Info Johathon at Breeders Circle saying his Citrus Pastel WO makes our Power House WO

[Chris Kennard]

This IS Kevin Matthews actually, I know him from when he lived in Arizona. Kevin has suffered multiple strokes and IS termanilly ill. Fortunatley he has found help composing his point, that's all no "Fish" as far as I know Kevin.Talk to txt sucks for getting your point across.

OK. This is the post you referred to? "As far as I know" Kevin???????????? Terminally ill" Mountain seems to have forgotten to mention that!

 

[Chris Kennard]

I actually never said I know the person with the medical condition. You might want to re-read the posts. Why don't you grow up and stop acting like a kid with all your name-calling. I won't derail this further because it's obvious you want to go back and forth and fight about someone who this thread isn't even about. We are waiting for either Jonathan or Clark to come back on here, not you.

That is the classic "I'm busted" post. Toodles!

 

[dustinNMpythons]

I'm not busted, Bryan is a good guy who has a good reputation on fauna so I trust him if he says he knows the guy. I'm not going anywhere I'll be watching the thread, I'm just going to ignore you!

 

[KingBowser]

I'm still not seeing any connection between citrus and "white-out". Does anyone else?

 

[rjs73]

I don't see anything "special." Any of the genes in the animals could have produced the morphs presented.

Look at Clarks Whiteout Pastel Mojave. His is no very close to mine. Show me pics of Pastel Yellowbellies that look like the ones I have pictured? Look at Clarks pics of his Pastels, they look like Citrus Pastels. And his 'Whiteout" animal looks just like the normals that come out of the Citrus line.

 

[KingBowser]

Maybe they all made an agreement to put all their eggs in one basket and split the profits?

You may have very well hit the nail on the head.

 

[Power House Reptiles]

Rob,
Just wanted to say you have it exactly right. Except I emailed Amir saying it has nothing to do with the Citrus Pastel after we made the Mojave Washout clutch. He then proceeded to go to Tinley Park and had a campaign that weekend to try and convince everyone that our snakes are just extreme calicos. He had no luck doing it since our patsave calico washout was there. When you see these snakes in person there is no comparison between tho two genes period. Our morph was hi jacked and misrepresented as we all know for obvious reasons for the two in question. We also had people go to Jonathon before we came to the BOI and he wouldn't listen. Before the BOI thread, Clark called Jonathon as well and he wouldn't listen to anything Clark had to say. He just talked over Clark. As you can see they are still trying to Hi jack our Washout but the truth is out now in the open. Now everyone knows what really happened. Thanks in advance

Joe Capone

 

[Power House Reptiles]

Sorry guys,
This is the thread I was responding to. My post right above this one.

Joe Capone

 

[Power House Reptiles]

Here it is
Jonathan,
This is your BOI thread, not anybody else's.

Quote:
Once again:
You have been accused of misrepresenting animals, and selling false hets.
You can not simply come to a resolve behind the scenes with your accuser, and make this go away.
You should be open and honest, and speak for yourself, rather then hiding behind Amir.

Are there markers that confirm whether or not a Citrus Pastel, (or any other mutation) is carrying the Whiteout gene, or not ?

If so, have you been selling the Citrus Pastels that do not have those markers, and are therefor just Citrus Pastels, and not Whiteouts, as "Citrus Whiteout Pastels" or "Citrus Whiteouts ?"

If not, and it is still considered to be a random mutation that pops up in Citrus Pastel clutches, (although it is not attached to the Citrus Pastel gene since there are Whiteout combos that do not contain the Citrus Pastel gene,) then say so.

Here are the facts, as I understand them:

Amir has been working with his line of Citrus Pastels since 2002, but has not produced these Whiteouts in his own collection.

Amir had taken in five figures worth of animals from Joe Capone, (at Wholesale prices,) flipped them for a profit, and then did not have the cash to pay PHR for the animals that he received.

Joe C. was willing to work out a part trade / part cash resolution to the outstanding debt.

PHR received a male Pastel Calico, (that Amir flipped to him, and did not even produce himself,) and the rest of the debt was paid in cash.

Amir continued selling his line of Citrus Pastels, at Pastel prices from '02 until 2010, when Clark / PHR produced the first Whiteout mutations.

PHR advertised their new Whiteout animals as "Amirs line of Citrus Pastel Whiteout..." (after wrongly assuming that is where the mutation came from, and attempting to give Amir credit for it.)
Amir denied that PHR's Whiteouts had anything to do with him.

Mike Bell then produced animals that look identical to the animals that Clark produced, a few months later.
Amir purchased some of those animals from Mike Bell.

Amir then used the animals that he purchased from Mike Bell, in order to use as an example of what one may, or may not expect to produce when using his Citrus line of Pastel.

Jonathan, and Amir are now selling Amirs line of Citrus Pastels, as "Citrus Whiteouts," or "Citrus Whiteout Pastels," at much higher prices then before PHR and Mike Bell produced their Whiteout mutations.

Jonathan said the mutation was random, and that there was no way to tell if a Citrus Pastel (or any other mutation, since the Whiteout gene is not connected to the Citrus gene,) was carrying the Whiteout gene or not.

Amir said that there are genetic markers for the "Whiteout" mutation over on BP.net.

Jonathan no longer wants to discuss this on the forums, and is waiting for Amir to clear everything up for us on Reptile Radio.

Now these are the facts, as I understand them.
I politely ask Jonathan, Amir, Clark, Joe C., or Mike Bell, to please correct any of this information, or misinformation.

Although you may take issue with the way in which they have handled this issue, I don't see how Joe C., or Clark Tucker of PHR, have been anything other then transparent here.

If anything shady is going on with this project, I think it's happening right here in the Sunshine State.

 

[FosterHerpetological]

Joe, I dont think you are allowed to post under Clark's account.

 

[WebSlave]

Joe, I dont think you are allowed to post under Clark's account.

That is correct.

Joe, you will need to use your own account on this site. Hijacking someone else's account or anyone otherwise allowing another member to use such an account to obscure the identity of the actual person making posts here is not allowed. It is expected that the name in the profile field for that purpose is the actual person making posts.

Please take care of this ASAP.

 

[Power House Reptiles]

This is Clark Tucker. Sorry about that!

Jonathan,
This is your BOI thread, not anybody else's.


Here are the facts, as I understand them:

Amir has been working with his line of Citrus Pastels since 2002, but has not produced these Whiteouts in his own collection.

Amir had taken in five figures worth of animals from Joe Capone, (at Wholesale prices,) flipped them for a profit, and then did not have the cash to pay PHR for the animals that he received.

Joe C. was willing to work out a part trade / part cash resolution to the outstanding debt.

PHR received a male Pastel Calico, (that Amir flipped to him, and did not even produce himself,) and the rest of the debt was paid in cash.

Amir continued selling his line of Citrus Pastels, at Pastel prices from '02 until 2010, when Clark / PHR produced the first Whiteout mutations.

PHR advertised their new Whiteout animals as "Amirs line of Citrus Pastel Whiteout..." (after wrongly assuming that is where the mutation came from, and attempting to give Amir credit for it.)
Amir denied that PHR's Whiteouts had anything to do with him.

Mike Bell then produced animals that look identical to the animals that Clark produced, a few months later.
Amir purchased some of those animals from Mike Bell.

Amir then used the animals that he purchased from Mike Bell, in order to use as an example of what one may, or may not expect to produce when using his Citrus line of Pastel.

Jonathan, and Amir are now selling Amirs line of Citrus Pastels, as "Citrus Whiteouts," or "Citrus Whiteout Pastels," at much higher prices then before PHR and Mike Bell produced their Whiteout mutations.

Jonathan said the mutation was random, and that there was no way to tell if a Citrus Pastel (or any other mutation, since the Whiteout gene is not connected to the Citrus gene,) was carrying the Whiteout gene or not.

Amir said that there are genetic markers for the "Whiteout" mutation over on BP.net.

Jonathan no longer wants to discuss this on the forums, and is waiting for Amir to clear everything up for us on Reptile Radio.

Now these are the facts, as I understand them.
I politely ask Jonathan, Amir, Clark, Joe C., or Mike Bell, to please correct any of this information, or misinformation.

Although you may take issue with the way in which they have handled this issue, I don't see how Joe C., or Clark Tucker of PHR, have been anything other then transparent here.

If anything shady is going on with this project, I think it's happening right here in the Sunshine State.

Rob,
Just wanted to say you have it exactly right. Except Joe emailed Amir saying it has nothing to do with the Citrus Pastel after we made the Mojave Washout clutch. Amir then proceeded to go to Tinley Park and had a campaign that weekend to try and convince everyone that our snakes are just extreme calicos. He had no luck doing it since our Pastave Calico Washout and Mojave Washout was there. When you see these snakes in person there is no comparison between the two genes, period! Joe has seen Super Citrus and Super Citrus crosses at Amir's facility and they are nice animals but definitely not Washouts. Our morph was hi jacked and misrepresented as we all know for obvious reasons for the two in question. We also had people go to Jonathon before we came to the BOI and he wouldn't listen. Before the BOI thread, I called Jonathon as well and he wouldn't listen to anything I had to say. He just talked over me. As you can see they are still trying to hi jack our Washout but the truth is out now in the open. Now everyone knows what really happened.

Best Regards,
Clark Tucker
www.powerhousereptiles.com
334-422-4246
www.power

 

[WebSlave]

This is Clark Tucker. Sorry about that!

Clark, you need to secure your account so that YOU are the only one using it. Shared accounts are not allowed on this site, and accounts that are obviously compromised are subject to being closed.

Please notify me when this has been accomplished.

 

[garweft]

Look at Clarks Whiteout Pastel Mojave. His is no very close to mine. Show me pics of Pastel Yellowbellies that look like the ones I have pictured? Look at Clarks pics of his Pastels, they look like Citrus Pastels. And his 'Whiteout" animal looks just like the normals that come out of the Citrus line.

Here's one from Justin Kobylka Reptiles website. This was the first site I checked and bam, how hard was that. Looks better than the ones you pictured IMHO. And he didn't even have to blow out the contrast in a photo editing program to make it look that way.

 

[garweft]

This looks like a more honest representation of your citrus YB..... Taken from your own add here... http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280890&highlight=yellowbelly+pastel

 

[Power House Reptiles]

Rich,

As of this point, I will be the only one of us on Fauna. I am about to change my username and password. No problem!

Best regards,
Clark Tucker
www.powerhousereptiles.com
334 422 4246

 

[KingBowser]

Man..shady shady shady.

 

[Power House Reptiles]

Hi all, This is Clark Tucker. I am the breeder here at Power House Reptiles. I would like to begin this post by giving my apology to anyone who may have thought that I came off as inappropriate or unprofessional in my original post here on the BOI.



Mutation: Washout

Genetics: Dominant (has not been proven co-dominat at this time)

Genetic Markers / Identification Markers: This genetic mutation identifies its self by appearing very light platinum and somewhat translucent at birth which diminishes as the animal matures. This mutation carries a broken or full dorsal stripe with a very light tail stripe. The base colors after color mutation is rather normal with the exception of some very bright whites and yellows in the lower portions of the alien heads, which are very busy patterned in the mid section of the animal. The top of the head of this animal is mohogany in color compared to the brown top of a normal ball pythons head.

Genetic marker is shown in all PHR Washout Mutations.

Examples of Washout Mutation:

Mutation: Pastel Washout

Genetics: Pastel/co-dominant X Washout/dominant possibly co-dominant

Genetic Markers / Identification Markers: This genetic mutation identifies its self by appearing to be a very light Super Pastel at birth that diminishes as the animal matures. This mutation is born with a white head that mutates with age into a light grey to light brown coloration depending on the line of Pastel used. This mutation gives the illusion of a ghostly white stripe that tries to connect the Pastels tail striping to all of the other dorsal stripes and/or spots.

Genetic marker is shown in all PHR Washout Mutations.

Examples of PHR Washout Mutations:

Mutation: Mojave Washout

Genetics: Mojave/co-dominant X Washout/dominant possibly co-dominant

Genetic Markers / Identification Markers: This genetic mutation identifies its self by washing out the last 2/3rds of the body and by greatly reducing and mutating the patterns of the Mojave gene. This mutation carries a broken to full dorsal stripe regardless of the appearance of the parent Mojave.

Genetic marker is shown in all PHR Washout Mutations.

Example of PHR Washout Mutation:

Mutation: Pastel Calico Washout

Genetics: Pastel/co-dominant X Calico/dominant X Washout/dominant possibly co-dominant

Genetic Markers / Identification Markers: This genetic mutation identifies its self by washing out the last 2/3rds of the body and by greatly reducing and mutating the patterns of the Calico and Pastel genes. This mutation replaces much of the black back of the Calico and replaces it with broken to full dorsal stripe. This dorsal stripe will be yellow but were the Calico and Washout genes converge the stripe may be white.

Genetic marker is shown in all PHR Washout Mutations.

Example of PHR Washout Mutation:

Mutation: Pastel Mojave Washout

Genetics: Pastel/co-dominant X Mojave/co-dominant X Washout/dominant possibly co-dominant

Genetic Markers / Identification Markers: This genetic mutation identifies its self by washing out the last 2/3rds of the body and by greatly reducing and mutating the patterns of the Mojave and the Pastel gene. This mutation carries a broken to full dorsal stripe regardless of the appearance of the parent Mojave. As with the Mojave Washout mutation the animal carries a nice rich brown upper back color and nice orange coloration in the mid section. With the Pastel gene added this mutation gets more intense blushing that migrates up into the dorsal area.

Genetic marker is shown in all PHR Washout Mutations.

Example of PHR Washout Mutation:

Mutation: Pastel Mojave Calico Washout

Genetics: Pastel/co-dominant X Mojave/co-dominant X Calico/dominant X Washout/dominant possibly codominant

Genetic Markers / Identification Markers: This genetic mutation identifies its self by washing out the last 2/3rds of the body and by greatly reducing and mutating the patterns of the Mojave and Pastel genes. This mutation replaces much of the black back of the Calico and replaces it with broken to full dorsal stripe. This dorsal stripe will be yellow but were the Calico and Washout genes converge the stripe may be white. The Mojave gene adds a rich brown to the upper back that mixes into a light orange coloration in the sides and skirts.

Genetic marker is shown in all PHR Washout Mutations.

Examples of PHR Washout Mutations:

Mutation : Super Pastel Calico Washout

Genetics: Pastel/co-dominant X Pastel/co-dominant X Calico/dominant X Washout/dominant possibly co-dominant

Genetic Markers / Identification Markers: This genetic mutation identifies its self by washing out at least the last 2/3rds of the animal. This mutation erodes all of the black back of the Calico and replaces it with a full dorsal stripe. This dorsal stripe will be very light yellow to white but were the Calico and Washout genes converge the stripe may be white. When this mutation is born it will usually appear silverish white in color with very little to no pattern in the last 2/3rds of the body. As this mutation matures the washed out areas will change in color from a off white to a nice orange depending on the Pastel lines used to creat the mutation.

Genetic marker is shown in all PHR Washout Mutations.

Examples of PHR Washout Mutations:

Here at PHR we have been working on this project over the last few years and we have many more exciting clutches due from this morph in the near future crossed with other dominant/co-dominat and simple recessive mutations. We just wanted to clarify our mutations that we have created and that we stand behind 100%. This mutation is a dominant gene at this time until we further more prove out the co-dominant side of it, fingers crossed. We believe that the Super Washout will be tremendous!!

Best regards,
Clark Tucker
www.powerhousereptiles.com
334-422-4246

 

[ericdaley]

You should have an apology for Jonathan and amir or at least post this add in you'r own thred!!!!!!!!!(IMO)

 

[RJK890]

You should have an apology for Jonathan and amir or at least post this add in you'r own thred!!!!!!!!!(IMO)

IMO, Maybe you should have sent that post to PHR in a PM, rather then trying to stir the pot and derail this thread.
I don't see where Clark owes Amir or Jonathan an apology at this time.

This thread is here because PHR has accused Amir and Jonathan of knowingly misrepresenting their Citrus Pastels as being able to produce the PowerHouse Washouts, and flat out lying about the mutation having anything to do with Amirs line of Citrus Pastel.

Amir and Jonathan have contradicted each other as to whether or not a Citrus Pastel has genetic markers that indicate wheter it is also carrying the Whiteout mutation, or not.

Jonathan now refuses to answer any of the questions that have been asked of him, and is hiding behind Amir.

Amir is putting together some PR spin, that he is going to deliver on an upcoming RepileRadio show.

(Why would the "Bush Leaguers" want to do a show with a mass flipper like Amir, that has been flipping the "market crashing" MKR, and PHR animals for years ?
I mean if they hate flippers so badly, why not skip the "middle man," and just have Joe C. on the show.)


Meanwhile, Amir and Jonathan, (as well as a few others,) may very well be breeding Citrus Pastels to the animal(s) that Amir purchased from Mike Bell, (that are identical to the PHR Washout,) in order to mass produce Citrus Pastels that actually do carry the Washout gene, in order to cover up the misrepresentation, and justify jacking the price up on the Citrus Pastels after PHR and Mike Bell produced the first Whiteout / Washout / Whitewash mutations in 2010.
(Eight years after Amir had proven out, and he and others had been working with the Citrus Pastel.)

I guess I should I apologize now ?

Jonathan,
This is your BOI thread, not anybody else's.

Quote:
Once again:
You have been accused of misrepresenting animals, and selling false hets.
You can not simply come to a resolve behind the scenes with your accuser, and make this go away.
You should be open and honest, and speak for yourself, rather then hiding behind Amir.

Are there markers that confirm whether or not a Citrus Pastel, (or any other mutation) is carrying the Whiteout gene, or not ?

If so, have you been selling the Citrus Pastels that do not have those markers, and are therefor just Citrus Pastels, and not Whiteouts, as "Citrus Whiteout Pastels" or "Citrus Whiteouts ?"

If not, and it is still considered to be a random mutation that pops up in Citrus Pastel clutches, (although it is not attached to the Citrus Pastel gene since there are Whiteout combos that do not contain the Citrus Pastel gene,) then say so.

Amir has been working with his line of Citrus Pastels since 2002, but has not produced these Whiteouts in his own collection.

Amir had taken in five figures worth of animals from Joe Capone, (at Wholesale prices,) flipped them for a profit, and then did not have the cash to pay PHR for the animals that he received.

Joe C. was willing to work out a part trade / part cash resolution to the outstanding debt.

PHR received a male Pastel Calico, (that Amir flipped to him, and did not even produce himself,) and the rest of the debt was paid in cash.

Amir continued selling his line of Citrus Pastels, at Pastel prices from '02 until 2010, when Clark / PHR produced the first Whiteout mutations.

PHR advertised their new Whiteout animals as "Amirs line of Citrus Pastel Whiteout..." (after wrongly assuming that is where the mutation came from, and attempting to give Amir credit for it.)
Amir denied that PHR's Whiteouts had anything to do with him.

Mike Bell then produced animals that look identical to the animals that Clark produced, a few months later.
Amir purchased some of those animals from Mike Bell.

Amir then used the animals that he purchased from Mike Bell, in order to use as an example of what one may, or may not expect to produce when using his Citrus line of Pastel.

Jonathan, and Amir are now selling Amirs line of Citrus Pastels, as "Citrus Whiteouts," or "Citrus Whiteout Pastels," at much higher prices then before PHR and Mike Bell produced their Whiteout mutations.

Jonathan said the mutation was random, and that there was no way to tell if a Citrus Pastel (or any other mutation, since the Whiteout gene is not connected to the Citrus gene,) was carrying the Whiteout gene or not.

Amir said that there are genetic markers for the "Whiteout" mutation over on BP.net.

Jonathan no longer wants to discuss this on the forums, and is waiting for Amir to clear everything up for us on Reptile Radio.

Now these are the facts, as I understand them.
I politely ask Jonathan, Amir, Clark, Joe C., or Mike Bell, to please correct any of this information, or misinformation.

Although you may take issue with the way in which they have handled this issue, I don't see how Joe C., or Clark Tucker of PHR, have been anything other then transparent here.

If anything shady is going on with this project, I think it's happening right here in the Sunshine State.