Inquiry USARK/Andrew Wyatt, What's the story?

[meowmeowkazoo]

Andrew Wyatt of Herp Alliance has yet to return the expensive equipment he stole from its rightful owner, USARK. This is expensive material that is used to help our efforts against unjust legislation. Contributors to USARK paid for this equipment with their hard earned donations to USARK. Help us put pressure on Andrew Wyatt to do the right thing and return this property to its rightful owners. That would be us little people, in the form of USARK. Don't let him get away with this theft. Act now. Go to the Herp Nation face book page and demand the return of our property.

You mean the Herp Alliance facebook page?

 

[Ken Foose]

Yes please

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

Any word on whether Andrew has returned the stolen equipment?

 

[Ken Foose]

No, he has not. But something interesting today. The Herp Alliance just issued a "red alert" to save reptile shows in Nevada. Funny, I was at the hearing on Tuesday and saw no one from Herp Alliance there in any capacity. This bill was pretty much decided last Tuesday, and the red alert is just a smoke screen to make it look like Wyatt actually did something. In reality he did nothing at all. The bill has been watered down and kicked back to county control, just as it always has been. The whole thing is moot. Waste of time. But I promise you that Wyatt is going to take credit for "saving" herp shows in Nevada. Just watch. Hope he hurts himself while he's patting himself on the back. I sure hope no one falls for his crap.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

No, he has not. But something interesting today. The Herp Alliance just issued a "red alert" to save reptile shows in Nevada. Funny, I was at the hearing on Tuesday and saw no one from Herp Alliance there in any capacity. This bill was pretty much decided last Tuesday, and the red alert is just a smoke screen to make it look like Wyatt actually did something. In reality he did nothing at all. The bill has been watered down and kicked back to county control, just as it always has been. The whole thing is moot. Waste of time. But I promise you that Wyatt is going to take credit for "saving" herp shows in Nevada. Just watch. Hope he hurts himself while he's patting himself on the back. I sure hope no one falls for his crap.

Did I not call this tactic last week Ken!

 

[sally-dog]

This is very sad and pathetic. I still have several people on Facebook sharing links and pics from their page who don't know any better.

 

[Ken Foose]

Just a quick update. AB246, the flea market bill, went as I said it would. It has been taken back to the county level, so nothing changes. No emergency here. I'll have an update of SB245, the exotics ban bill later today. It looks like it's been pulled by HSUS. They might have thrown in the towel.

 

[fangme]

to Fangme... This statement I copied from your home page is very very alarming and speaks volumes.

"So I started it, it hasn't taken off it hasn't made me rich but that's not what I'm concerned about if i only sell 5 items in a year and only make 15 dollars in a profit so be it. As long as that kid who wants that Burmese Python, Reticulated Python, Ball Python, Blood Python, Boa Constrictor, Chameleon, Alligator or whatever they can imagine gets what he wants I accomplished my Goal."

As long as that kid gets that burm,retic,boa,blood python or alligator you have accomplished your goal? yikes! your goal should be that kids don't get these things. and most chameleons are not great for kids.

Also this statement.
"All animals on this website are Captive Bred unless otherwise specified. Female animals will be labeled as such."

I see a ton of wildcaught stuff on your site that is not labeled as such.You should either label them as wildcaught or take this statemenet off your site.Short list of examples...white spot gecko,tokay,marbled,flying gecko,pygmy chameleon.These animals I know for a fact are not cb. if they are labeled wildcaught and I just don't see it than i apologize for my mistake here. but still i have a huge issue with anyone whos goal is to arm kids with retics,burms,crododillians etc.

The Pygmy chameleons were cb by myself from 2.6 adults I imported 9 months prior to the to the eggs being dropped the others were identified in the description as wc. Also why is it wrong to arm a kid with a retic burm or gator. A. a kid doesn't mean a child to means age doesn't dictate maturity or capabilities. Also to smear big snake dealers because pythons are sold on craigslist is ridiculous. I personally dislike 97% of all gecko breeders I've ever met but if someone wanted to go after the pet store type animal you could guarantee usark and zoomed wouldn't rest until they defeated the bill and they wouldn't settle for restrictions because that's where they make there money. But the thing is that myself and all large snake breeders would be fighting for your kind as well because its downright wrong.

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

The Pygmy chameleons were cb by myself from 2.6 adults I imported 9 months prior to the to the eggs being dropped the others were identified in the description as wc. Also why is it wrong to arm a kid with a retic burm or gator. A. a kid doesn't mean a child to means age doesn't dictate maturity or capabilities. Also to smear big snake dealers because pythons are sold on craigslist is ridiculous. I personally dislike 97% of all gecko breeders I've ever met but if someone wanted to go after the pet store type animal you could guarantee usark and zoomed wouldn't rest until they defeated the bill and they wouldn't settle for restrictions because that's where they make there money. But the thing is that myself and all large snake breeders would be fighting for your kind as well because its downright wrong.

My kind? You have no idea what my kind is.I have owned many big snakes,monitors and crocodilians in my life and i am friends with some of the most reputable large constrictor breeders on the planet.Have been for decades. "My kind" is under attack more than large constrictor breeders/hobbyists are. The problem is that noone is talking about it.Only big snakes. So put your money where your mouth is and start supporting "my kind" for a while by telling everyone about the petition for fish and whildlife to list EVERY species of amphibian on the planet as injurous wildlife under the LACEY ACT! That's right for over 2 years there has been a petition to push for all amphibian species in the whole world to be listed and suffer the same fate as burms,anacondas and rock pythons. No imports,no crossing state lines.

Your post almost isn't worth responding to. I will say this. your animals were not labeled wild caught. Eggs from wildcaught recent imports are not really cb.
And the fact you you would even ask what is wrong with arming a kid with a burm,retic or alligator is dispicable.

 

[Ken Foose]

Guys, we must protect ourselves and each other. It doesn't matter if you are a frog breeder or a Burmese python breeder. We are all in the same boat. The update I promised: Nevada bill SB245 was defeated, and we sent the HSUS packing. It's over. How did we pull it off? Simple, all animal people came together as one, and we moved forward together. Tiger people, ape people, herp people, all fighting as a solid unit. We had no weak links. We worked together, fought together and won together. I didn't allow Herp Alliance in to shave off the herp people from the fight, and even after the bill got watered down to exclude herps, we kept fighting. We had each others backs. All the way to the end. Now we need to repeat this effort on a local, state and federal level. Please support USARK and PIJAC. These two groups are there for us, fighting for our rights. They need all our support. They were here for us in Nevada, and I thank them for all their assistance. Stop fighting each other. Fight for each other. Don't fall for con men. Stay alert. Together we can do just about anything.
On a related note, the amphibian ban is looming. I would assume it will be a hot topic at the NRAAC conference in Washington DC this coming fall. If you have any stake in this at all, I advice you all attend. I'll be there.

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

Guys, we must protect ourselves and each other. It doesn't matter if you are a frog breeder or a Burmese python breeder. We are all in the same boat. The update I promised: Nevada bill SB245 was defeated, and we sent the HSUS packing. It's over. How did we pull it off? Simple, all animal people came together as one, and we moved forward together. Tiger people, ape people, herp people, all fighting as a solid unit. We had no weak links. We worked together, fought together and won together. I didn't allow Herp Alliance in to shave off the herp people from the fight, and even after the bill got watered down to exclude herps, we kept fighting. We had each others backs. All the way to the end. Now we need to repeat this effort on a local, state and federal level. Please support USARK and PIJAC. These two groups are there for us, fighting for our rights. They need all our support. They were here for us in Nevada, and I thank them for all their assistance. Stop fighting each other. Fight for each other. Don't fall for con men. Stay alert. Together we can do just about anything.
On a related note, the amphibian ban is looming. I would assume it will be a hot topic at the NRAAC conference in Washington DC this coming fall. If you have any stake in this at all, I advice you all attend. I'll be there.

I typically would agree 100%. However the attitude of "whats wrong with arming a kid with a crocodilian or large constrictor" is a systemic problem in that sector of the hobby. I personally am not on the side of anyone who feels that way. Its that cavalier attitude and noone speaking out against it that has gotten us into the situation we are in and gives ammo to our enemies.

 

[Ken Foose]

I typically would agree 100%. However the attitude of "whats wrong with arming a kid with a crocodilian or large constrictor" is a systemic problem in that sector of the hobby. I personally am not on the side of anyone who feels that way. Its that cavalier attitude and noone speaking out against it that has gotten us into the situation we are in and gives ammo to our enemies.

Jay, I agree with you 100%. However, I must point out that this cavalier attitude is not shared by the majority of responsible animal dealers/breeders out there. The best thing to do is try to enable the market to remove the ones that are irresponsible. Short of just shooting them, I don't have any other answers for you. However, if you are going to allow the few bad apples to keep you from cooperating with us for the common good, well, we are just weaker without you.

 

[Wilomn]

Jay, how do you know what kid is the wrong kid, what animal the wrong animal, from whence this wisdom over your fellow keeper?

I had a burm when I was about 15. 2 of them. And a couple of boas. And a caiman or three. I know a LOT of other herpers that have similar tales of their youths.

Yup, you are correct, some should simply not have snakes, pets for that matter, at all. I'm not the guy to say who get what UNLESS you're buying from me. I don't see a logical reasonable alternative. Do you?

 

[AbsoluteApril]

stick to the topic of USARK please so this thread doesn't get derailed.

 

[deadliesthatch]

I am with Mr. Foose on this one. Support each others efforts and those of USARK and PIJAC because, well, there is not a delicate way to put this..... Andrew Wyatt fooled me once so shame on him. Won't be a second time. Our enemies are looking to pick us off one at a time till they reach zero and that is a fact.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

I have been seeing far fewer USHA links getting shared on Facebook. Either because I'm finally getting through to people, or because they have blocked me for harassing them over what links they share.

I'm hoping it's the former, because Andrew has clearly been very hard at work trying to promote his new business via Facebook.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

I have been seeing far fewer USHA links getting shared on Facebook. Either because I'm finally getting through to people, or because they have blocked me for harassing them over what links they share.

I'm hoping it's the former, because Andrew has clearly been very hard at work trying to promote his new business via Facebook.

Because thats all he has left, and his website to get more pocket money. How many shows can you think of that welcome him there.

 

[meowmeowkazoo]

Because thats all he has left, and his website to get more pocket money. How many shows can you think of that welcome him there.

It's unfortunate, because at this time Facebook reaches far more people than reptile expos do, I think. I spend a good deal of time linking people back to this thread, but he still has many innocent reptile owners following him that just don't know any better. Nowhere near the 10,000 he claims to have from Mexico though.

 

[Ken Foose]

The bill in Illinois that would have made it legal to keep large constrictors and other large reptiles, but would have at the same time effectively banned all turtles, died in the legislature. I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. On one hand, it would have been nice to have it legal to keep large reptiles there. On the other hand, it would have banned the most commonly kept pet reptile in the world, turtles and tortoises. I'm not going to jump into the debate. I'm just saying ...

Something I will comment on though is this: According to Andrew Wyatt, he sent hundreds of faxes and hand delivered hundreds of letters to the capital. It appears all for naught. Seems Herp Alliance doesn't have much influence, even in their own home state. Here's a direct quote from Wyatt about his defeat:

The Herptile Code was the first bill from 2013 that would have provided a tangible improvement to reptile legislation. Unfortunately, amid opposition from the powerful animal rights industry and the pet industry, the House did not carry the votes.

The animal rights industry and the PET INDUSTRY. He has decided to lump these groups together? Man, you've got to be kidding me. It is the pet industry that powers us. Without the pet industry there'd be no pets. And he has the nerve to lump AR and pet owners together? What a piece of work.

Anyone who supports Herp alliance and Andrew Wyatt after this comment should be ashamed, and deserves what they get. How can anyone back a group and a man that has such a warped view of the industry he supposedly wants to represent. He's clueless.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Something I will comment on though is this: According to Andrew Wyatt, he sent hundreds of faxes and hand delivered hundreds of letters to the capital. It appears all for naught.

I found that all quite laughable. A whole 118 faxes and almost 300 letters, how many thousands were USARK able to send a few years ago? Anyways, screenshot below from the mailing that went out.

I'm still on their mailing list, well, actually, I never signed up for it, my contact info was stolen from USARK apparently.

(further amusement at their mislabled email header of "ILLINOIS LIFTS BAN ON LARGE CONSTRICTORS!" but then inside "Illinois Legislature Fails to Lift Ban on Large Constrictors")