Bad Guy Underground Reptiles Stay away!!

[MADOGRE]

If they are going to charge more for a female then a male, they better know how to properly sex them or its clear false advertising!

 

[MADOGRE]

I picked up some golden Geckos from them a few years back, paid $5 extra bucks each for females, they were way to small to be put with my big male, so after 6 months they finally where the right size and weight, and I had 3 males..... i did not bother contacting them because it had been so long and I did not even check, so was in-part my fault and I sold them for about what I paid for them so not to big a deal, but sounds like its an ongoing problem.

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

I've heard that someone sued Ryan and got him on Judge. LOL I would love too that episode

It's true they were on judge judy over a consignment. Judge Judy told him he was a crook and a hustler. i watched it. when they interviewed Rian he actually threatened the person suing him. Said he would have liked to handle it on the street like men. Heck of a guy. he owns his own church and is senior pastor. when will people realize this idiot is a crook,a hustler and a punk. Hypocrite christian? or full blown crooked hustler? the latter. here is some nice material to ponder. FYI i am not a christian nor do i pretend to be. but people like this are a big reason why i am turned off on the whole thing. do some digging around there is plenty more than these little treats on the net.

http://calvarychapeldb.org/personnel/rian-gittman/

http://fightland.vice.com/blog/a-different-take-on-the-prince-of-peace

http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/1999-02-04/news/cold-blooded-smuggling/5/

 

[Paqkleader]

Not sure why anyone still wastes time buying animals from them

 

[Lucille]

http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/1999-02-04/news/cold-blooded-smuggling/5/

From the article, above:

" I wake up in the morning and ask God what he has planned for me."

I'm thinking this and other recent threads are perhaps a sign that He does not want to to hide behind your TOS and instead wants to you to give buyers real value for their hard earned money, Rian.
That restocking fee recently? You know that wasn't right. And the $20 geckoes, you know you should send two more.

Are you a man of God, or are you just talking the talk but not walking the walk?

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

Oh i love it. I got multiple phonecalls from Rian Gittman today. Threatening me physically. haha Bless his little heart

 

[RyanB]

If this situation is anyone's fault it is mine and mine alone. For those that know me, they know that my character and integrity is top notch, regardless of how you feel about the company I work for. I was the one who told the customer that after 3 WEEKS without any notification and proper documentation I could not replace the animal and cover shipping. I'm hoping regardless of how you personally feel about this situation that one would consider things objectively. The buyer purchased the geckos and waited 3 WEEKS to notify us of any issues. When I requested photos I received a photo of a single male gecko, which was part of her order anyways. I never received any photo of a second male or the animal that died, despite requesting photos. Even if she had sent everything I needed, it is still being overlooked that she waited 3 weeks. Melanie said she has kept geckos for 10 years and panthers for 3. How can I verify at this point that the animal was even the one I sent, especially since she claims to have other geckos. I, to avoid issue, simply took her word and tried to work with her. Therefore I offered her a free panther on her next order, without any proper documentation, or she could use the value of the panther toward something else. I offered this to her without even approval from the owner. Again we are not talking about a day or two, we are talking 3 weeks without evidence and prior notification. Almost all companies I have checked require notification of an issue within 24 hours, some less. Since others have also brought up the other thread we have from last week please allow me to explain that since the decision was also mine. Rich purchased animals, under no manipulation, and fully aware of our terms of service which clearly states no refunds on orders or deposits. Though some may assume no work could happen in a 2-3 hour expanse of time, I will explain how wrong that assumption is. When an order is placed and animals are marked sold, and several were, notifications are automatically sent through an inventory system we have to remove ads. We post ads on our website, fauna, kingsnake, and the reptile report. So in essence one animal is posted 4 times. Our ads are not basic text as can be seen. From the time it takes to take pictures, edit, collect data and input info it takes two people about two hours per animal. It only takes about 5-10 minutes to locate and delete these ads. With Rich's order several ads were deleted. I also sent an email to remove the animals from our wholesale list. Also though Rich only waited a few hours to notify us he did not notify the shop because we were closed. He notified Drew via text message. This means all the ads were removed stayed down during the evening meaning we lost potential sales. I also tried to reach out to Rich after I received the chargeback and was notified of the BOI. The reason I waited was my meeting with him at the WPB Repticon indicated to me there was no problem and that he accepted the credit. Keep in mind his order was from August I believe. When I did reach out to him we settled that he would cover the $35 chargeback fee plus $15 which does not come close to even covering the man hours to repost ads. I then got the chargeback fee lowered to $20 and passed the difference on to him as well. He agreed and then changed his mind once again and we never heard from him since. Rich simply posted and ran just to hurt us because he did not want to take responsibility as a businessman for his decision. Again he knew our terms, knew we never hold animals without payment, and no one deceived him. I don't expect everyone to like me or the company I work for all I ask is that you objectively consider if I did anything wrong. There are so many actual scammers and thieves out their it seems a little harsh to label someone a bad guy for keeping to their TOS and yet still working with people beyond them to try and keep everyone happy. As far as the personal attacks from Jay and calling people punks. The reality is he is a bitter nasty man who wrote fowl things to me and threatened us simply because we no longer buy from him. 4 years ago at the Daytona expo he agreed to sell us axolotls that we would sell at our table. He had been supplying us already for several months up to that point. He decided to then keep his axolotls to sell at his own table, which is fine, but then tried to sell us what he had leftover so he did not have to take them home. We thanked him but declined. Evidently he did not like that because when he got home he decided to stop selling to us, threatened us, made nasty remarks about our faith(which regardless of whether or not you agree with someones faith is a terrible thing to do), and swore at us vehemently. Which to be honest is fine I know the kind of person Jay is and I know he only feels comfortable doing that sort of thing from behind a keyboard. By the way no one threatened you Jay we asked you what your problem is at which point like the child you are you resorted to vulgarity and threats. In any case I appreciate the time those take to read through this and though I may rarely come on here to post going forward, due to time constraints, I welcome anyone's calls or questions. As I stated on here before there are several people who know me and will vouch for my character. I am reasonable and I love this hobby. For those saying we are in it for the money, I agree. This job pays my bills. The only people who are not in it for the money are those in rescues(most of the time) and those giving away animals at cost or less. To be in this hobby to make money doesn't mean you love it less, if anything I think it means you have dedicated your life to it all the more.

Ryan Borkan

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

and here comes the clean up crew. Complete B.S. being spewed here. Backpeddling, Good cop bad cop.

Maybe someone can explain why the man of gods go to reaction always is to threaten people physically? I for one am not intimidated in the least and what we see here is the minion taking the blame once again for the conman to throw people off the trail.

Underground Reptiles are scammers. Thieves conmen and are ALL about the money. All about poor character and ethics and ALL about ripping people off while B.S.ing people and portraying themselves as good little christians to try and make you feel better about the fact they are screwing you.

Disgusting and sinister

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

Ryan B is completely fabricating. Would you care for me to post all the emails? I have them. I dont threaten people.

You are lying about all the facts my friend I have the emails to prove it.

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

Ryan why dont you post the emails you are referring to? Please i would love the world to see them. you are flat out lying .

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

Moderators what is the appropriate thing for me to do here. post the emails in this thread or start a completely new one?
please advise

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Our ads are not basic text as can be seen. From the time it takes to take pictures, edit, collect data and input info it takes two people about two hours per animal.

There is being born, being born again, and being born yesterday.

I do not find myself fitting all three of those categories

That is an incredible degree of inefficiency. If that is not extreme hyperbole (and I am of the belief that it is indeed an exaggerated claim if I am to use generous wording here), you guys could do well by saving money via a lean six sigma project or another process waste reduction exercise.

 

[mfasano]

I was not even asked for pictures of the male. I sent that on my own to show he in fact did have a bulge. I was also no asked for a picture of the other male which I can take pictures and show I do have 2 males.
It does not matter if it was weeks after I contacted you, it was sexed improperly. If an animal is sold as a female and turns male it is the seller's fault.
I should not have to make another purchase just for you to correct your mistake.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

Ryan, when I said that underground is all about the money I don't think you understand exactly what I meant. Obviously everyone that breeds or buys and sells reptiles wants money. Me included. I don't deny it myself. But what I meant by that statement was the money takes priority over the health and lives of the animals and as long as the animal makes it to the customer alive and stays alive for I'm guessing 24 hours that means underground reptiles is off the hook. You guys are extremely protected under your TOS.
Ryan B. This is not a personal attack on you. I fully understand that you are an employee and your hands are tied.
I think that your owner should stop justifying all of the negative situations and stop hiding behind your TOS. Maybe you should re evaluate your system and just try to honestly change some things.

 

[mfasano]

Also as you say "Almost all companies I have checked require notification of an issue within 24 hours, some less."

That is true.....when it comes in sick or dead! Not sexed improperly as this gecko was

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

Ryan, when I said that underground is all about the money I don't think you understand exactly what I meant. Obviously everyone that breeds or buys and sells reptiles wants money. Me included. I don't deny it myself. But what I meant by that statement was the money takes priority over the health and lives of the animals and as long as the animal makes it to the customer alive and stays alive for I'm guessing 24 hours that means underground reptiles is off the hook. You guys are extremely protected under your TOS.
Ryan B. This is not a personal attack on you. I fully understand that you are an employee and your hands are tied.
I think that your owner should stop justifying all of the negative situations and stop hiding behind your TOS. Maybe you should re evaluate your system and just try to honestly change some things.

His hands are not tied he is part and participant in the con!!!!!!!! He is the good cop part of the good cop bad cop equation. Don't be fooled. I mean seriously Ryan tries to discredit me? Let us tally up the bad guy posts...
me ZERO! Underground? i have no idea i lost count. But there have been so many bad guy posts about underground reptiles that they should be getting a lifetime achievement award!

 

[mfasano]

Since you never asked for pictures of the second male, here you go. Pictures of the male I bought and the "Female" with a huge bulge.





This is the picture I sent Underground reptiles to show it was a male. They never asked for this picture but they were shown proof anyway.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Also as you say "Almost all companies I have checked require notification of an issue within 24 hours, some less."

That is true.....when it comes in sick or dead! Not sexed improperly as this gecko was

Some people (such as myself) have a time frame in our TOS regarding mis-sexed animals. So as not to take this off topic, here's a prior discussion about this topic if you're interested: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205313

Not that it's the best solution, but at least they did offer a credit. It sounds like that is all they will offer.

Good luck!

 

[Skinker]

I was the one who told the customer that after 3 WEEKS without any notification and proper documentation I could not replace the animal and cover shipping. I'm hoping regardless of how you personally feel about this situation that one would consider things objectively. The buyer purchased the geckos and waited 3 WEEKS to notify us of any issues.

Would you have covered shipping if you were immediately notified or is this an instance where you would not follow underground's terms regarding shipping?

* We cannot be held responsible for shipping charges incurred for upholding our guarantee; they are the responsibility of you, the buyer. We do not offer credits or refunds on shipping for replacement animals.

Even if she had sent everything I needed, it is still being overlooked that she waited 3 weeks. Melanie said she has kept geckos for 10 years and panthers for 3. How can I verify at this point that the animal was even the one I sent, especially since she claims to have other geckos.

I see on your TOS that you don't guarantee sex unless otherwise specified. Can you point to me in your TOS where there is a time limit attached to this guarantee when given? I only see that you require immediate notification with issues involving live arrival/health and a picture emailed within the hour; I'm not seeing any time restraints on a sex guarantees.

Since others have also brought up the other thread we have from last week please allow me to explain that since the decision was also mine. Rich purchased animals, under no manipulation, and fully aware of our terms of service which clearly states no refunds on orders or deposits. Though some may assume no work could happen in a 2-3 hour expanse of time, I will explain how wrong that assumption is. When an order is placed and animals are marked sold, and several were, notifications are automatically sent through an inventory system we have to remove ads. We post ads on our website, fauna, kingsnake, and the reptile report. So in essence one animal is posted 4 times. Our ads are not basic text as can be seen. From the time it takes to take pictures, edit, collect data and input info it takes two people about two hours per animal. It only takes about 5-10 minutes to locate and delete these ads. With Rich's order several ads were deleted. I also sent an email to remove the animals from our wholesale list.

I was under the impression from viewing underground's postings that most of the pictures used were stock photos. Even if the pictures in the ads were individually taken are you saying this person is responsible for time spent creating these ads? How are they responsible for all the "hours" of work put into posting the ads in the first place? The effort of retrieving and reposting a deleted ad is laughable. Stick with rigidly following your TOS no matter what. Much better argument - if infinitely lame in these situations. I would like to know how much less work, on underground's part, would have allowed you not to stick the 15% restocking fee on this customer.

 

[Jay Sommers Reptiles]

Ok Ryan and Rian. On monday morning i will be posting a full disclosure on what you have referenced today regarding your backing out of an order hand delivered to you to Daytona from Kansas City. I have all emails and they will be painting a slightly different picture than your version. I think you may have a few facts wrong haha. I am not going to spend my family weekend battling on the BOI but i assure you it will come monday. I also will be posting some photos of my cell phone with the multiple incoming calls today from MR. Gittman and we can discuss the threats and your attempts at intimidation(which don't work on me) See you talk about me doing all these things to you from behind a keyboard but in fact you are lying about the events. However you guys mainly the owner like to make threats to people from behind a phone from florida when i live in California. So again i will point out your hypocrisy. I do not tolerate threats and i am not intimidated by anyone. So you can take that up in person with me sometimes where there are no keyboards or phonse for either of us to hide behind. Until that time please stop acting like a high school kid and save your threat for me in person. I am easy to find at reptile shows worth going to like the reptile super show.

You guys are con artists,full of crap and the lowest of the low in this hobby/industry. Have a good weekend.