent to me, along with all the pictures that were sent) you never mentioned anything about have problems at home. While you son was laying in intensive care, why were you home waiting for some lizards to come in the mail?



9) And most importantly, why would you agree to keep 4 unhealthy animals and accept only a partial refund? Sounds kind of fishy to me.



When reptiles get potentially lethal diseases they stop eating, lose weight rapidly, and die. All 4 animals I sent you are putting on weight and eat like pigs. As a matter of fact both ornates will readily eat right out of your hand.



Look, I'm not giving you a refund based only on buyer's remorse. If you didn't have the money or time to take care of them thats not my problem. If you take them to a vet that specializes in reptiles and he gives you legit paperwork stating they are all in poor health and dying I'll give you a full refund. Other than that all sales are final and if you feel you want to file a claim with pay-pal then you do what you think is best for you.



Lonnie

 

[marku1999]

from [Available] Mark Urban [email protected]
to Lonnie Jacobs <[email protected]>
date Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:00 PM
subject Re: payment recieved
mailed-by gmail.com

hide details 8:00 PM (2 hours ago)

After re reading your email I am even more pissed off!
I never made a professional medical diagnosis. I said I had concerns. Please learn to read before you criticize me.
I never said anything about reselling any animals (again, please learn to read). I simply referenced an ad to establish the low value of the other animals. I asked for a refund and you decided to screw me. Your record is no longer un-blemished. I will post photos and will take them to a vet when I can. I requested this now so they could promptly be returned to you - which you rapidly declined.

I NEVER said I didn't have time to care for my animals. I stated I don't have time for bs of dealing with vet trips (for animals that were supposed to be healthy) and fighting over money.

I just received your other email, and I would have to disagree and say that a 2 year old healthy female (that you mentioned being a male mimic) that is almost ready to breed would be worth more than a yearling male. I did say they looked nice in the photos, but it is hard to detect every possible defect - and nearly impossible to make a medical diagnosis (which you already explained to me that I can't do) when the animal is not in hand. The photos were to help determine size and color. Their overall condition looked good in the photos - again I couldn't feel the lumps in her back from the photo!

I don't want any of them like I said. I don't want to resell. I want healthy animals that don't need to be taken to the vets and rehabbed. I would have bought farmed animals if that is what I wanted. I will be home later and get photos of her.

Mark

 

[marku1999]

from [Available] Mark Urban [email protected]
to Lonnie Jacobs <[email protected]>
date Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 9:16 PM
subject Re: payment recieved
mailed-by gmail.com

hide details 9:16 PM (1 hour ago)

Lonnie,

Here are the photos. http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p83/mcp_mark/sick ornate uro/

I know I am NOT A VET, but these photos surely show enough evidence to indicate that this uro is not healthy.
If I don't hear back from you VERY quickly the post will be put up on fauna.

Mark
- Show quoted text -

 

[marku1999]

Lonnie,

Please post the entire message with header of time and date stamp so nothing can be taken out of context.

 

[marku1999]

from Lonnie Jacobs [email protected]
to Mark Urban <[email protected]>
date Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 9:50 PM
subject Re: payment recieved
mailed-by insightbb.com
Important mainly because of the people in the conversation.

hide details 9:50 PM (52 minutes ago)


Mark,



I'm only going to tell you this one more time! PLEASE STOP THREATENING TO BLAST ME ON FAUNA! AS OF THIS MORNING I HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DO WITH REPTILES! I AM NOW INTO A NEW BREEDING PROJECT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY KIND OF REPTILE! I HAVE E-MAILED THE ADMIN AT FAUNA AND REQUESTED THEY CANCEL MY FAUNA ACCOUNT! SO TO BE HONEST I COULDN'T CARE ANY LESS ABOUT YOU POSTING BAD STUFF ABOUT ME! Now, I looked at the pictures. I see nothing wrong with her. As she gets older and puts on more weight, she will fill out. What you are referring to is actually her spine. I sent your pics to some friends and they agree with me.

She is in my honest opinion a healthy animal.

 

[lancehead1980]

hmmm

its kind of funny that he only posted certain emails and wasnt going to post the rest.... lol he was only going to show everyone what he wanted them too see.

 

[marku1999]

Please take a look at post # 7 point # 6 where he says he was a boa breeder for 7 years.
Please see the email below where he says he was breeder tfor 5 years - this was just a couple weeks ago!

rom Lonnie Jacobs [email protected]
to [email protected]
date Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 10:01 PM
subject Re: uros
mailed-by insightbb.com
Important mainly because of your interaction with messages in the conversation.

hide details Jul 31


Mark,



Shipping is $46.00 via Fed-Ex overnight. To be completely honest with you on their lineage I'm not exactly sure. I was a boa breeder for 5 years and was ready for something new. I bought the Mali's directly from Doug Dix, they are from his Mali (Clown Line). As far as the Ornates, I called Lindsay Pike. I wasn't going to buy Ornates from anyone else. He has the best name in the business and he was the one I wanted to deal with. I told him exactly what I was looking for which of course he did not have. He called me back a few days later and told me he had sold exactly what I was looking for to a guy in Bradenton FL. and that guy was looking to sell them to make room for his Thomasi. Lindsay gave him my number and assured me that these 2 animals were captive born and that he (Lindsay) had produced them. The rest is history. I paid $700.00 shipped for the pair. The female has great color and could possibly be a male mimic. The Male is going to be special. When he is under the heat lamp and completely fired up his entire head turns turquoise and the base of his tail gets a really pretty royal blue. I took Lindsay's advice and I've housed the males and females together without any problems what so ever. Obviously they are a year apart and are completely unrelated. I do not know if any of the parents were captive born although I assume thats at least partly the case. $546.00 shipped.



Thanks

And let me know if you have any questions.



Lonnie Jacobs

 

[lancehead1980]

lol

the first message DID have a time and date stamp. I thought it was obvious that the other 2 were from today.

 

[marku1999]

its kind of funny that he only posted certain emails and wasnt going to post the rest.... lol he was only going to show everyone what he wanted them too see.

The important thing is I proved you to be a LIAR - you can't even remember the lies YOU YOURSELF WROTE!!!!!!

 

[lancehead1980]

age?

what are you like 16years old? you have blown this completely out of context. not that i really care. i've got better things to do. why don't you grow up and go be with your kid while he's in ICU at a hospital instead of being a jackass. goodluck with your pay-pal claim

 

[Lopann]

To be honest your both acting childish about the subject, more pictures on the OP side would be nice.