Bad Guy Tony121204/Anthony Pappas is a scammer

[Dravorak]

I don't feel like your here to help me anymore.

At this point, I think everyone here is happy that you got your refund and are satisfied.
But without the detective work being done, there is no guarantee that the same person won't continue to scam others who might not be so fortunate. I believe that is the overall goal, and the information you can provide will help with that.

 

[Robert Walker]

At this point, I think everyone here is happy that you got your refund and are satisfied.
But without the detective work being done, there is no guarantee that the same person won't continue to scam others who might not be so fortunate. I believe that is the overall goal, and the information you can provide will help with that.

100% Agreed, thanks Nick.

Sam, you and I might just need to respectfully agree to disagree on some issues and leave it at that.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

It wouldn't be the first time someone local to a problem seller, trader was able to apply the right type of pressure to get things going.

It has happened here many times.

What I understand took place was after Scott received the animals, he advertised them for sale. Good eyes noticed that the animals were the ones stolen from Sam. Scott finding out that he was in possession of the stolen property was able to get the funds sent back to Sam.

What trade took place or if the trade was even finished wasn't posted.

I'll assume all that is correct and Scott should be praised just like others here that went above and beyond to help someone.

If I found out that I purchased animals that were stolen from someone, I would be part of the solution too. I wouldn't want to be selling stolen property.

I know we can be cynical here but unless after digging and finding information that doesn't add up, I would be uncomfortable suggesting Scott did anything wrong.

Dennis, I feel you have it 100%.

I confirmed the animals via the photos from Scott that they were 100% sams animals from the ad originally posted in the PA reptile classifieds facebook page, I sent Sam the images and initially it was set up ( Sams Idea, Scott knows about this now) Since we did not know who he was or his connection with Anthony/Mike, hence the ruse. That I pretend to be interested in the animals to get photos of them.

Sam was going to go to the York PA show where scott was/the animals, show him pictures/photos of the animals in question once he saw them in person and go about trying to get them back in person. The only involvement I really had was setting that initial contact up so that sam could go to the show and see/get his animals.

Sam changed his mind about going to the show, so instead we ended up just telling Scott the entire deal ( Why i got the photos and how sam was going to go to the show to get the animals) and we told him that they were actually stolen animals at the time he was selling them. He was entirely willing to cooperate and Sam ended up getting his money for the animals.


Robert, You and I pmed as well and I would like you to clarify your information. I really do not understand where you are coming from about this. Why is sams information 2nd hand? He is posting about what he knows to be true. If you understand things differently, please explain it further just so its easier to follow, because this is really convoluted at the moment. I feel like this is why Sam is not really getting you either. What do you know about this situation that has not yet been posted/come to light?


As it stands, and with the consistency of Scotts messages back and forth to both me and Sam, I feel that he is just being dragged along due to these other two( Anthony/Mike) or three?(The woman/girl) folks involved and maybe he was not really aware of their goings on in full.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Alicia, I am more suspicious about this. There appears to be inconsistency in the texts and the last visit claim is outright not true.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Alicia, I am more suspicious about this. There appears to be inconsistency in the texts and the last visit claim is outright not true.

Eh, last visit claim could be forgotten. It was in august. Were there posts made that would say otherwise? I havent looked.

 

[Kristi23]

Eh, last visit claim could be forgotten. It was in august. Were there posts made that would say otherwise? I havent looked.

If I'm looking in the right place, he hasn't posted since last December. So I can understand mixing that up.

I am confused with the rest though. The posts about getting it from his friend and then changing who it was is weird to me. His messages are just a bit off.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Either way (going by the last visit or the last post), it has not been years, so that claim was not true.

 

[Fangthane]

Why is sams information 2nd hand? He is posting about what he knows to be true.

Actually, he's posting about what Scott has told him. Although Sam clearly believes it to be true, the simple fact that Scott said it isn't nearly enough to automatically make it so. Considering that he was clearly caught in possession of stolen property, it may be a bit harder for some of us to simply accept his word on how things went. As it stands, that's really all that we have - Scott's word. Not even any documentation of correspondences that supposedly took place between Scott and "Mike/Anthony" after Scott was confronted.

Robert seems to think that we're still awash in a sea of red herring, and I happen to think he's right. There are some few things we've come to know; a great deal of things we don't. I think that Scott's true involvement is still in the latter category. Hopefully, he's really the hero that some believe him to be. I'm just not seeing enough to come to that conclusion. Maybe he really did arrange for Sam to get paid out of nothing more than a desire to help a fellow herper. Of course, it's just as possible that there's a more sinister reason that involving him was exactly what was needed for Sam to be reimbursed.

As it stands, and with the consistency of Scotts messages back and forth to both me and Sam, I feel that he is just being dragged along due to these other two( Anthony/Mike) or three?(The woman/girl) folks involved and maybe he was not really aware of their goings on in full.

I see some clear inconsistencies just within the conversations that Sam posted here. First, Scott got the snakes from his buddy, "Anthony". It's hard not to assume that he meant his buddy was "Anthony Pappas." He later goes on to say that he had his buddy contact "Anthony Pappas." Now there are two people named Anthony directly involved in this? There's also a bit of a discrepancy over what supposedly happened with the albino female blood. First he said he didn't sell her. Next, he stated that he did sell her at the York Expo. Bit of a flip-flop right there. You could make the argument that the little slip-ups were simply the result of someone who's quickly scrambling to remember exactly how things really went. I'd have to counter that argument by suggesting that they could also just as easily be the mistakes of someone who's scrambling to come up with a believable story that's based entirely in

I'm sure many people would love to see a feel-good story playing out right before the holiday season. We'd love to think that people are fundamentally good and want to help their fellow man. Maybe that's what this story really does boil down to, but I have my doubts. Frankly, I think it's fairly odd that anyone would really be so quick to dismiss the possibility that Scott's our bad guy.

 

[Pasodama]

I am confused with the rest though. The posts about getting it from his friend and then changing who it was is weird to me. His messages are just a bit off.

That is where I am at as well.
It is quite possible that Scott F. is completely innocent and had absolutely no knowledge that those Blood Pythons were stolen.
However, what still bothers me is the following:
- Scott first said that he got the pythons from a buddy.
- Then, second, Scott says that he got the pythons from a guy named Anthony who had paperwork for the pythons (so, if he got them from his buddy, &/or Anthony, it would appear his buddy is Anthony).
- Then, third, Scott says that he told his buddy to contact Anthony Pappas to get everything resolved (where it appears that his buddy, and Anthony, are two separate people).
- Then, fourth, Scott says his buddy stated that the deal, with snakes/cages, were with a guy named Mike (Mike Cogar?). Confusing since it appeared that it was Anthony who, allegedly, got the pythons from Mike (so, it can appear, once again, that Scott's buddy is Anthony).

It really would be nice if Scott could be less cryptic and could come here to clarify and, clearly, explain everything (buddy, names, timeline, etc.).

 

[hhmoore]

I don't feel like your here to help me anymore.

You already got your money back - what help do you need. Did you ever consider that this isn't all about you, especially at this point? You're a piece of the puzzle, and might be able to help prevent other people from falling prey as you did...but I guess that doesn't matter, since it doesn't help you.

It seems more like you're here to help yourself.

How does it help him? He's not the one that fell for a scam. His efforts aren't for his own benefit.

 

[Robert Walker]

Alicia - If you were to take the last series of posts from Kristi, Nick, Dan, Deb & Harald and put them together, that would basically summarize my answer to your previous question.

This thread has taken us all in many different directions since it started, however, the scammer has left too many paper trails this time. Where these trails end is still to be seen. Scott could be the end, or he could be another piece of the puzzle on the trail to the end. Currently all factual/provable roads intersect at one point, Scott. I am not looking for Scott to be the scammer, but rather I am looking for the scammer. There is a big difference. If Scott is not the scammer, great, come here and help factually point us down the right direction in the road to his "buddy".

Sam has shared some 1st hand experience, so let me give him credit for that, thank you. Sam in contrast has shared a lot of 2nd hand information that he believes to be factual without corroborating evidence. Sam is welcome to believe it or not. Some of us are not so easily ready to. For many of us, this is not our first scammer rodeo.

Lastly. This is a chess match right now between us and the scammer. There is a time and a place to reveal some details. Publicly laying everything on the table at once is a fool's mistake. So is there more behind the scenes work being done, yes.

 

[LauraB]

Whether Scott is, in fact, an unwitting, unwilling party to this fiasco remains to be seen.

The facts are, Scott Fitzwater is the only common denominator, as proven by his own admissions. Scott is the person who completed the trade/deal that resulted in his possession of the stolen snakes. Yes, there are at least two, possibly three; one a female; other people involved.

I may be way out in left field and completely alone in my suspicions, but given the inconsistencies in Scott's texts with Sam and then regarding the lone female albino Dan posted (the text screen shot above), and then the relative ease and speed of Sam's refund .... I gotta wonder.

Just a couple phone calls from a guy (Scott) who knows a guy, who knows a guy ... and then Sam magically has a refund from Kate Ellis?

Just gotta wonder why all the other thieves, scammers and liars we've seen over the years here have not responded quite so quickly and responsibly when contacted by a guy who knows a "buddy" who
knows a guy, but the possessor of the stolen snakes seems really unsure and contradicts himself when explaining who he got the Sam's snakes from or even who is who in the transaction (based on his own texts).

If Scott truly had any interest in this issue, then it would serve him well to make an appearance and explain the inconsistencies in his texts. He was, in fact, here in September, not "years" ago.

Again, I'm not necessarily throwing Scott under the bus ... just would like to see the others exposed, the same as everyone here.

 

[juliasara]

The reciept Sam got when he picked the money up should have some kind of tracking number which can be given to a customer service rep if someone calls and asks where Kate or whoever bought it and they should be able to tell you where the money was sent from. I'm not sure what else they will tell you about the transaction but it should at least tell where Kate sent the money from! I put in Kates known phone number 732-768-6525 and was able to find the transaction but the Web site doesn't give much information as you can see.

Since this has gotten buried and still hasn't been addressed I'll bring it up again. Sam if you simoly post a copy of the reciept from when you picked it up I'd be happy to do the work for you and call and ask where the money was sent from and by who. It may turn out to be an important piece of the puzzle it may not but at this point trying won't hurt and who knows maybe it will bring us closer to these people!

 

[ScottFitzwater54]

Bloods

This whole thing has got out of hand. I dont like my name being involved in this because i knew nothing until Sam contacted me. So lets prove the facts. I traded for the 4 bloods from a guy named Anthony i met at Hamburg reptile show. I then was contacted by Sam explaining that they were his. The Papas brothers from Reading was doing a deal with him and never paid for them. So i contacted who i got them from because i dont want to be part of the drama. Thats not how i do business. I told Sam i would do whatever i could to make sure he got paid. Then i was told Kate was sending the money order. After Sam recieved he told me thanks and all is good now. However i seen people still bringing me up on here. It seems some people have nothing better to do but run there mouth. Sam said he tried to clear my name but no one believes him. This all started with him so i dont know why he would be questioned. Ive been breeding reptiles for over 10 years and years ago this business was great. Now theres too much drama and thats why so many breeders have sold out or downsized.

So again heres the facts:
#1 I got bloods in trade from Anthony at a show.
#2 Sam contacted me saying they were never paid for, there for stolen.
#3 I contacted Anthony and he had a money order sent that day.
#4 Sam told me he recieved and he would let everyone know to clear my name, But know one believed him so i had to post.
#5 So im posting what happened to me, the facts. Hopefully this will be the end of it. Ive had several friends contact me about this and they said the people that have no life like to get involved in others business.

SO I RECIEVED SNAKES THAT WERE NEVER PAID FOR, WHEN I FINALLY FOUND OUT, I DID EVERYTHING I COULD TO HELP SAM, HE DID RECIEVE HIS MONEY SO EVERYONE THAT WAS INVOLED WITH THE DEAL IS HAPPY NOW AND EVERYONE ELSE NEEDS TO RESPECT THAT AND STOP BRINGING MY NAME UP, THANKS.

 

[juliasara]

If the pappas brothers live in reading pa why would they have the snakes sent to fedex in lancaster pa which is at least 45 min away from reading. There is a fedexter in reading. I'm more inclined to believe that they are from elizabethtown like stated before. I noticed Scott you are from elizabethtown pa as well. Isn't the lancaster pa fedex closer to elizabethtown then reading?

 

[hhmoore]

I'm curious about what transpired during your phone conversation with Anthony, who you described as a guy you met at a Hamburg show. Your statement made it sound like your first meeting/dealing was the day you traded for bloods - first, I'm impressed that you had his contact information when it was needed...but, I'm more impressed that you were somehow able to convince them to send Sam the money. Would you give us the basic run down of that call, please?
(You'll note that this is my first post that had anything to do with you, and it's nothing accusatory)

 

[Robert Walker]

I traded for the 4 bloods from a guy named Anthony i met at Hamburg reptile show... The Papas brothers from Reading... So i contacted who i got them from... Then i was told Kate was sending the money order.

So again heres the facts:
#1 I got bloods in trade from Anthony at a show.
#3 I contacted Anthony and he had a money order sent that day.

Scott - thanks for coming here to clear the air. The sooner you can help point us down a factual path towards the scammer, the sooner we are happy to forget your seemingly unfortunate association with the Bloods and move on. A couple of questions for you:

You said you both "met" Anthony AND "trade"d with Anthony at a show. Great. The Hamburg Reptile Expo was Oct 18th.
1. This is were you met him?
2. Did you do the trade at Hamburg or did the trade take place at a subsequent show later on?
3. What business name was he selling under at the show?
4. Did you get a business card from him?
5. We should be able to find him on the show's vendor list correct?

You said:
"I traded for the 4 bloods from a guy named Anthony"
"So i contacted who i got them from"
"I contacted Anthony and he had a money order sent that day"

In one post you say you got them from Anthony, then one sentence later you contacted someone who appears not to be Anthony, then you are back to Anthony, then lastly the facebook image below you are back to someone other than Anthony again.
6. Do you see where the confusion is coming from and how these statements don't match?

Again, we are glad you are here. While this may feel like a pain to have to post, I'm sure it would be a bigger pain not to help out and stop the scammer, the person who traded you stolen snakes and brought your name into this in the first place.

 

[Fangthane]

Scott -

You said:
"I traded for the 4 bloods from a guy named Anthony"
"So i contacted who i got them from"
"I contacted Anthony and he had a money order sent that day"

In one post you say you got them from Anthony, then one sentence later you contacted someone who appears not to be Anthony, then you are back to Anthony, then lastly the facebook image below you are back to someone other than Anthony again.
6. Do you see where the confusion is coming from and how these statements don't match?

With all of the contact that Scott supposedly participated in, there has to be some sort of record of at least some of it. Sam seems to have some reason to believe that Scott interacted with Anthony via texting.

I contacted Scott through facebook and explained the situation to him. He then texted Anthony and Anthony texted Mike.

If that's the case, it should be a simple matter to post screenshots of said text messages. I mean, if I find myself in the middle of a situation like this, I'm gonna be sure to document every little thing that happens on my end. So, Scott, do you still have these texts, or did you decide to delete them?

I'm curious about what transpired during your phone conversation with Anthony, who you described as a guy you met at a Hamburg show

Ah, phone conversations. So many people seem to find it so convenient to go that route. If the initial contact between Scott and "Anthony" - after Scott had spoken to Sam - took place over the phone, I'm sure that Scott's phone's call log would have an entry that roughly corresponds with the timestamps that are shown in the FB conversation. The log generally shows the name/number of the call participant, date and time of call, whether the call was sent or received and sometimes the duration of the call. Please post a picture or screenshot of the log. Again, it seems like that's something that one would want to keep for their own records. As with the alleged text messages, relevant call logs would seem to be an odd thing to choose to delete. After all, as someone who's completely innocent of any intentional wrongdoing, I'm sure Scott would want to help clear his own name. If you need help with any technical aspects of the process, Scott, feel free to ask me. Cell phones are a bit of a hobby of mine.

 

[Python Addiction]

I'm no longer posting more info since its all "2nd hand". If Robert knows all the "1st hand" info then shouldnt he have solved this case already? This is starting to become ridiculous honestly. Some of you have way too much time on your hands to sit benhind a key board all day and post paragraphs upon paragraphs of bs. I know who the "scammer" is and all the info about them, but i'll leave it up to Robert to figure it out since all his info is "1st hand".

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Sam, would you rather not share what you consider to be the case out of some kind of spite than potentially prevent another innocent party from being scammed?