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Info TRUTHS ABOUT THE HIDDEN GENE WOMA THAT ARE IN DIRECT CONFLICT OF KEVIN MCCURELY(NERD)

Saskia,

This year I am breeding SS to Lesser littermate(SS) to try that.... I have tried the HG woma x HG woma stuff a number of times always with some sadness..... The PEARLS can be amazing but have the problems. I actually think I have two gravid females for this breeding.

The snakes that you will make with your SS will be the real deal with MANY possibilities. What Joe & Clark are making is limited with the "idea" of making the same stuff w/o the right genes.

I think I will now stare at my snakes..........

Joe & Clark next time come armed with something more than a PLASTIC SPORK when you try to defame myself and my animals!

Sorry to waste everyone's time....... I don't even know why I bothered.


Kevin
 
Ghi Reptiles said:
Hey Joe23,

I believe the granite gene is a separate gene that shows itself in different capacities. My original hidden gene woma granite yellow belly animal had a dot behind the head and that's it. He went on to sire everything from subtle granite combos to insane granite combos. I've also made a few granite normals from him (unless they were fluke granites with whacked out patterns). I've made normal hidden gene womas and granite hidden gene womas. Last season I made normal enchi hidden gene womas...no spot behind the head and no crazy granite pattern.

Regular womas have been out there for a long time now and I have yet to see anyone coming forward with soul suckers, infernos, enchifernos, angels of death, red spectrums, or anything close to them. I do believe the granite gene does influence the morph a great deal when it's present.

Just my thoughts buddy!
Click to expand...


thanks matt. that clears it up in my eyes.

just from the look of a normal granite (and the ones kevin has on his page are pretty crazy granites- not granites which look like a classic with a dot in the neck and 2 little tiny dots on the side), i thought it must have a crazier influence based on the look- but since i havent worked with that granite line i couldnt say anything about it.

ive seen many different granite lines which all act different (some look almost like classics but have a super that looks like a low quality ghi and some look super crazy which seem to have no super at all etc etc), so i was a bit skeptic, but hey- who can be mad at a person in the ballpython hobby to be a bit skeptic after recent discoveries in the hobby...lol
 
NERD said:
Saskia,

This year I am breeding SS to Lesser littermate(SS) to try that.... I have tried the HG woma x HG woma stuff a number of times always with some sadness..... The PEARLS can be amazing but have the problems. I actually think I have two gravid females for this breeding.



Kevin
Click to expand...

Okay, thanks...I hope you get some nice results.

I also hope other people will get some results from clutches they make with a (real)HG woma and Lesser/Butter so everybody knows exactly what your Lessers are HG or not and we can all move on, LOL... (at least I hoe so ;) )
 
I wonder if all of this confusion is in part to blame from the “hidden gene” label that is used with HG womas and NERD HG lesser? It is still unclear if a NERD HG lesser is needed to make soul suckers. I’ve read it both ways in this and other forum threads in the past. Let’s consider that a NERD HG lesser IS needed to make a soul sucker. Given what we know about lesser and platy daddies from RDR, is it possible that there is no hidden gene involved and that the NERD HG lesser is just another completely separate morph? We’ve seen all the subtleties and differences and seeming similarities among the BEL complex morphs. I wonder if the NERD line of lesser is genetically different enough such that it reacts differently with the HG woma than other lines of lessers/butters? No “hidden gene” or platty daddy gene involvement, just a subtly different morph. Just like the HG woma isn’t a woma with something extra. So I wonder if it would be better for all to just rename the “hidden gene” morphs and drop the “hidden gene” label, especially if they are in fact separate morphs?
 
Joe at PHR said:
Everything you are asking for has already been posted in the beginning. To Be Continued everyone can count on it ..:) As I recently sated, we will pick this up and continue when we have more breeding data. Thanks all and goodbye for now.
Click to expand...

Best statement made by Joe at PHR in this entire thread... honestly you'd think you'd wait until you had full proof and not jump the gun on one clutch which seems to be what happened here... Maybe having more proof before posting this thread would of been a smarter idea??:shrug01:

Ghi Reptiles said:
Nothing hidden gene woma there in your photos that I can see Joe...sorry. I've produced a lot of hidden gene woma animals...some with the granite showing and some not. Here's a pastel hidden gene woma granite to compare to your pastel hidden gene woma.

Mine
HGW%20Combo%203.jpg


Yours
HGWomaAd008.jpg


Your pastel animal looks like a normal pastel woma...I've seen a bunch of them for sale over the years. There are obvious differences between our two animals. Lots of breeders have tried the regular woma way out to make things like infernos and soul suckers and to date I haven't seen one made.
And looking at your original animal I would say not a hidden gene woma.
Click to expand...

Very well put... and I'm sorry Joe looks that way to me as well... No Hidden gene in your animals at all Joe... :shrug01: maybe something hidden to you but IMHO none of the animals you've listed pics of look anything like the HGW or any Hidden gene animal that I've seen Kevin produce or are said to be produced by Kevin and or people who are working with that gene

NERD said:
What Joe & Clark are making is limited with the "idea" of making the same stuff w/o the right genes.

I think I will now stare at my snakes..........

Joe & Clark next time come armed with something more than a PLASTIC SPORK when you try to defame myself and my animals!

Sorry to waste everyone's time....... I don't even know why I bothered.


Kevin
Click to expand...

Maybe they have a limited idea on the hidden gene?? :shrug01: Maybe they thought they would get you to release any new info:shrug01: or drop the ball on something you've got secretly cooking:shrug01:

I want to stare at you snakes too Kevin :rofl:

Next time Joe and Clark decide to to pull something like this they'll come with more proof better proof and well picture's that have some meaning and are actually the animals they are said to represent...

My guess is next time they try this again it will have something to do with whatever the newest proven morph is ... They apparently like the new morphs and try to discredit the people who actually produced said animals or proven said morphs then try to weasel their so called real deal animal onto the market at a higher price....
 
All this kinda reminds me of black holes. I know what they are but my mind can't really grasp it, lol.

If anything, I learned some from this thread. I do wish we could have disagreements without name calling though. I guess if politicians can't, it won't happen here either.

I think those of us that are genetic ignorant or near genetic ignorant were able to learn.
 
SERPENTS DEN said:
This thread is confusing, is this snake a HGW or just a normal Woma?
Click to expand...

after seeing the combos it made compared to the other hg womas combos posted id rather think its a normal woma, but this is one of the first ever released ones and the original hg woma mommy which started it all (kevin posted her on ks) had a pretty similar look to me.

so i dont know if the first combos kevin made with the original hg woma looked like this but since he never made a pewter hg woma with the original female i guess we will never know.


its clear that the hg womas from today look totally different then the original one (threw selective breeding in the past decade i guess), and the original one really looks similar to the normal woma, so i guess the only way to really know is to breed this snake to a lesser and compare it to the first soulsuckers which were made with the original female (if soulsuckers have been made with that female).


from the look we are used today that snake clearly looks like a normal woma to me, but again- if someone would show me the original hg woma today id say its a normal woma too (kevin apperently didnt saw the difference either, otherwise he wouldnt have both called woma in the start).

i think to know for sure it would be good to see the linage. if this snake is a direct baby from the original hg woma female, its a hg woma- if not its not.


so i guess right now no one can really tell u whats up with a 100% guarantee
 
joe23 said:
after seeing the combos it made compared to the other hg womas combos posted id rather think its a normal woma, but this is one of the first ever released ones and the original hg woma mommy which started it all (kevin posted her on ks) had a pretty similar look to me.

so i dont know if the first combos kevin made with the original hg woma looked like this but since he never made a pewter hg woma with the original female i guess we will never know.


its clear that the hg womas from today look totally different then the original one (threw selective breeding in the past decade i guess), and the original one really looks similar to the normal woma, so i guess the only way to really know is to breed this snake to a lesser and compare it to the first soulsuckers which were made with the original female (if soulsuckers have been made with that female).


from the look we are used today that snake clearly looks like a normal woma to me, but again- if someone would show me the original hg woma today id say its a normal woma too (kevin apperently didnt saw the difference either, otherwise he wouldnt have both called woma in the start).

i think to know for sure it would be good to see the linage. if this snake is a direct baby from the original hg woma female, its a hg woma- if not its not.


so i guess right now no one can really tell u whats up with a 100% guarantee
Click to expand...

Joe 23,

Did you happen to look at the pics I posted on FB????? I did that so people can see the difference.... I even posted the actual original mother(HG Woma)...The Dad was the line of Woma.

I don't know how to make this any clearer...... from the looks of your post you have not seen my pictures or something?????? You still seem unclear of what has been said.

Kevin
 
For the Record....

The Lessers that I sell I noted as HG Lessers for a single reason.... they make Soul Suckers for sure!!!

So, if I sell a HG Woma and a person has a Lesser Platinum not from my stock I am not able to GUARANTEE it will make Soul SUckers. I used the HG in front of my Lesser to note it. If people do not like this separation......... I do not know what to tell you.

They are very pretty and often look quite different than other Lessers that I see...


Noah's story on the Lesser and Platinum has changed and there is some talk about another snake that was involved in some of these breedings..... I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS THE FOUNDING STOCK for my Lesser.....


Other than that time will tell and I would expect other Lessers to make Soul Suckers....but I am not sure if all will.

THE END
 
joe23 said:
after seeing the combos it made compared to the other hg womas combos posted id rather think its a normal woma, but this is one of the first ever released ones and the original hg woma mommy which started it all (kevin posted her on ks) had a pretty similar look to me.

so i dont know if the first combos kevin made with the original hg woma looked like this but since he never made a pewter hg woma with the original female i guess we will never know.


its clear that the hg womas from today look totally different then the original one (threw selective breeding in the past decade i guess), and the original one really looks similar to the normal woma, so i guess the only way to really know is to breed this snake to a lesser and compare it to the first soulsuckers which were made with the original female (if soulsuckers have been made with that female).


from the look we are used today that snake clearly looks like a normal woma to me, but again- if someone would show me the original hg woma today id say its a normal woma too (kevin apperently didnt saw the difference either, otherwise he wouldnt have both called woma in the start).

i think to know for sure it would be good to see the linage. if this snake is a direct baby from the original hg woma female, its a hg woma- if not its not.


so i guess right now no one can really tell u whats up with a 100% guarantee
Click to expand...


Cp3_Pythons said:
It's a Woma in shed... :rofl: and that is it...
Click to expand...


Thanks, I'm no expert on HGW but it looks different than the HGW Kevin posted on his FB so I also agree it looks like just a plain ole Woma to me.


Kevin, what is your opinion?
 
Joe at PHR said:
There will also be many Soul Suckers made this season from a lot of people with just regular lessers.

To Be Continued Kevin you can count on it....:)
Click to expand...

Are you freakin serious? All this drama and the only thing you have is that you are hoping other people can make soul suckers? Something you have not done yourselves?

All this drama just so you can say to be continued without posting any kind of proof to your accusations?

The only thing I have read is you make accusations and then you brag about what you are going to be producing. Basically this isn't really about Kevin is it? This is about you causing drama and getting enough views so hopefully you can market yourself to these people

You said you had proof. Where is it already? you said you had e-mails. Where is it already?

Do you think Joe will miss that? NOPE. But he will ignore and or pretend that he missed it.
 
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