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Bad Guy offthearkexoticpets

AbsoluteApril said:
that is a very good point.




perhaps I was misunderstood, I was not saying the discussion was not relevant in regards to what happened here but I thought it would make a good thread in the discussion forums so people could talk generally about 'what I would do is'.
Click to expand...

I did misunderstand, sorry April. And you are right, it is a great topic because this situation comes up on the BOI not infrequently.
 
Focal said:
Just a tip, when I send my initial email to a seller, I follow it up with "Do you accept paypal and if so, what's your email?" That way, once I get the reply and am satisfied, I can immediately pay and seal the deal. If they don't take paypal, I'll request a phone number for payment via CC. It's a dog-eat-dog world and you have to be willing to pay the moment you decide you want it or you might lose it.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I never shop unless I have the money & time to seal the deal immediately.
 
It is just not fair to a seller to lose a sale while he is trying to find someone and offer them the opportunity to make the payment or deposit they should have made from the get go.
One could just imagine if the seller had 3 or 4 prospective buyers, he/she would be all day trying to notify.
If this seller had accepted a deposit of as little as $10, I'd have a different viewpoint, but there was no cash on the table at all here.
 
There didn't even need to be an exchange of money for this to have been a bad move on the sellers part.

if the OP had gotten a response from the seller stating he would wait until the evening for payment, and then turned around a sold the animal, I could understand being upset and confused.

But no actual agreement had taken place. The seller did not state he would wait for payment. The OP did not call before making payment to make sure everything was in order. He just sent money. The seller noticed the money and refunded it immediately.
 
pardon my horrible typing today. I'm watching Family guy and sniffling in a big blanket bundle on my couch today lol.
 
AbsoluteApril said:
Is it common for someone to just send money without even talking to the seller first? That seems odd.
Anyways, maybe we should take this discussion to the business discussion forums as there are lots of view points and I think it would make for a good thread. I don't want to go too far off topic.

Obviously the seller in this case only cared about getting the $ from whoever sent it first.
Click to expand...

While I agree that this would make a great generic discussion, I'm going to respond here.
It may not be common for someon to just send money without first interacting with the seller, but it is done. I've done it myself. Look at it this way - as a buyer your are searching for an animal with specific traits, and not accepting anything that doesn't have the right look. One night, you are looking through the classifieds - and there she is. The price is right, and the look is awesome. You're sure that the seller will get many inquiries, including serious buyers...how do you move to the front of the line? You PAY for the snake. It takes a couple minutes to do a BOI search, then a few more to try to find payment information if it isn't posted; but it can often be done. Send payment, then an email stating that you have sent payment in full. There might be 30 inquiries ahead of you, but you have just stepped up and shown yourself to be the buyer. There are obviously reasons that it might not work out for you, but you've made your best effort.
Some people build shopping carts into their sites, so purchase is as simple as the click of a button

Now, the reason I posted here instead of waiting.
The OP put an unfavorable label on the seller. I've been in his shoes - having had snakes "sold out from under me" while I was waiting for payment information to be provided. I was not happy....however, as much of the response here has indicated, many sellers operate on a first to pay is the buyer policy. There is nothing wrong with that; and I find comments that the seller only cared about getting the money to be somewhat silly (and perhaps a little offensive). Why do any of us advertise animals? To sell them. Each seller is free to make his/her own decision whether to allow somebody time to make payment....and, in choosing to do so, needs to accept that turning away other buyers may result in not getting a sale.
I may not be a fan of Vinny - regardless of whether my single buying experience, or his antics here, are more to blame - but as long as he refunded the OPs payment promptly, I can't view him as a bad guy IN THIS CASE.

To put a slightly different perspective on it, what if the seller was somebody with multiple good guy threads? Let's use me as an example - what if I was the one that accepted somebody else's payment, and refunded another buyer (or two) that really wanted a particular snake? Would I be criticized for taking the quick sale...the first payment? I've got news for you - I've done it. I've also declined sales simply because I didn't want to deal with the purchaser. I think most people - except, perhaps, the offended parties - would say that is my right.

To the OP - I feel your pain. Like I said earlier in this post, I've been there...had snakes that I really wanted, and had every intention of purchasing, sold after I had discussed payment options with the seller. Yes, I was upset at the time...but, from a business perspective, I can understand; because I have also had countless payment promises that went unfulfilled. You can say it is bad customer service to not allow a customer sufficient time to pay; but it is also bad business (and bad customer service) to turn away an actual payment in favor of one that may not arrive. Feel free to hold a grudge against the seller (I have, in some of those situations, lol), but accept it & continue your search.
 
I hate typos...especially when there is an edit button that I can't take advantage of.
 
hhmoore said:
While I agree that this would make a great generic discussion, I'm going to respond here.
It may not be common for someon to just send money without first interacting with the seller, but it is done. I've done it myself. Look at it this way - as a buyer your are searching for an animal with specific traits, and not accepting anything that doesn't have the right look. One night, you are looking through the classifieds - and there she is. The price is right, and the look is awesome. You're sure that the seller will get many inquiries, including serious buyers...how do you move to the front of the line? You PAY for the snake. It takes a couple minutes to do a BOI search, then a few more to try to find payment information if it isn't posted; but it can often be done. Send payment, then an email stating that you have sent payment in full. There might be 30 inquiries ahead of you, but you have just stepped up and shown yourself to be the buyer. There are obviously reasons that it might not work out for you, but you've made your best effort.
Some people build shopping carts into their sites, so purchase is as simple as the click of a button

Now, the reason I posted here instead of waiting.
The OP put an unfavorable label on the seller. I've been in his shoes - having had snakes "sold out from under me" while I was waiting for payment information to be provided. I was not happy....however, as much of the response here has indicated, many sellers operate on a first to pay is the buyer policy. There is nothing wrong with that; and I find comments that the seller only cared about getting the money to be somewhat silly (and perhaps a little offensive). Why do any of us advertise animals? To sell them. Each seller is free to make his/her own decision whether to allow somebody time to make payment....and, in choosing to do so, needs to accept that turning away other buyers may result in not getting a sale.
I may not be a fan of Vinny - regardless of whether my single buying experience, or his antics here, are more to blame - but as long as he refunded the OPs payment promptly, I can't view him as a bad guy IN THIS CASE.

To put a slightly different perspective on it, what if the seller was somebody with multiple good guy threads? Let's use me as an example - what if I was the one that accepted somebody else's payment, and refunded another buyer (or two) that really wanted a particular snake? Would I be criticized for taking the quick sale...the first payment? I've got news for you - I've done it. I've also declined sales simply because I didn't want to deal with the purchaser. I think most people - except, perhaps, the offended parties - would say that is my right.

To the OP - I feel your pain. Like I said earlier in this post, I've been there...had snakes that I really wanted, and had every intention of purchasing, sold after I had discussed payment options with the seller. Yes, I was upset at the time...but, from a business perspective, I can understand; because I have also had countless payment promises that went unfulfilled. You can say it is bad customer service to not allow a customer sufficient time to pay; but it is also bad business (and bad customer service) to turn away an actual payment in favor of one that may not arrive. Feel free to hold a grudge against the seller (I have, in some of those situations, lol), but accept it & continue your search.
Click to expand...

:iagree: x2! Couldn't have put it better myself.
 
I see both sides. But I will never conduct sales like that. That's just me I guess. If I have given a buyer all the details, agreed to a ship date, accepted a counter offer to my listed price and given my paypal, then in my mind they are sold unless I don't hear back for an extended period of time (longer than 5 hrs lol) more like a day or so. And if I don't hear back I send a email asking if they are still buying and if I don't hear back soon they are still fair game to other buyers.

They already told me someone called in with a cc and paid no other contact before with the buyer. I had no clue who they were and did not know they had a call in and pay with cc option most don't or I would have. Ether way I think the horse has been beaten.

I won't send money until all terms have been agreed to but that is just me. Maybe ill re think that method but more than likly not.

Thanks for all the points of view though, as always its been interesting.
 
Figures - with the length of my post, I still managed to leave out an important thought:

It bears remembering that Off The Ark is a pet shop. A real store that people can walk into and buy things...not an internet only business handled by email and an occasional phone call; and not a hobby breeder that only sells the babies he produces.
The latter certainly allows for a lot more flexibility in sales.
 
In the emails you sent him, did you give him a definite "Yes I'm going to buy them I'm going to pay you via paypal in 5 hours" ? Yes you asked for price and shipping information but that's not always a clear answer for someone who is running a business.
I work at a garden center. If someone calls and inquires about our mulch prices and delivery schedule but they don't give me a definite answer, I'm not going to hold that spot open especially if someone else calls and says " Yes I want to place an order for Mulch, here's my CC number." And yes I do get people who think they deserved that spot even though they didn't give a definite yes or no for an order.

I'm not saying this to be mean but just adding my two cents.
 
In this situation it seems like you were very committed to making the purchase. I feel like the seller could have at least contacted you in the interim to let you know there was another party interested. Maybe if you had known the animals weren't being held for you, you could have payed sooner and secured the deal.

Personally, I believe that communication in these situations is key. If two people are interested in the same animal, the first person has "dibs" if they want to go ahead and make the purchase and I inform the second person that there was already someone looking at that particular animal. That way no feels like an animal was sold out from under them. The idea is keep everyone happy whether they purchase or not. It's called customer service. :)
 
Sushi Dragons said:
In this situation it seems like you were very committed to making the purchase. I feel like the seller could have at least contacted you in the interim to let you know there was another party interested. Maybe if you had known the animals weren't being held for you, you could have payed sooner and secured the deal.

Personally, I believe that communication in these situations is key. If two people are interested in the same animal, the first person has "dibs" if they want to go ahead and make the purchase and I inform the second person that there was already someone looking at that particular animal. That way no feels like an animal was sold out from under them. The idea is keep everyone happy whether they purchase or not. It's called customer service. :)
Click to expand...
Telling the first person that somebody else is interested often comes off as sales pressure, IMO. Even when it is legit, I think a lot of people receive it that way.
Telling other interested parties that somebody else is "looking at" an animal is great for the first person...but not everybody is receptive to that when they're prepared to make a purchase. Speaking only for myself, if I'm turned away, I generally won't look back.
 
[QUOTE=hhmoore;1423829]Telling the first person that somebody else is interested often comes off as sales pressure, IMO. Even when it is legit, I think a lot of people receive it that way.
Telling other interested parties that somebody else is "looking at" an animal is great for the first person...but not everybody is receptive to that when they're prepared to make a purchase. Speaking only for myself, if I'm turned away, I generally won't look back.[/QUOTE]

I agree. When I sold one of my first clutches, I had several people interested in one female. The first person to email me seemed serious, so I turned away 2 buyers waitingon payment. It never showed up, and the other buyers moved on. Now my policy is first to pay gets the animal. Its not because I don't care about my customers. I've just learned that its a logistical nightmare to do anything else. Especially doing business primarily by mail, I ended up waiting on emails from everyone and it was a huge headache.
 
ozz465 said:
Ive had the same thing happen to me, i take too long to send an actual payment and miss out on awesome deals .Seems this thread is in retaliation for them not selling the snake to you and actually going with someone with cash in hand.Next time have then payment ready when buying or make arrangements with the seller .
Click to expand...

Sorry but agreed. :/ If I'm gonna be running out somewhere while waiting on a reply from someone, even if I got no reply, I let them know I'm heading out and how long it'll be that they'll hear from me. I at least let them know I'm still definitely interested and once the info is sent and I get home, I'll pay in full that second.

That way, while I'm gone, it just strengthens the chance of someone else coming up and buying it and the seller saying "Well I haven't heard from them in 5hrs so since your ready to pay right this second, and I have no clue if they're gonna respond, go ahead".

I understand it's frustrating to lose out on something like this, but an email could've been sent out to let them know you were gonna be away from the comp for an extended period of time so they knew for sure you still wanted them. There really are a lot of people who go "Yeah I'll pay" and never do and you keep emailing em and harassing em and bugging em about it just for them to say "Nevermind, found something else, thanks". Hell, that's happened to me TONS, /RIGHT/ after I made a deal with someone and sent them info to pay!!! Lots of flakes out there - in business you HAVE to make sure you let them know you aren't one. :/
Just IMHO.
 
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