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Bad Guy Bad Guy East_Coast aka Peter Jolles

Pudgsr said:
my last post post on here about this is think whatever u guys want to. I know what I have and that is bone diseased. I talked to Ray from Designer Geckos this morning about this and he said what im telling him is bone disease. And if u dont think he is telling the truth i don't know who u trust. This is all drama by u guys. I just know i will never buy from a guy like this again ever and i don't care i u guys don't buy from me I already have a good customer base anyways. Pud
Click to expand...

So, Ray told you that your description fits bone disease. But who, besides yourself, can attest to your description being accurate? No one. I can't find the pics posted previously - have they been removed or am I just blind? Either way, by the description of them they are hard to see and show no obvious signs of any issues. Even if all you have a camera phone, if want advice on how to take better pictures with it and post them in their full resolution directly onto this thread, let me know and I will be happy to help you out. Until then, I am not inclined to believe you. I am not saying you are lying - you may truly believe that your accusations are accurate, but there's no evidence to show that you are right.
 
Kaminoke said:
So, Ray told you that your description fits bone disease. But who, besides yourself, can attest to your description being accurate? No one. I can't find the pics posted previously - have they been removed or am I just blind? Either way, by the description of them they are hard to see and show no obvious signs of any issues. Even if all you have a camera phone, if want advice on how to take better pictures with it and post them in their full resolution directly onto this thread, let me know and I will be happy to help you out. Until then, I am not inclined to believe you. I am not saying you are lying - you may truly believe that your accusations are accurate, but there's no evidence to show that you are right.
Click to expand...

Kaminoke,

His pics aren't really the issue. My pics are on page one of this thread and all were taken this past Saturday night. You can see what they look like without relying on Pud's WWII vintage Polaroid.
 
Hi All,

I don't know the details nor do I have time to get involved in this thread...super busy.

Jeff did call me yesterday and briefly described a shipment of geckos he received from someone. He said they looked bad and "some were walking on their elbows". Sounded like MBD to me, but I can't make a definitive diagnosis without seeing good quality pics, but from the sound of it that sounded like possible MBD. I'd highly suggest a good vet examine the animals to see if they can be saved, but this is costly. The other option might be to ship some of the geckos in questions to Dr. Klingenberg at Sheep Draw Vet Clinic in Greeley CO...his fees are reasonable and he'll give a diagnosis and treat accordingly. He is a great vet and very caring and reasonably priced...the best gecko vet in the world IMO.

I will say this. Jeff has bought several geckos from us and has been a solid customer, and we've had no issues with him.

That's about all I can say at this point. If I get time later I'll review the posts on this thread to see what's going on.

As an aside, it is imperative for newbies to know that supplementation is crucial to leos since they do not get adequate light for D3 production and calcium assimilation. Not only do feeders need to be well-gutloaded, but geckos under 40g must have their insects dusted and all leos should have a separate dish of the mixture that they can free-feed from. We use a 50-50 mixture of RepCal with D3 combined with Herptivite and have had zero issues with MBD. Remember that young geckos grow at an extremely rapid rate and their bones need to be strong to support their rapidly growing frame.

Hope this helps.

Thanks to Kristi for asking for my input. I'll try to get back here later if time permits.

Ray - Designer Geckos
 
Thank you for replying Ray. Hopefully you'll get time to read everything.

I pretty much figured that was how the conversation went.
 
I have two reptile vet specialists in my area who either wouldn't charge to take a quick look or would only charge a small fee to say, yeah somethings wrong here. Not to diagnose the situation just confirm somethings up. Just do it.
 
East_Coast said:
Kaminoke,

His pics aren't really the issue. My pics are on page one of this thread and all were taken this past Saturday night. You can see what they look like without relying on Pud's WWII vintage Polaroid.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they all look fine in those pics. I guess in a nutshell I was just saying that so far all of his "evidence" is his verbal opinion; none of it is anything close to proof that his accusations are not false or misguided. So really there's not much else he can do but post proof if he has it.
 
The photos he did post were awful and too overexposed to see if the geckos had metabolic bone disease or not. Him verbally describing them to someone else means zilch on the BOI. Jeff needs to post better photos, or better yet a vet report AND current pictures. Otherwise his claims are not worth much at all.
 
And I agree that the photos provided by Peter in this thread do not show geckos with any mbd symptoms of any sort.
 
for all those wondering--I talked to Ray from Designer Geckos today and have concluded that the best think is to take the ones I have in question to the vet on Monday. The vet is Jennifer Garner from Mobile Animal Clinic in Omaha. She is listed in the reptiles magazine as a reptile vet. Once i have the report it will be on here. If im right we will see what happens and if im wrong im will total apologize for everything that has happened. Pud
 
That's good Jeff. Shouldn't cost more than a check up visit for all gecko's just to get an opinion.
 
Its posted up she said since the geckos were so small she couldnt actually determine if they have a done disease or not. She told me to get them on calcium and supplements right away on which i have already done. Pud
 
Since the vet can't determine MBD or not, and you were so sure about it I'd say you owe the seller an apoplgy and the thread a retraction post. After all, this will be here forever.
 
And I'm thinking mainly of YOUR reputation here. I think anybody with sense is going to interpret this as a buyer who flew off the handle for no reason and a seller who did nothing wrong.
 
It says received in shipment less than 24 hrs prior to presentation?? What does that mean?? Am I reading it wrong (which is very much possible) you started the thread on 8/17 and the letter is dated 8/22, just want to make sure I am reading it right..
 
My apologies, I am on a mobile and just read Pud's second post without reading the vet letter. I thought he was just summing it up for us. Very sorry about that, everyone.
 
Pudgsr said:
Here is what i got from the vet i said her name was Jennifer but it is Melissa A. Garner as in Reptiles Magazine here's what she said.

View attachment 278404
Click to expand...

Jeff,

You have had the geckos for 7 days now.

You received no geckos from me with any broken bones. Further, I sent the geckos properly with packing material (either crumpled newspaper or spaghum moss, see post #2 in this thread for a picture of the box with everything packed.) in each deli container. You lied about this fact - what else are you not being truthful about?

I don't believe any of this and I am wondering WHICH geckos you brought to the Dr.'s office.

I am also considering calling the animal control / welfare office in your area and making them aware of this thread. If I was a conspiracy theorist I might deduce that YOU broke their bones and killed one (or defrosted one of your own dead ones) for the Dr. visit.

I would like to say I am done with this thread but of course that would be an empty promise. As childish and ridiculous as this is I will have to sty tuned since you are trying to damage me personally.
I am an adult but none of this feels like a conversation that adults would normally be having.

Finally, I am very sorry for the geckos. It appears I sent them to Death Row by selling them to you.
 
East_Coast said:
Jeff,

I don't believe any of this and I am wondering WHICH geckos you brought to the Dr.'s office.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

That PDF and the actual time frame don't jive. You had them for more than 24 hours before taking them to the vet. Makes me wonder if you lied to the vet and if the geckos you took were even from Peter.
 
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