I had intended on not getting involved in this thread, but since there seems to be some confusion as to people "attacking" the OP, I felt the need to put points of criticism together in a neat little package to drive a few points home.
But before I get into that ... you bought animals from someone who runs an "exotic animal market". Not a private breeder. Not a private hobbyist. If you are unaware of the risks involved in that, you may want to do further research on the industry as a whole.
This is not me defending Ken, as I know nothing about him on a personal level nor have I bought anything from him, I am stating a simple fact. If you want the private breeder experience, buy from a private breeder. End of story.
I bought what was supposed to be a "sexed pair" of Rosy Boas for $357.
That is exactly what you recieved.
When they arrived, they were in the same container with no indication as to the sexing of the snakes.
It is not uncommon, in this industry, for smaller snakes to be shipped together either in the same container or the same bag. I have recieved animals this way as I am sure many others have. Is it the way I would ship them? No. Does it work? Sure.
When confronted, Ken said he would not pay my Vet bill to have the snakes sexed. He went on to imply that I was ignorant because I could not probe them myself.
In anticipation of breeding, at some point, yes, you should have this knowledge. Otherwise, you are at the mercy of Murphy's Law, which is never something anyone wants to be subjected to without any form of control.
That aside, I would to point out the fact that you state you "confronted" Ken. While this may simply be just a poor choice of words on your part, in seeing how quick you are to anger and how emotional you are in this entire mess, I would have to surmise you approached Ken in an aggressive manner. No one ever wants to be approached this way and often times it makes sellers have no desire to deal with the buyers. On top of it all, you called a man specifically to tell him you do not trust his ability to sex his animals. I would not have offered to pay your veterinarian's overpriced sexing fee either.
I will state, what he did offer you is industry standard. Unless you can prove that the animals are not the proper sex or that something is wrong with the animals and it is the fault of the seller, then you must pay return shipping if you are unhappy with the product. That's how it is for everyone.
Let me state, "I admit I am no expert". However, I have bought "sexed pairs" from 17 other breeders around the USA and every single time....they were shipped in seperate containers and clearly marked by sex. This is common practice among suppliers. I believed I had 4 years, until my babies grew upo and had babies, before I needed to learn how to probe....and even then I was planning to have the Vet do a Clutch at a time since she charges no more for a Clutch than for 1 snake.
In having purchased from 17 other breeders, you know how 17 other breeders package their animals. That does not make it the industry standard or the norm. Packaging varies from person to person. Now, as for waiting four years to learn to probe or sex the animals, that is just bizarre too. Most exotic vets. know the bare minimum when it comes to snakes, so it is possible for the sexing to be inaccurate there. That aside, very few vets. know how to pop, so trying to prob babies is a very risky and very dangerous thing. Learning how to pop them from a breedder that has the experience would be a better route for you to have gone.
When I did take the animals to the vet to be sexed, I found they were also infested with mites!!! Ken just blows this off as being "typical when you buy a snake and you should have the common sense to know how to treat for mites". This is the quality of animal, customer service, and feedback you get from Exotic Pets LLC.
I've had mites. I've had them in a mild case and I have had them in an extreme case. How in the world did you notice the mites four days after you recieved them and only when you vet. told you about them? That just seems beyond absurd to me and the fact you refuse to provide proof of this supposed infestation leaves much to be desired for your credibility as well. A simple picture will suffice. If it is as bad as you say, the mites should be easy to spot.
Now, do not misconstrue this as me stating it is okay if they do have mites because under no circumstances is it acceptable for CBB animals to be sold with mites, but yes, sadly, sometimes, it does happen. Still, why you refuse to post proof leaves doubt.
I, personally, will never buy from Ken again....AT ANY PRICE!
Best regards to you all,
Denny Joe Hatcher
And you shouldn't, especially after this little fiasco, but I do feel you have made mountains out of mole hills.
A few more points to offer ... I understand you are on a fixed income and disabled, but I do have to wonder the logic in being in this type of hobby on a fixed income. What happens when an emergency arises and an animal needs immediate attention? What happens when something happens to you that you need to shell out their food money on? Really, these are things for you to consider.
I appreciate your service, but throwing it in the faces of others is not honorable nor is it endearing. Please, out of respect for yourself and others who have served and are serving, do not do that.
I truly believe that everyone is entitled to post a thread about a transaction with a buyer or seller and if the believe the person they delt with is a bad guy, they reserve the right to post a bad guy thread wout ppl jumping down their throat. I for one learned that should I decide to do business with Ken, I must be very specific in how I want my animals shipped and have a bottle of p.a.m ready bc if Ken shipped animals with mites and didn't know they had mites, chances are a goo portion of his collection have mites.. IF they did come w mites bc I still have seen no proof of the mites.
I just see a very distinct pattern of behaivor in the BOI and it really has alot of bullying and immature badgering and prodding. I am not taking sides, but the poster did not get frustrated and arrogant until ppl started telling him he never should have posted this bc it's not "bad guy" worthy and that he should be able to probe and that he's on their "pntbfost" list and etc.. Let's try to take a step back from the insults and remember why the BOI is here - not to insult ppl or judge them, but to read about ppls experiences and to use the knowledge when entering into future transactions. I really think the side banter about whether this is a valid bad guy topic or whether certain ppl would buy or sell to other certain ppl is childish and ultimately is tarnishing the whole meaning and purpose of the BOI. I know I recently was ripped off very badly, but after reading thru many BOI threads, I chose not to start one bc of a pattern of what the threads turn in to .. And if I were to post my experience I wouldn't want a bunch of ppl standing up for the other person and demanding things that can't be produced or proven.. In this thread numerous ppl posted they had excellent transactions w Ken and he was a great breeder - well that's all well and good but start a good guy thread for Ken then - don't take away from this threads importance by voicing your experience on someone elses thread. This is how I feel and I hope that in the future the BOI can become a place where both sides can voice their story, and ppl can read and base their decisions to or not to deal with those ppl on their own privately and not in a vicious back and forth with the original poster.
As for this post ... please, get off your high horse. You seem to have an issue with the BOI simply because people disagreed with you and poked holes into what you thought to be infallable logic. I have seen nothing from you but automatic assumptions of attacking, degredation, berating and rudeness. While I will be the first to admit the BOI has its moronic moments where it gets out of hand, I have also seen it fix many, many things that otherwise would not have been fixed.
If you have an issue with it, stay away from it, as I have offered before.
People who do not post their bad experiences here for fear of being attacked are either lacking in confidence or are not as sure about their bad experience as they thought they were. This experience was
