Bad Guy Perfect Predators..unreliable

[ronritzer]

The conduct of the sellers in question on a BOI thread go along way toward who people decide to do business with and who not too, beyoond the details of a transaction itself.

If this is how perfect predators responds to challenging situations, it speaks volumes of them as a vendor.

 

[Snake-Queen]

Manny, I have liked your page for a while now & have seen several boas that interest me ... they no longer hold my interest. My time is precious to me & you appear to waste your buyers time with excuses and lack of communication. In addition to your complete disregard for your customers, you talk down to your peers as if we are beneath you. That lack of respect is not what a good businessman should have.

If you are too busy to answer emails, hire an assistant. If you have one, fire them for not doing their job.

I know that I will never do business with you. I don't have the patience or the temperament for a condescending know it all.

 

[DavidBeard]

Wow......another arrogant vendor shoots themselves in the foot over something that could've easily been fixed.

Count myself as someone that would not do business with Perfect Predators as a result of how they have handled this situation. And I will refer any friends of mine to this thread should they ask me about doing business with Perfect Predators.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

and post post to the facebook capture is from Friday when Chris started contacting you after giving Amanda the run around for over 3 weeks. You never said "I sold your three, or I oversold them and have some other to get ready. You said every time they were fed and will ship next week. You never said "I have to grow some more up".

Maybe you shouldn't assume that he oversold them? With Manny I could easily see him having several trios of het pieds for this particular sale.

I don't believe that English is Manny's first language. That being said, I do think he should have tried harder to keep clear communication going with the buyer.

That also being said, I don't think I'll ever do business with John Willis, because he has shown himself to be rather vengeful over a fairly small transaction that he has already received a refund for.

Yes, Manny should have been better with communication. However, he sent you a refund. Not the best customer service, but hardly the type of "bad guy" to linger over.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

This is a big part of my whole point, which some people seem to be trying very hard to minimize. No matter how you look at this thing, PP has gleefully lied. I don't particularly agree with the idea that seller's degree of guilt should be qualified by anything that buyer/OP did. That's what I'm arguing; the idea that "yeah the seller lied, but the buyer should have...".

Who's to say why he wanted this group of snakes so badly. Hell, I don't even understand the fascination with pet rocks, period. However, the onus was on the seller to follow through, which he failed to do on numerous occasions. He's presented himself as someone who can't be explicitly trusted, and I simply think that too much emphasis is being placed on the buyer's actions, which were based on false pretenses presented by the seller. That's what I believe it all comes down to. Had the seller chosen to be completely forthright, at any point in the process, it's very likely that this situation could have been resolved privately, if not amicably. Instead, he chose to cover lies with more lies.

A purely objective and unbiased analysis, I'm sure.

I think it's pretty inappropriate to say that PP "gleefully lied" about this. It's fairly obvious to me that this was a simple case of miscommunication.

Partially because Manny is so busy, and partially because (I am assuming based on my experience with him) English is not his first language. This leads to misunderstands. I do believe Manny was in the wrong here, to a point. After that it's just the buyer being vengeful and petty about a trio of snakes that he could easily purchase elsewhere with his refund.

This post is also to address you mocking his grammar. It's not relevant to the thread and it's certainly not appropriate in a forum where many people aren't even native English speakers. I can understand taking the OP's side (and I also sympathize with him), but it's not appropriate to paint Manny with such a wide tar brush when his only crime is poor communication.

 

[Fangthane]

Maybe you shouldn't assume that he oversold them? With Manny I could easily see him having several trios of het pieds for this particular sale.

Maybe you shouldn't assume that the buyer was making that assumption? It seems fairly clear that he's making the argument that the seller didn't give anything even remotely close to justifiable reason to postpone shipping the snakes.

I don't believe that English is Manny's first language. That being said, I do think he should have tried harder to keep clear communication going with the buyer.

I think it'd be much closer to the mark to say something like: "I do think he should have tried harder to keep honest communication going with the buyer".

That also being said, I don't think I'll ever do business with John Willis, because he has shown himself to be rather vengeful over a fairly small transaction that he has already received a refund for.


Yes, Manny should have been better with communication. However, he sent you a refund. Not the best customer service, but hardly the type of "bad guy" to linger over.

I don't see how the dollar amount figures into anything. Nearly $400 isn't exactly chump-change to many of us, however, the seller would be just as wrong, whether the sale was $10 or $1000.

You're free to boycott the buyer. I don't even begin to grasp your logic, but you're welcome to it. With the details of the actual sale, as well as the seller's tone when he decided to respond to this thread, I can certainly understand any "vengeful" feelings that the buyer may have. At no point do I recall seeing Manny accept responsibility for anything.

Going out of one's way to make others aware of shady business practices isn't exactly a new concept. That's part of what the BOI is about. If the buyer feels the need to spread the word about someone that jerked him around, I can hardly hold that against him.

I think it's pretty inappropriate to say that PP "gleefully lied" about this. It's fairly obvious to me that this was a simple case of miscommunication.

Context clues strongly imply otherwise, but something tells me that you're only interested in defending someone with whom you've admittedly had previous dealings.

(I am assuming based on my experience with him)

I'm not even beginning to see what you're choosing to focus on. Out of your whole spiel, this line seems to be the most relevant. Bend any further backwards to justify his actions, and you may pull something.

This post is also to address you mocking his grammar. It's not relevant to the thread and it's certainly not appropriate in a forum where many people aren't even native English speakers. I can understand taking the OP's side (and I also sympathize with him), but it's not appropriate to paint Manny with such a wide tar brush when his only crime is poor communication.

And his "apex knife in the drawer" comment was relevant? I think it was yet another example his knowing that he had no valid defense, and deciding to attack. I suppose his reactions are completely our fault for having the audacity to call him to task for (much more than) "poor communication"? At this point, it wouldn't surprise me to see you play that card.

 

[DavidBeard]

Why is it that the reptile hobby is so full of blind mice that will defend anybody, even in the face of glaring evidence? I just don't get it....

 

[Skanakis]

I read the first page partly 2nd and this last page. Miscommunication or lack of after a month is some poor poor excuse. Your a reptile breeder/seller. Its your business to get back to a person and be detailed with fed/unfed/waiting to be fed or dead or sold. Paid on Sept 20th and not shipped. I can understand a bad week. Or a stressful 2 weeks. As business being a seller or a buyer it shouldn't apply unless communicated. Boi doing its job again. Thank you.

 

[Kilzac]

Why is it that the reptile hobby is so full of blind mice that will defend anybody, even in the face of glaring evidence? I just don't get it....

Maybe they think they are going to get brownie points or a special deal in the future?

 

[Lucille]

here is the email sent 2 weeks after purchase when they finally decided to receive their order. Just so everyone knows they were not made to wait this long but decided to on their own, the last 2 weeks things did come up but just like they had reasons to delay i unfortunately ran into some of my own, whats good for the goose....

https://perfectpredators.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/refund/Good_Crazy.PNG

For the sake of argument, let's say there was an agreement to delay shipment. When that time comes, the critter should be shipped. Such a delay agreement does not entitle a seller to feel free to then take more time on his own absent a further agreement.

If you take payments from a buyer (just as an example) just because the buyer sent the payment in four parts, does that entitle the seller to send the lizard in four parts?

Also, as all have said, communication is important. Don't tell your buyer you will ship tomorrow if you aren't going to ship tomorrow. And don't sell a critter that isn't going to be ready to go for a month and tell your buyer when asked that it will be shipped in a few days.

How a seller takes care of challenges says a lot about him. If you've done wrong, admit it, apologize, do something for your buyer to make up for it.
From one of the comments it appears that the seller may just be getting into selling bps. Bps have their own set of problems and someone who is new to selling them may have a learning curve.

The buyer appears to be established and experienced. Had an apology and a confession of newness been forthcoming, it is possible that the seller might have gotten patience and maybe even advice.
But the buyer was treated like a mark, told again and again that the critter would be shipped, and I can see how he might feel after that treatment.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

Maybe you shouldn't assume that the buyer was making that assumption? It seems fairly clear that he's making the argument that the seller didn't give anything even remotely close to justifiable reason to postpone shipping the snakes.

He posted that he believed this was what happened several times.

I think it'd be much closer to the mark to say something like: "I do think he should have tried harder to keep honest communication going with the buyer".

Why are you so bent on declaring PP a liar? There is no EVIDENCE that shows him lying.

I don't see how the dollar amount figures into anything. Nearly $400 isn't exactly chump-change to many of us, however, the seller would be just as wrong, whether the sale was $10 or $1000.

I never said the seller was not wrong. However, the buyer received a refund. He was offered a refund several times. He chose to continue complaining.

You're free to boycott the buyer. I don't even begin to grasp your logic, but you're welcome to it. With the details of the actual sale, as well as the seller's tone when he decided to respond to this thread, I can certainly understand any "vengeful" feelings that the buyer may have. At no point do I recall seeing Manny accept responsibility for anything.

Just because Manny didn't give you the apology you wanted to see, doesn't mean that he's a bad guy. Go look at the Andrew Potts thread again if you need a reminder of what an actual bad guy looks like.

Going out of one's way to make others aware of shady business practices isn't exactly a new concept. That's part of what the BOI is about. If the buyer feels the need to spread the word about someone that jerked him around, I can hardly hold that against him.

How is it "shady" for the seller to want to hang on to the ball pythons until he feels they are ready to ship? Yes, he should have said they weren't ready in the ad. But when the buyer didn't want to wait, he offered him his money back. Several times. It's not "shady" to do that.

Context clues strongly imply otherwise, but something tells me that you're only interested in defending someone with whom you've admittedly had previous dealings.

I don't know why you're so full of vitriol in this thread, but I have NOT had previous dealings with him. I have some of his facebook pages liked, and I have watched him interact with people. Please stop making ASSumptions about the seller, or about me.

I'm not even beginning to see what you're choosing to focus on. Out of your whole spiel, this line seems to be the most relevant. Bend any further backwards to justify his actions, and you may pull something.

I could say the same about you. Bend any further to try and condemn the seller, and you may fall into the mud you're trying to splatter him with.

And his "apex knife in the drawer" comment was relevant? I think it was yet another example his knowing that he had no valid defense, and deciding to attack. I suppose his reactions are completely our fault for having the audacity to call him to task for (much more than) "poor communication"? At this point, it wouldn't surprise me to see you play that card.

Please stop trying to put words into my mouth. I am not trying to defend the seller against anything but your ridiculous attacks. I said the seller was in the wrong, but you are trying to make him sound like a criminal of the worst sort, and that is undeserved.

I don't know what you have against Manny that causes you to attack him so, but I am not friends with him, and the only time I spoke with him was when I asked a question about a boa.

Clearly any neutral party that tries to step in is going to be attacked. Again, I'm not sure what you have against this guy that makes you so vehement. Maybe take a chill pill?

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

Maybe they think they are going to get brownie points or a special deal in the future?

Manny's animals are too rich for my blood, and I'm actually getting out of the boa business. Maybe don't assume things about people just because they don't want to see someone crucified over bad customer service?

 

[DavidBeard]

Manny's animals are too rich for my blood, and I'm actually getting out of the boa business. Maybe don't assume things about people just because they don't want to see someone crucified over bad customer service?

I fail to see why someone shouldn't be crucified over bad customer service.....

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

I fail to see why someone shouldn't be crucified over bad customer service.....

I look at all the other threads in here, where animals are dead, thousands of dollars are stolen, and other horrible things, and here we have a thread where the buyer has received their refund, but it just pissed they didn't get the snakes. And Manny didn't need to be threatened or cajoled to return the money, he did it because he didn't want to deal with them anymore.

In comparison to the other "bad guys" lurking around, Manny is hardly a criminal here.

 

[Kilzac]

Sara

To start I do believe it is not allowed to brig others BOI posts into this threa unless they are linked to each other. Atleast in my terms a "bad guy" isn't just a person that steals thousands of dollars. In my opinion this bad guy thread is completely appropriate to be here and for warn potential customers of his business ethics.

I'm having trouble seeing what makes you so blind to the obvious evidence in front of you and why you are defending Manuel so fiercely. And to just clear this up, speaking a different language doesn't give you the right to conduct poor communication and business ethics.

 

[John Willis SOE]

He told us over and over how well the snakes fed. I don't see why its keeps being brought up that he wanted to hold them longer to make sure they fed. And if that's the case why wasn't it said. His e-mails are posted showing that is not the case.

I was ran around for 4 plus weeks. He ignored us than acted a fool so yes, now I will go out of my way to tell people all about it. He could have said one of a hundred different things to have made this different. He could have called like he said he would yesterday . That call never came. This thread was posted hours after than call came and with his reply he is lit a fire under me. I have plenty of resources and time.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

He told us over and over how well the snakes fed. I don't see why its keeps being brought up that he wanted to hold them longer to make sure they fed. And if that's the case why wasn't it said. His e-mails are posted showing that is not the case.

I was ran around for 4 plus weeks. He ignored us than acted a fool so yes, now I will go out of my way to tell people all about it. He could have said one of a hundred different things to have made this different. He could have called like he said he would yesterday . That call never came. This thread was posted hours after than call came and with his reply he is lit a fire under me. I have plenty of resources and time.

Classic noob rant......

 

[Fangthane]

He posted that he believed this was what happened several times.

I believe he presented that as a possible scenario. And had that been the case, had your buddy, Manny, simply been honest and forthright about it, the simple act of coming clean would have meant something to him. And at least he could have made his decisions based on facts, and not lies, evasions and excuses.

Why are you so bent on declaring PP a liar? There is no EVIDENCE that shows him lying.

Why are you so bent on ignoring the painfully obvious? I think it makes you look nearly as bad as this seller, that you'd try to hard to excuse him.

8:02pm
Perfect Predators

no, some have not fed and some have just fed.

here are thee-mails between Amanda and perfect predators:

>>>>
>>>> On 10/5/12 4:47 PM, "Info @ Perfect Predators, Inc."
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ship Monday, they ate meal way too big for their size. But they
>>>>>handled it awesome...
>>>>>
>>>>> Highest regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Manny J. Frade
>>>>> efax: 305 328 9704
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone

Shipment wasn't made, so that's a LIE.

>>>>> On Oct 5, 2012, at 5:34 PM, Amanda Willis
>>>>><[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We never got a shipment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/3/12 10:20 AM, "Info @ Perfect Predators, Inc."
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did not ship yesterday, they were too stuffed from recent meals,
>>>>>>> im thinking today but more than likely tomorrow. I sent an email
>>>>>>> yesterday but we had some Internet issues and the message was
>>>>>>> stuck in the outbox till I just noticed it..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Highest regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Manny J. Frade
>>>>>>> efax: 305 328 9704
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone

As no shipment was made, that's a LIE. Also, it directly contradicts the above-quoted statement that some of them haven't fed, and discredits any idea that they weren't already established feeders.

>>>>>>> On Oct 2, 2012, at 11:21 AM, Amanda Willis
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just spoke to you on the phone. Please ship our trio of het
>>>>>>>> pied balls to be delivered on Wednesday to:

I WILL NOT SHIP ANIMALS UNTIL I FEEL THEY ARE GOOD TO SHIP. SIMPLE.

If the snakes weren't ready to ship when the ad was posted, then the ad, itself, is a lie, since it didn't mention any issues with their feeding habits.

I never said the seller was not wrong. However, the buyer received a refund. He was offered a refund several times. He chose to continue complaining.

Having enough sense to eventually want to wash his yellowed sheets, doesn't negate the fact that he pissed the bed, to begin with.

Just because Manny didn't give you the apology you wanted to see, doesn't mean that he's a bad guy. Go look at the Andrew Potts thread again if you need a reminder of what an actual bad guy looks like.

A murderer is the only "actual" criminal? There can't be any transgressions which, though less drastic, are no less wrong? What a foolish idea.

The fact that he hid behind lies, excuses, and evasions, makes him a bad guy. The lack of accepting the responsibility for his own mistakes just means that, yet again, he learned nothing from all of this.

How is it "shady" for the seller to want to hang on to the ball pythons until he feels they are ready to ship? Yes, he should have said they weren't ready in the ad. But when the buyer didn't want to wait, he offered him his money back. Several times. It's not "shady" to do that.

Regarding the text in bold, you just pointed out a lie. A lie of omission is no less deceitful or inexcusable.

You'd have to live in some fantasy world, where the seller's words can be taken at face value, to even begin to want to make such statements. You've clearly shown a blithe willingness to dwell in such a twisted realm. Me, I prefer the real world.

I don't know why you're so full of vitriol in this thread, but I have NOT had previous dealings with him. I have some of his facebook pages liked, and I have watched him interact with people. Please stop making ASSumptions about the seller, or about me.

Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully:

(I am assuming based on my experience with him)

"Experience" implies interaction just as easily as it does observation. Either way, you've chosen to associate yourself with him, albeit in an indirect capacity. An association which is clearly clouding your views. To choose to laud his interactions with people, you'd have to choose to ignore the interactions which took place on this website. Selective myopia.

I could say the same about you. Bend any further to try and condemn the seller, and you may fall into the mud you're trying to splatter him with.

You could, but it'd just be another example of you being mistaken. There's no contortion required to see things from my vantage point; only a willingness to acknowledge what's plainly visible, and a lack of any inexplicable interest in wanting to try to explain it away.

Please stop trying to put words into my mouth. I am not trying to defend the seller against anything but your ridiculous attacks. I said the seller was in the wrong, but you are trying to make him sound like a criminal of the worst sort, and that is undeserved.

Incorrect. You're defending him against his own culpability for the lies he told, and the transaction he ruined, by his own conscious choices and actions.

I don't know what you have against Manny that causes you to attack him so, but I am not friends with him, and the only time I spoke with him was when I asked a question about a boa.

"Attack" is something I can choose to do reasonably well. When I make that choice, there's little doubt as to whether or not I've gone on the offensive. I've simply been pointing out the obvious.

Clearly any neutral party that tries to step in is going to be attacked. Again, I'm not sure what you have against this guy that makes you so vehement. Maybe take a chill pill?

If your posts have any basis in neutrality, I couldn't even begin to imagine what your biased opinion would look like. While we're recommending medications, might I suggest some Clozaril, or maybe some Seroquel? Both antipsychotics have shown positive results, when given to those who are out of touch with reality. (See, that was more akin to an "attack", albeit retaliatory. Notice the difference?)

 

[John Willis SOE]

Classic noob rant......

Ya, noob. That's me. Only been doing this since before there was an internet. Back when Bob Aplegate mailed out white paper price lists and Steven T Osborns Mother was my 5th grade teacher. Have $43,000 out just this quarter. Ya I'm a noob.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Ya, noob. That's me. Only been doing this since before there was an internet. Back when Bob Aplegate mailed out white paper price lists and Steven T Osborns Mother was my 5th grade teacher. Have $43,000 out just this quarter. Ya I'm a noob.

^^ Totally... I smell ya! (Drops two name's in the biz. Misspelled mind us all. Ya, I bet you are huge! So how big is it REALLY...? 2, 3, or the infamous 4"?