• Responding to email notices you receive.
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  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Bad Guy Dillon and Rick Wascher, www.safedartfrogs.com

Mike2014 said:
Now to be in a hobby for 2 years...and nobody will sell them any animals knowing who they are. It would be pretty hard to breed to the point of 6,000 frogs. Also hard to believe this because they couldn't fill an order for 10 frogs that I called and asked for.
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Did you order those frogs before or after you decided you didn't like their practices/breeding habits.
 
nickolasanastasiou said:
Is your primary complaint that they are inaccurately labeled or is your primary complaint that they are crosses?

If they are inaccurately labeled, then that is valid as a gap in seller ethics.

If they are accurately labeled as crosses, then there is no gap in seller ethics.

They are simply offering a product that is not for you as a prospective buyer. Unless they are repatriating them into wild frog populations people are wishing to conserve, it does not actually matter. If it does reduce collection pres:iagree:sure, that may serve to provide an atypical avenue for conservation. It does not prevent you from doing as much work as you might like to in order for you to support your conservation-based causes.

There is room for many opinions and many keeping arrangements and any person solely in one camp need not feel pressured to yield to the other and can respectfully disagree if they are willing to commit to that kind of consideration for the existence of multiple stances and perspectives. I personally keep pure animals, intergrades, and hybrids. There is no force that mandates it must be all of one practice or all of another in exclusion. We lose a bit more of what we have every day. Some folks try to minimize loss as their primary objective. Some folks try to create gain as their primary objective. Some folks have and work towards both objectives without conflict. There is room for all if all let it have room.
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:iagree: He has avoided that question since post #10.
 
Mike2014 said:
This father and son team who are selling poison dart frogs are now mixing locales of dendrobates. They are taking our purebred animals that we have all worked so hard to keep pure and creating mutts. .
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I know a nice lady who raises and shows German Shepherds and her dogs are beautiful. One of my dogs 'Tonka' is a German Shepherd mutt and is a wonderful dog. I respect her (she has funny show stories, the show process is more than what it seems on the outside) and she has no problem with my mutts. (I have several dogs, two appear to be pure bred, the rest are mutts, all are loved).

I'm with the others who have said that as long as this business is selling frogs honestly and not misrepresenting them, there isn't a problem. The Waschers certainly aren't going to stop those who want to only breed frogs from one locale together, just like I would not dream of stopping my friend from raising and showing her beautiful German Shepherds.

Mike2014 said:
With that said, some of the proceeds of each GENESIS frog we sell will also go towards funding research projects in the frogs’ native rainforest habitat, in hopes of discovering more about these amazing creatures, while further evidencing the dwindling numbers of frogs in the wild and underscoring the need for captive bred designer frogs as the responsible alternative to wild caught animals.
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Your philosophy appears to differ from the Wascher's, and they feel that their captive bred sales are fulfilling a buying niche. There must be a demand, if they had no sales, the company would fold. And, they say they are donating money for research, if true, I certainly see that as a responsible action.
 
I wanna know who "we" happens to be.

In your first post, you mentioned that "we" happened to be upset, and wasn't going to rest any longer until this business's practices were revealed! You mentioned starting this thread as the messenger for "we".

In all the glory and rules pertaining to this wonderful BOI (that I love dearly) please tell me who "we" happens to be, please.

I cannot imagine you stand messenger for all dendrobates enthusiasts the world over.
 
Magic said:
I wanna know who "we" happens to be.

In your first post, you mentioned that "we" happened to be upset, and wasn't going to rest any longer until this business's practices were revealed! You mentioned starting this thread as the messenger for "we".

In all the glory and rules pertaining to this wonderful BOI (that I love dearly) please tell me who "we" happens to be, please.

I cannot imagine you stand messenger for all dendrobates enthusiasts the world over.
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According to post #6, the "we" people would be chiming in after 20 minutes.
 
I'd like to know why the OP ordered frogs from a company he bashes. No transaction. No proven scam. Nobody chiming in with a bad experience. Bad guy thread? Alrighty then. Boop boop!
 
Mike2014 said:
Read through 159 pages and you will then know all. Please stop questioning why I posted this thread. It is very obvious the reasons.
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If you are unable to summarize your beef and why you initiated a Bad Guy thread in a few sentences, I am not, and no one else should be, expected to wade through 159 pages to find out.

Asking that I stop questioning is fruitless, if you are unable to post a coherent case here, then as far as I'm concerned, there is no case against the Waschers, it is simply a matter of differing philosophies between you and them.
 
Lucille said:
Sorry, no. The BOI is a business site and the posts are permanent. Often, other sites have the ability to remove posts, and one is not sure who is saying what, since real names are not required.
If you have a beef with them and thought it was bad enough to bring here, bring it here.
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So what is your beef, Mike?
 
Btw...here, at least, 'slam dunk' threads don't generally wind up in the 159-page category. Threads take left turns and right turns, but 159 pages would indicate an active, passionate debate with several people on each side of the argument.

For all we know, Mike, your "we" isn't even a majority.
 
Mike2014 said:
Read through 159 pages and you will then know all. Please stop questioning why I posted this thread. It is very obvious the reasons.
Click to expand...

We're not chickens with our heads cut off. Answer the questions here, or go back to your kiddie forums where your whining will be greeted with open arms. Why did you order frogs from a company who's practices or so beneath you?
 
I actually went to check out one of the links, and decided to read the first and last pages. On the first page someone saying he was Papa Wascher, Dillon's Dad, described how this was a family endeavor and the description sounded fun and heartwarming. Then there were some squawks and criticisms and some positive notes as well.

Then (HA!) on the last page, one of the Mods locked the thread saying there was TMI, and expecting someone to read through all the posts would confuse them more as more info was added.
If the Mods on that forum locked the thread because it was getting too confusing, I hardly think it was good advice for Mike to direct people over there and make the thread part of his flagship argument for whatever beef (still unknown) he has with this nice family.
 
Mike you said you did not get a order filled.. So saying the issue is about what kind of animals they sell, quality.. or heck hybrids.. is out the door.. unless you got a animal mislabeled, or of poor quality..

Sorry.. do you have a specific claim? or just a complaint that they did not do business with you... that does not belong in the BOI..
 
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